GregTech Debate Thread

[Narcisism]

Okay, guys, look. This is getting out of hand. Some of you like GregTech, some of you don't. I get it. But stop swarming every GT related thread with an argument about it. Put it all here. Keep it out of the other threads, please.

KEEP THINGS CIVIL.I'm not a moderator, but I did start this thread, and if it degenerates into insults, it looks bad on me. So KEEP IT CIVIL. I will report any posts that start taking things too personal, and I'm sure that the mods will be keeping a close eye on the thread themselves, too.

My opinions on it:

Spoiler

For me, GregTech has goods and bads. I like most of his new stuff (Lightning Rods, Fusion Reactor, etc) and I LOVE the Matter Fabricator, but a lot of his recipe changes bug me. They make it harder to get started with things, and some of them are just unnecessary. Like the compressed blocks thing. The steel to make the basic drill is probably the worst part, to me. Steel is roughly as strong as diamond (maybe a little more or a bit less), so it makes no sense to me that a drill made with steel would be only as strong as an iron pick. It's just expensive for the sake of being expensive. As for the macerator, I don't really like that I have to wait for so long to start playing with the mod. I've played vanilla for FAR to long to be forced to play it for that long. I know he's trying to get a tech tree going, and make the mods more balanced with each other, but it just means I have to wait longer to get to the fun parts. And even then, I need to go to the nether before I can do anything worth doing. Now, I'm probably a minority in this, but my computer tends to lag to death when I get into the nether, so that's REALLY hard for me.

And yes, I am aware that you can turn off recipes in the config, but I don't necessarily want to have to fiddle with configs to turn off changes to other mods.

 

[Mason11987]

I don't understand why people bother to talk about how bad Gregtech is. There are other mods in the pack I don't like. I just click disable. Literally every person who has complained about gregtech on this forum could have disabled it faster then it took for you (or others) to write posts like this. It's one click and done.

 

[Narcisism]

My thing is that, like I said up there, I actually like some of the stuff from GregTech. Most of his custom stuff is amazing. The Matter Fabricator is awesome, and the Lightning Rod is welcome. The Fusion Reactor is great, and so are the new storage units. I just don't like the changes he made to other mods, and disabling those in the config is a lot harder than one click, because you have to try to decipher everything.

 

[Mason11987]

It's kind of ridiculous to not only expect the FTB folks to set this pack up. But also expect the gregtech maker to make something you like AND make everything editable (which is a ridiculous amount of extra work) AND also make it editable in a way that you like. Just take some time and learn, it's not all that difficult, or just post asking for a config file set up a certain way, I'm sure many other people have edited it in a way you'd like. You should be lucky that you even have the option to configure it how you like so you can get the features you like and not the features you don't. Maybe you should demand a refund from gregtech for not getting the experience you paid for.

 

[Mikey_R]

Changing the config is easy and not that hard, plus, it's really just a one time thing. Once you have it setup as you want you could even copy the config file somewhere else and just copy it back when the pack updates (assuming nothing new is added to Gregtech).

Ultimately though, it's Slowpoke's decision as it's his map so he gets the deciding factor on what he wants out of it. I will also mention that, by default, the harder macerator recipe is off, so you really can't complain about that one.

 

[Narcisism]

Actually, it's really not all that hard to set up a config. Forge has built-in functionality for it. And even if it were, the names of each "setting" in the config are completely customizable. They could very easily be less confusing with very little work. All it would take is changing the defined text for it to something more easily read.

And as I was looking through the config for an example, I can actually prove my point. He did just that. The config is easier now. The bit before the = is just a string to be displayed.

EDIT: Last I looked at the config before now, it was a LOT more confusing to try and read. You could figure it out, but the names of each line weren't really clear on what was what.

Telling me that I'm lucky that there IS a config is just wrong. These days, configs are almost required, unless your mod is VERY simple. Every mod that adds more than one or two items uses a config, because otherwise things just get insane. This goes double if a mod messes with other mods, as GregTech does.

Also, the point of this thread isn't about whether we can turn off GT or not. It's about what we like and don't like about GT, so we can get everything out of the other threads.

Maybe you should demand a refund from gregtech for not getting the experience you paid for.

There's really no need to get snarky.

 

[ICountFrom0]

Saying "just turn it off" is a polite way to say that you have no argument for the inclusion of the mod in the pack. It represents nothing more then abject surrender.

The discussion is not "can it be turned off or changed" the question is, "is gregtech, as it exists in the pack now, good for the pack."

 

[warfighter67]

I have to agree with the OP. Gregtech adds a ton of cool things but tampering with an already-existing mod (other than the matterfab.. makes uu-matter WAY more balanced. Though I set mine to require 2.5mil EU instead of 16.6mil-the mere fact that it needs scrap to run is a good balancing factor to uu-matter) kind of dwells on me. GT also adds a bunch of artificial difficulty. just making things take tons of time and being expensive for the sake of being expensive doesnt add difficulty. The centrifuge is a really nice concept but things take way too long in there. It makes it almost impossible to use on SSP unless you always play, and if you need it to progress in a build on SMP, you may as well put the ingredients in before you head off to school/work so you can get some actual play-time in when you can.

 

[ICountFrom0]

Let me ask, why should tin blocks only be possible after diamonds?

Gregtech makes you get diamond before letting you get tin blocks.

 

[Omicron]

Wait what?

GregTech requires you to use a compressor to make tin blocks out of tin ingots. In no way, shape or form do you need diamonds for that. And for the reverse, stick them in a furnace. No diamonds required either.

ALSO, the expensive macerator recipe is turned off by default in FTB, so even if you needed a macerator to make blocks (for some really strange and illogical reason) you would still not need any diamonds when using the FTB modpack.

Gotta love it when people repeat rumors without doing any research themselves...

 

[ICountFrom0]

But it only compresses tin from ic2, and to get that you need to use a macerator, from diamond.

And again, pointing to the feature being off by default, is only saying that the feature is something bad for FTB and that Slowpoke was smart enough to see it in the first place.

I do not judge the mod on what is turned on or turned off. I judge it on what it tries to do.

This is not a rumor, this is my findings that I then reported, and posted in the bugs thread.

 

[noskk]

But it only compresses tin from ic2, and to get that you need to use a macerator, from diamond.

And again, pointing to the feature being off by default, is only saying that the feature is something bad for FTB and that Slowpoke was smart enough to see it in the first place.

I do not judge the mod on what is turned on or turned off. I judge it on what it tries to do.

This is not a rumor, this is my findings that I then reported, and posted in the bugs thread.

hmm, then I suggest you to report it at GregTech forum so he'll change it or do something about it..

 

[ICountFrom0]

I think the choice of IC2 tin instead of ore dictionary tin is intentional, and I judge him for it, until he comes back and fixes it. Notice that all the compressed block recipies are IC2 or GregTech ore, none of them are forge ore?

 

[Narcisism]

I think the choice of IC2 tin instead of ore dictionary tin is intentional, and I judge him for it, until he comes back and fixes it. Notice that all the compressed block recipies are IC2 or GregTech ore, none of them are forge ore?

Y'know, I didn't even know it worked that way. Yeah, there's going to be a TON of features that I turn off, then, for the City of Industry's server >.>

 

[DrCeph]

My first encounter with Gregtech (GT) left me confused when a bunch of recipes had changed. I was determined to give it a fair go so I had some playtesting on 'vanilla FTB' with GT enabled.

What I found was that with GT installed I started to tend towards some of the other mods for similar functionality, such as the TE induction smelter and pulveriser. Which surprised me as my worlds tend to be pretty EU heavy and MJ poor when it comes to the tech that I use.

After thinking about it, I realised the biggest reason for it though wasn't due to the increased cost of things under GT as I thought it would be. The reason was the added complication - things seemed relative complicated to create, especially considerng other mods hadn't been complexerised in the same fashion. Considering item management already gets unwieldy in tech modpacks I found GT just pushing the envelope too far and would revert to the simpler alternatives in other mods.

My take home was that I felt as though GT added difficulty by way of MMO-style grind. That might be a good thing for a SMP server but I think I'll generally turn it off for SSP.

 

[makeshiftwings]

My experience with GT so far is that it might be cool IF you were in a game that only used IndustrialCraft AND you wanted to make sure you couldn't do anything industrial until you had played vanilla for quite a while and built up a lot of resources. The only real point of the changes seem to be that Greg thinks access to IC is "too easy" and wants to make the player play vanilla for much longer before getting to use any of the new toys. Thus, the mod seems counterintuitive in a mod pack that is basically all about giving the player lots of new toys. It also seems against the spirit of the guidelines in mod suggestions, saying that mods shouldn't be included that duplicate functionality from another mod more easily, since BC, RC, Factorization, and especially TE duplicate much of GregTech-IC but make it much easier. I think the original IC is pretty well balanced, and has been enjoyed by a lot of people, and I always saw people using both IC and BC style gadgets on servers that had both. Now it seems people will avoid IC and just use the easier machines from TE. I never really saw a huge complaint that IC was too overpowered; at least nothing like the complaints that EE2 was overpowered. IC already felt balanced with all the other mods; now it just seems like added weight.

 

[ICountFrom0]

I think for my next point I shall ask, "Was Steve's carts unbalanced?"

 

[Enigmius1]

The thought occurred to me that maybe GregTech isn't ideal for FTB simply on the grounds of how it polarizes the community. It's not like EE2 where everything was above and beyond everything else. Someone may have preferred to accumulate wealth with energy collectors and anti-matter relays, but they still knew what a quarry is. They still used the same recipes for machines and tools as everyone else. I could talk on a forum about a particular machine block and not wonder how many people would understand what I was talking about because group A had the same one as me but group B had something completely different because they had EE2 installed. In the short term, telling people to alter the config or disable the mod is a quick and easy way to get them up and running with a mod pack that they want to play, but if it wasn't acceptable to have to take that line with EE2/Tekkit, I don't see it being any different with GT/FTB. If throngs of people are disabling or radically altering the config, the mod probably doesn't belong in the pack.

There was a thread here earlier that was locked because it derailed into another GregTech debate and I don't blame the mod for locking it, but those kinds of derails and debates are never going to go away. It's like 2 different packs are on offer and there can be only one. Sooner or later someone is going to lose their head...

 

[SeniLiX]

I am one of those, few?, who thinks Gregtech vastly improves the pack as a whole.
It does exactly what it's supposed to do, it expands the tech tree in IC 2 by a great deal, making it harder to obtain your next machine.

The idea of the mod is not to remove stuff from IC2 it only changes the means to obtain them.

• You may need diamonds for a Macerator, so what? That doesn't mean a furnace won't work anymore to cook up raw ores. Who says you just have to get double ores right away because a mod has that feature.

• One other thing I see people whining about is the need for steel in a drill. The drill is one of the items considered endgame, why? Because once you have it, you won't ever make a new one (unless you die) If the GT author simply upped the costs to make it, so be it, but incorporating another mod from the same "pack" is a true genius solution.

• Lastly I see people complain about solar panels. What happens once you got enough "free" power? Why should you make a Geothermal generator? Why should you make a normal generator? Why should you make a windmill? A Watermill? Even why on EARTH would you even consider making a nuclear reactor?! GT improves upon this. If you want "free" power you have to actually work for it. I am even looking forward to when the new version of GT is implemented. Especially before they add RP back in. Those RP watermills will just be the "standard" generator otherwise.

So, grab your pickaxe and get to work you lazy bums!

 

[makeshiftwings]

I guess I would like to know the point of using the GregTech nerfs in a modpack with so many alternatives: do people who like the GT nerfs actually plan on building all those expensive IC machines, or do they just plan on using TE for everything instead? If you like the solar panel nerf, do you actually plan to build solar panels at all, or do you just plan on switching to infinite lava? If you like the macerator nerf, are you actually going to build a macerator with that recipe, or are you just going to use one of the other dozen machines that double ores? If the only point of the recipe nerf is to make it expensive enough that everyone will use an alternative machine instead, then it seems silly to even include the IC machine at all.