GregTech Has Gone Too far

[Hoho]

with addition of tools by other mods, there is not much point in using vanilla ones. further nerf make them even more useless.
its like punching a concrete: you feel like you`re punching something, and it kinda has a feel to it, but you`re actually doing nothing.

True but there aren't many mods that add tools you can get right after punching down your first tree. Also, just as every other mod it assumes the person who made the modpack had at least half a brain to not combine things that are never meant to be combined

But a lot of things in Gregtech seem like large jumps. I've always believe that in games, you should have many upgrades. For example, the Quarts Grindstone and the Macerator are marvelous. One can do all the work the other does, but there is still a reason to get the other. They both have their values in the game.

What was the first machine you built before GT changed macerator recipe? Ore doubling had become so common place and the machines were so cheap that no one even thought twice about it. Basically you pretty much just ignored the feature entirely as you never spent a meaningful amount of time without a way to double your ore output.

With GT you have several parallel paths to take in the "beginning" and all have valid reasons to take. Plate bender, macerator, extractor/centrifuge, assembly machine and wire machine all allow for producing more with less. Depending on what you lack you could pick any of these to build first. Previously going with macerator was not even a question.

I feel that it would be awesome to have some earlier-game transitions through things. For example, instead of having the electric tools require steel, we could keep those and make weaker ones that can be made with earlier-game resources.

Then again if you'd explore around a bit you'd find enough steel for early-game tools from random chests. In a way GT promotes exploring the world.
Also there is a bronze jackhammer for chewing through stone before acquiring steel

But Gregtech in general has crashes, lots of nerfs and lots of changes to problems that could be solved better.

I'm playing on my custom modpack that has about 100 different mods and I'm updating everything to their latest versions at least 1-2x per week. I've yet to see a single crash caused by GT since the 1.4-something version that FTB "stable" packs use.
Nerfs in general aren't bad. People often don't realize making things harder almost never remove options but add them. E.g picking the first processing machine to build as i described earlier.
As for problems that could be solved better, care to elaborate?

Sorry but I have never heard Slow or any FTB staff state that modders are held in higher regard than the players that the pack & the original challenge maps were aimed

Compare FTB with Technic to understand what I meant putting modders before players.

i could write a decent sized post concerning config`s and how servers work with them, but i`ll just say this:
One simply does not, find a server with altered configs.

Modders aren't required to cater to every need players raise. Remember the upcry about EE2 vs EE3? GT is exactly the same.

 

[Loufmier]

And don't you also need to edit your own configs to be the same or you can't craft? or has that been fixed?

i played ultimate on a server that had mass fab turned on, but since i didnt had such in config, i didnt see th recipe, but i was able to craft it(RP2`s project bench didnt work).
so from what i can tell, you will be able craft a recipe that was altered server-side, but you wont see that altered recipe in NEI.

 

[egor66]

Not sure about you guys but I find this topic very interesting, is refreshing to get both side of a debate in a calm manner, its helps keep your own perspective, rather than having a blinkered one sided version.

Hoho I left all things tekkit related back when the forestry issues were heated to say the least & found FTB while searching for packs unrelated to tekkit, so I dont get your point sry man, if you wish to fill in the gaps go for it or forget it & stay on topic is fine.

 

[whizzball1]

For my future reference:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1892732-lost-on-earth-hardcore-modpack-with-storychallenge-wip/

 

[Chocorate]

whose definition of sex is to stay in the front of our computers hitting ourselves repeatdly.

I'm sorry but I lost it here.

TFC: great survival-based overhaul, preety damn realistic and with new mechanics. This is as real-life that MC gets.
BTW: a general overhaul of everything, with plenty of stuff to do (c'mon, FC managed to encourage caving, make mid game (at least he managed to encourage caving and ladders in caves - wolves are useful now - kind of ironic, isn't it?).
GT: Fun? What's fun? Wait, if it exists, it should be nerfed! Now fun costs a Dragon Egg burned in the Nether Star Cauldron, which costs 7 Nether Stars, uses the HPS as fuel and Melted Iridium as a catalyzer.

Well, TFC is based on overhauling the game and doing a lot of work. You'll also notice that a lot of people who hate Gregtech aren't just crybabies, we actually appreciate the work TFC does.
BTW is a different vanilla. Medium-ish. now if only it was made by KingLemming or Pahimar or someone else awesome and it was on Forge
Gregtech is trying to do what TFC does, and tries to make the game harder, but fails and pisses people off. TFC builds its own stuff. Gregtech goes around and does the same thing except uses stuff that others have already created. Then it mangles those things beyond recognition. Then instead of adding full, detailed content, he prefers to nerf users back into the womb and complain when other mod authors change something that doesn't cater to his mod (which let's remember, is an ADDON) because he doesn't understand priority. With respect, his mod is not #1. It could be a great mod, whatever. IC2 and Forestry and TE and such are #1. then his is an addon. It's #2. Other authors do not bend over backwards for his needs. He changes his mod based on what they do first.[DOUBLEPOST=1374073023][/DOUBLEPOST]

Not sure about you guys but I find this topic very interesting, is refreshing to get both side of a debate in a calm manner, its helps keep your own perspective, rather than having a blinkered one sided version.

Hoho I left all things tekkit related back when the forestry issues were heated to say the least & found FTB while searching for packs unrelated to tekkit, so I dont get your point sry man, if you wish to fill in the gaps go for it if or forget it & stay on topic is fine.

Which is why I'm hoping Jaded can see this and won't lock the thread. I'm also hoping we continue doing a great job policing ourselves and keeping it civil. I've actually learned a lot from this conversation.[DOUBLEPOST=1374073090][/DOUBLEPOST]

i played ultimate on a server that had mass fab turned on, but since i didnt had such in config, i didnt see th recipe, but i was able to craft it(RP2`s project bench didnt work).
so from what i can tell, you will be able craft a recipe that was altered server-side, but you wont see that altered recipe in NEI.

Ah yes, that's what I was talking about. So as long as you know the recipe for the server, it will work. Isn't this a simple matter of making NEI display server stuffs?

 

[Loufmier]

Ah yes, that's what I was talking about. So as long as you know the recipe for the server, it will work. Isn't this a simple matter of making NEI display server stuffs?

in would require for NEI to have access to server`s configs. i have no i dead why it hasnt been done, but i blame technical issues.

 

[tonic316]

What is TFC?

 

[Chocorate]

Remember the upcry about EE2 vs EE3? GT is exactly the same.

lol remember what happened to EE2? xD

What is TFC?

TerraFirmaCraft. pretty old mod, completely changes the game.

 

[Daemonblue]

in would require for NEI to have access to server`s configs. i have no i dead why it hasnt been done, but i blame technical issues.

My guess is that letting NEI have access to the servers configs would cause a higher data overhead since it would query the server every time you look up a recipe using NEI. It could also open up the server to other possible problems due having the config being open to the mod. One route would be if when you entered a server minecraft downloaded configs from that server and had each server's configs in separate folders.

 

[Chocorate]

My guess is that letting NEI have access to the servers configs would cause a higher data overhead since it would query the server every time you look up a recipe using NEI. It could also open up the server to other possible problems due having the config being open to the mod. One route would be if when you entered a server minecraft downloaded configs from that server and had each server's configs in separate folders.

Isn't that sort of how Garry's Mod does it? Like you download plugins and whatever content upon joining?

 

[Loufmier]

My guess is that letting NEI have access to the servers configs would cause a higher data overhead since it would query the server every time you look up a recipe using NEI. It could also open up the server to other possible problems due having the config being open to the mod. One route would be if when you entered a server minecraft downloaded configs from that server and had each server's configs in separate folders.

that looks like a good solution.

 

[egor66]

I am about to install & test this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1878491-ftb-152-nicegregtech-get-rid-of-the-unnecessary-stuff/

Okay its working fine it would seem, but as yet not tested everything, this looks like a good stop-gap for any one that still wants the mod with out the drama.

Now taking bets as to how long before for code to scan for this is implemented & we know what happens then,

23 hours.

 

[Hoho]

Missed a post earlier:

You're not extending a tech tree if you're not adding any "tech".

Reworking a clearly broken techtree is pretty close, though.

Aside from that; it might make sense if you provide a mod like TFC that's basically just a total conversion, but GT is an add-on mod that has to 'play nice' with other mods.

It's an addon only in name. In reality it's more like a total conversion of IC2 or what IC3 should be (minus the rebalancing, of course. That's all his ).

And last but not least; it's friggin' WOOD! It's senseless padding if you nerf such a basic component. You now have to chop down TWICE as many trees. Oh great gameplay gods, please give me more trees to chop, it's my biggest hobby! - said no one ever.

So basically you don't really care about it. Why such a fuss then?

Hoho I left all things tekkit related back when the forestry issues were heated to say the least & found FTB while searching for packs unrelated to tekkit, so I dont get your point sry man, if you wish to fill in the gaps go for it or forget it & stay on topic is fine.

This is not the thread for discussing tekkit, if anyone wants to do that point me to correct one and as what you want to know from me.
I will clarify why I brought the example, though.
Tekkit was made up from mods that players liked and wanted to play. They initially didn't have permissions for all the mods but they chose the wishes of players over the wishes of modders by including the mods anyway.

lol remember what happened to EE2? xD

Yes. On it's own right the mod made sense, combined with others not so much any more. Also when EE3 was created to try to fix that a whole lot of players uproared about the changes and demanded EE2 features in EE3. In the end it's the mod author that decides what features a mod has, not the players. If the modder adds configs then players can change them as they like. GT is by FAR the most configurable mod out there.
A similar example could be brought about steves carts nerfs. Lots of players cried how it would make the mod useless but they were done anyway in the end almost nothing changed in the way players played. I expect the same to happen with GT.

 

[egor66]

Hoho Yeah I knew that it was the reason I left that pack & all who sail in it, was thinking there was one issue you meant, but there were a lot of things going on at that time.

 

[Mjw]

gregtech went too far long ago[DOUBLEPOST=1374076262][/DOUBLEPOST]also how did solar panels turn into GT is incompatible with TiC?

 

[Chocorate]

gregtech went too far long ago[DOUBLEPOST=1374076262][/DOUBLEPOST]also how did solar panels turn into GT is incompatible with TiC?

The thread started with a stupid question that had been solved. We then had a nice, civil discussion about Gregtech's development and general existence.

 

[Colensocon1]

Why dose the FTB Team use GT If most of the community are against it tbh they should just hold a poll for a month or so and see how many people want it someone tried to do this before but if its done by the FTB Team then people will actually listen to it if GT Wins then it stays if it loses then it goes this is the best option to resolve this matter once and for all to be fair why dose greg make things so god damn hard i understand that the FTB Team want GT To make the game last but changing the most basic way of minecraft e.g. compressing ingots using plates for swords only getting 2 planks instead of 4 there are mods for this like terrafirmacraft this whole mod is dedicated to making vanilla harder / more real but overall its a game you don't spend a hour getting your first iron tool its just wrong who agrees?[DOUBLEPOST=1374077174][/DOUBLEPOST]Is Julian Zhou the only one defending GT In this thread?

 

[Hyperme]

Reworking a clearly broken techtree is pretty close, though.

How is the Minecraft tech tree 'clearly broken'? Just because you dislike it, it doesn't make your opinion a fact.

Also since Greg feels the need to change it, it's probably fine. Needing a EletroSawmillEnglishGrammerIngnorerMatic to get 4 planks instead of two doesn't actually add anything to the game.

 

[Hoho]

Why dose the FTB Team use GT If most of the community are against it

Don't confuse vocal minorities with entire userbase.

tbh they should just hold a poll for a month or so and see how many people want it

From what I understand FTB has two different beta modpacks now, with and without GT. I wouldn't be surprised if they both "graduate" into full release some time in future.

to be fair why dose greg make things so god damn hard

He also has an config option for people that don't like hard. For others that do like to put in some actual effort there is the default settings. Also GT isn't anywhere near as hard as people make it out to be.

there are mods for this like terrafirmacraft

alternatives are bad?

Also, punctuation is a thing [DOUBLEPOST=1374077408][/DOUBLEPOST]

How is the Minecraft tech tree 'clearly broken'? Just because you dislike it, it doesn't make your opinion a fact.

Having a simple stone pickaxe be very competitive with metal ones is broken. I also consider getting 4 planks out of a wood block with bare hands a perfect place to change to add more sense of accomplishment to the game.

Though I might need to clarify I'm a guy who also disables infinite water, doesn't use ender storage and disables burning wood for charcoal. Different things for different people. Greg caters to most people through having config options.

Also since Greg feels the need to change it, it's probably fine. Needing a EletroSawmillEnglishGrammerIngnorerMatic to get 4 planks instead of two doesn't actually add anything to the game.

Oppinions are different. The change made my early-game much more enjoyable (started a new map the day 3.10 was released with those vanilla-nerfs).

 

[Loufmier]

Also GT isn't anywhere near as hard as people make it out to be.

alternatives are bad?

people who say that gt is hard, simply doesnt know actual meaning of the word. i believe they seek word "tedious"...

according to gt`s design, alternatives are indeed bad.