Greg Tech opinion discussions go here
- Thread starter Jadedcat
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@Alex Cubed Wrong forum/post man, that belongs in bug reports but i would check Greg's Post first.
Also im with Mdyo mostly, i believe he should have just went with it and put GregTech in the Incompatible mods list with the reasoning behind it (That the author set it up to crash). Greg needs to get over himself, seriously, nerfing wood affects Tinkers Construct's TechTree. So if Mdyo wants it to work and he even does the Work to make it work with his techtree then maybe Gregtech should just not be included in the pack, if only because it is obvious that Greg does not care about the end user and his Childish Antics will likely cause more problems for FTB Users.
Also im with Mdyo mostly, i believe he should have just went with it and put GregTech in the Incompatible mods list with the reasoning behind it (That the author set it up to crash). Greg needs to get over himself, seriously, nerfing wood affects Tinkers Construct's TechTree. So if Mdyo wants it to work and he even does the Work to make it work with his techtree then maybe Gregtech should just not be included in the pack, if only because it is obvious that Greg does not care about the end user and his Childish Antics will likely cause more problems for FTB Users.
Which shows that GT will still be in modpacks. That code is gone and work on the 152wgt (wgt stands for with GregTech, btw) is ongoing. The only definite thing is that TC and GT will NOT be in the same pack, EVER. Mdiyo has asked that TC not to be distributed in any pack that contains GT.
English no my first language so forgive the mistakes.
One of the things i like in Minecraft is choices, even more is to have several of them provided by wonderful people who dedicate their free time into making mods for this game.
Now, installing a mod that destroys those choices is not fun at all, even worse is implementing code to make the game crash because in the modder mind all other mods are doing it wrong, and that is totally egocentric, at least is the idea im getting here.
GregTech had nothing productive or challenging at this point, he just waits for other mods to do their work so he can undo it, doesnt seem alot of fun, because the point of having mods in the game is to have fun, and choices, for me, and go deeper into those undo's as the core of the game shows that GT is what it is, a "virus".
I like GT in the current FTB packs, but the new versions are just shameful, how can a obvios talent guy fall into "darkness" like that? Blows my mind, TConstruct is a very good mod, adds flavour, creativity and choices, just like most of the other mods, and doesnt break my game when i use it with other mods, cant go wrong here, can i?
One of the things i like in Minecraft is choices, even more is to have several of them provided by wonderful people who dedicate their free time into making mods for this game.
Now, installing a mod that destroys those choices is not fun at all, even worse is implementing code to make the game crash because in the modder mind all other mods are doing it wrong, and that is totally egocentric, at least is the idea im getting here.
GregTech had nothing productive or challenging at this point, he just waits for other mods to do their work so he can undo it, doesnt seem alot of fun, because the point of having mods in the game is to have fun, and choices, for me, and go deeper into those undo's as the core of the game shows that GT is what it is, a "virus".
I like GT in the current FTB packs, but the new versions are just shameful, how can a obvios talent guy fall into "darkness" like that? Blows my mind, TConstruct is a very good mod, adds flavour, creativity and choices, just like most of the other mods, and doesnt break my game when i use it with other mods, cant go wrong here, can i?
Thermal Expansion also fixes bronze, you have to edit both GT and TE configs to really change bronze. Incidentally, TE also already has a config for preventing regular turtles from breaking blocks. I don't find it very likely that Greg would do anything with Thaumcraft or Computercraft. If you're expecting computers to require data orbs or metal aspect to require iridium, those changes would more than likely come from the authors of Computercraft and Thaumcraft. Greg seems to be busy enough developing the technology version of terrafirmacraft. That's basically where he seems to be going with his mod.
...and why is that needed? Is mining considered an exploit as well?
No need to apologize for your english. It was easier to read than most of the english speaking people I come across (including myself). I wouldn't say GT has nothing productive, it actually has quite a bit. I enjoyed GT, for a while. But it just started sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. It started as an IC2 addon and developed into a overhaul wannabe. I really wish Greg would cut the cord and make it an independent overhaul. I think it would be a blast and I would love to play it. The thing that started pushing me away from GT is the changes to other mods. I wanted gregtech for the late game stuff. i didn't want it to require me to use steel instead of iron for a flint and steel. And I sure as hell didn't want it to cut wood production in half at the beginning of the game. Right now, the reason I will never use GT again is trust. I can't trust Greg. What if he comes across something else he doesn't like and decides he'll get his point across by corrupting my world? Its a risk I'm not willing to take. Greg has already shown he cares for no one outside of his userbase. I suggest everyone else do the same.[DOUBLEPOST=1374188786][/DOUBLEPOST]
I honestly can't think of a good reason for it..... Maybe an anti-xray stance or something?
There are several ore disguise plugins in bukkit aimed at limiting the effectiveness of x-ray mods/textures in largely vanilla settings. Given that iridium ore (or maybe it was sheldonite, don't remember) was ridiculously easy to find when it mistakenly generated in the nether (which I think is fixed) and mystcraft worlds, disguising it seems like a good idea. Quarries still dig it up and they become visible when you cause a local block update (by mining that block or a neighboring block).
Well you're no Greg.
He touched vanilla stuffs to the least. I'd be no surprised if he mess with CC or TC any day since is Gregtech we're talking about. (and personally I'd like to see him do so lol)
GT is a good idea to begin with but he just made it too hardcore.
So it's another case of hurting the common users because of a few exceptions? Not everyone cares about x-ray, and those that do don't care about cheating anyway, so they could just as well spawn items using NEI.
The post in question likely got booped by the mod mallet. Since that individual is apparently on my ignore list, I wouldn't be able to say why it got booped, but because he is on my ignore list, I can say I'm not surprised.
First thing to say, I AM a GregTech fan, there is no need to tell me that. If you visit GT thread on IC² forum you know that. I've played with GT since its first release, V1.0, with the crappy coded lightning rod and will continue to play with GT until it dies.
My Opinion as both GT hardcore mode fan AND a liker of TC modular tools :
GregTech indeed DOES change some mod recipes, however directly those are only three : BuildCraft Quarry, Forestry Bronze (3+1 = 4 ratio can be adjusted back using both forestry and GT configs) and Universal Electricity plates (to use GT plates instead, a buff). All these changes can be disabled via the mighty config.
All other mod changes related to GregTech (Modular Power Suits, Advanced Solar Panels, MineFactory Reloaded ...) are all made by their owners to increase compatiblity with GT tech tree when it is installed.
Recently, Greg decided to change vanilla behavior, to extend early tech progression, probably knowing this does indirectly affect other mods, including Tinker Construct.
The change that caused all this pointless war was the Wood Logs, planks and sticks nerf. That also can be turned off via config.
There is no reason for Tinker Construct to overwrite GregTech wood nerf, since you can disable that nerf completely using the config.
mDiyo could have been more friendly and giving this message some times when the game starts up when it detects GT 3.11+ :
"Tinker Construct heavily depends on wood, disabling GregTech Wood changes is advised."
We all know that Greg responded radically, bringing up a quick solution to the issue.
It was not the best solution but an effective one, as simply talking wasn't very effective, from the previously issue with TC FortuneSmelt and GT StorageBlock Recycling.
By the way the issue doesn't seem to be completely fixed as mDiyo added back the anti-wood nerf code, with a config. (http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120975#post120975)
However i can say that it is pointless, redundant and conflicting.
Pointless and redundant as the nerf can already be turned off using GT config.
Conflicting as GT is the one that did the nerf, so only it should have the config to control it.
I will continue to use both as long there are ways to do so.
Reading all the hate towards Greg is fun, i'm "eating popcorn" since the start of this entire drama, about two days ago.
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to hate someone for something that didn't even affect you in the first case?
I bet only a few, really few FTB users were affected by Greg's crash. The majority uses outdated GT and TC versions. Not to mention that the official pack will never have such versions on them.
Many here are just flaming greg because they hate something about his mod or wants to find some kind of "justice" on a place that never had.
I don't get what problem people have with the mod, if it is the most flexible mod ever seen on the modding community. There is no need for others modders to fuzz with it. Itself can fix any "issue" regarding any changes.
If you read this entirely, this is just my opinion, and not to forget that i am not a FTB user.
My Opinion as both GT hardcore mode fan AND a liker of TC modular tools :
GregTech indeed DOES change some mod recipes, however directly those are only three : BuildCraft Quarry, Forestry Bronze (3+1 = 4 ratio can be adjusted back using both forestry and GT configs) and Universal Electricity plates (to use GT plates instead, a buff). All these changes can be disabled via the mighty config.
All other mod changes related to GregTech (Modular Power Suits, Advanced Solar Panels, MineFactory Reloaded ...) are all made by their owners to increase compatiblity with GT tech tree when it is installed.
Recently, Greg decided to change vanilla behavior, to extend early tech progression, probably knowing this does indirectly affect other mods, including Tinker Construct.
The change that caused all this pointless war was the Wood Logs, planks and sticks nerf. That also can be turned off via config.
There is no reason for Tinker Construct to overwrite GregTech wood nerf, since you can disable that nerf completely using the config.
mDiyo could have been more friendly and giving this message some times when the game starts up when it detects GT 3.11+ :
"Tinker Construct heavily depends on wood, disabling GregTech Wood changes is advised."
We all know that Greg responded radically, bringing up a quick solution to the issue.
It was not the best solution but an effective one, as simply talking wasn't very effective, from the previously issue with TC FortuneSmelt and GT StorageBlock Recycling.
By the way the issue doesn't seem to be completely fixed as mDiyo added back the anti-wood nerf code, with a config. (http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120975#post120975)
However i can say that it is pointless, redundant and conflicting.
Pointless and redundant as the nerf can already be turned off using GT config.
Conflicting as GT is the one that did the nerf, so only it should have the config to control it.
I will continue to use both as long there are ways to do so.
Reading all the hate towards Greg is fun, i'm "eating popcorn" since the start of this entire drama, about two days ago.
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to hate someone for something that didn't even affect you in the first case?
I bet only a few, really few FTB users were affected by Greg's crash. The majority uses outdated GT and TC versions. Not to mention that the official pack will never have such versions on them.
Many here are just flaming greg because they hate something about his mod or wants to find some kind of "justice" on a place that never had.
I don't get what problem people have with the mod, if it is the most flexible mod ever seen on the modding community. There is no need for others modders to fuzz with it. Itself can fix any "issue" regarding any changes.
If you read this entirely, this is just my opinion, and not to forget that i am not a FTB user.
I've made my views clear in other threads, it's a shame because I like some of the things Gregtech adds but his behaviour, both in terms of the pointless nerfs and as a person, are becoming increasingly problematic. I like Greg's toys but no toy in the world is worth putting up with a child as petulent as Greg, I say it's time to drop the mod like the bad habit it is and find a replacement.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't hate this person Greg. And it didn't impact me directly, but I do have a reason for speaking out here. I don't want to ever be effected by such a thing, so I am hoping to add to the chorus of people requesting that mods by any person who would do such a thing would not feature in as many FTB modpacks as possible. I feel this is perfectly justified, and I am speaking for my own interest here, and to maximise my own (potential) enjoyment by hoping that a sufficient number of voices on this side of the issue will ward off including mods by unpredictable, "dangerous" types who may insert damage into the game.
It's not the least bit hypocritical, which would be trashing someone for doing something that you, yourself, do. I'm not criticising Greg for doing something that I, also, do. For that matter, I'm not even necessarily here to criticise him for what he did at all (even though I did do this). My main motivation is to vote with my voice (and yes, I know there's no vote-tallying here), and hope that his mod will not be in the modpack that I want to use. I'm being selfish, but it's all about a game, isn't it?
And I am willing to revisit the issue if he were to state, clearly and without any reservations, that he would never do such a thing again in his mod for any reason. As I said, I don't hate this person, about whom I know practically nothing. I just know what he's done in this one case, which shows what he's capable of in the future, a potential future I don't want to partake in, regardless of whether I experienced the PAST instance or not. I saw other people get burned by the hot stove, I don't need to have been burned by it myself to request that it be turned off.
I would say a great many ftb users have been affected by this whole episode. Wyld was about ready to release version 0.9 og wgt and ngt, but he made the mistake of updating to the versions in his test pack to the ones that had and triggered Greg's crash code. The release has been put on hold so the issue can get straightened out. So while no one using an unmodified ftb pack was hit with the crash, we have to wait longer for the 0.9 pack now. And if you have been reading the forums you know that there are many 1.5.2 players that absolutely cannot wait for each new release. So its quite telling that people are saying "OMG, Greg put code in that kills minecraft on startup" rather than "OMG, Greg's war is setting back 0.9 by days!" If most people here think the crash code is a much bigger deal that the 0.9 release, then they must be terribly outraged by it. mDiyo is not blameless in this war, but that does not excuse what Greg did.
Honestly, the crash code was pretty damned childish of Greg. I could understand if it were an honest mistake that got leaked into a release version, sometimes shit like that just plain old happens, but doing it intentionally? Yeaaaah, no. About the whole "its configurable" argument, that is true. However, a lot of your "average Joe" FTB players don't have the know-how or inclination to go rooting around inside their configs to fix or change things. Since Joe Average FTB player is who the pack(s) is(are) largely being geared towards, it makes sense that something like changing one of those core, foundational mechanics of Minecraft itself would be seen in a very negative light, even if its totally configurable.
Honestly, I'd like to see...or make, if/when I get the time and inclination, a tool that makes configuring mods a hell of a lot simpler for everyone, from your know-next-to-nothing users to your advanced users. It'd solve a lot of this bullshit; just pack it in with the FTB Launcher, or have it as an aside on the site in a "Useful Tools" section or something.
Honestly, I'd like to see...or make, if/when I get the time and inclination, a tool that makes configuring mods a hell of a lot simpler for everyone, from your know-next-to-nothing users to your advanced users. It'd solve a lot of this bullshit; just pack it in with the FTB Launcher, or have it as an aside on the site in a "Useful Tools" section or something.
So very few people even experienced an issue that everyone and their dog is outraged about. Greg made a bad move, then he fixed it. I do believe we can move on from this now.
Again, speaking for myself, I'm hardly "outraged". But it doesn't matter how many people experienced it. To me, the "moving on" part is more important, and specifically, the worry that he can/will do the same thing again in the future. I'm more worried about him slipping in more deliberate crash material that works its way into a FTB modpack release. Or multiple releases. What's stopping him? He's demonstrated the ability and the will to do it. Based on his modding abilities, he's surely capable of inserting an even more devious, harder-to-find crash, or series of crashes, to combat other mod(s) he doesn't like.
I think moving on is best served by avoiding this obviously high-risk mod.
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