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Droideka30

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Jul 29, 2019
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It happened. He fixed it. It's done. And though it may sound cheesy, I think that somewhere within his nerf obsessed heart he feels sorry for what he's done.

Actually, he hasn't fixed it. The code is still there, currently inactive, but ready to be activated by Greg the next time someone else does to his mod what he does to everyone else's. As I've said before, Greg took his finger off the trigger, but the gun is still loaded.

As for him "feeling sorry," I don't know him personally, and I can't read his mind. But judging by his actions and his posts on the ic2 forums, he is extrodinarily arrogant and is almost gloating about crashing the game.
 

Zephyranthes

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Jul 29, 2019
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Has anyone started a count yet on how many people have joined the forums today or yesterday just to voice their opinion (negative or otherwise) on this thread? It seems like every other post I see on this thread is by someone who joined today.

Registered just to leave my opinion.

The crashing thing is totally unacceptable, and the "nerfs" and changes have become just absurd anymore. Pointless extra steps and extravagantly long times that serve no purpose other than making it take longer to do the same thing every patch have gotten out of hand. Maybe Greg should try creating and implementing new and interesting ideas about new machines, ores, or create new things that make the game more diverse and interesting, instead of changing everyone else's mod, vanilla, and adding in extra excessive steps that do nothing to actually enhance the gaming experience other than adding how much time it takes to complete. Going from 1.0.1 Ultimate to 1.1.0 confused me, as the plate bending machine served absolutely zero purpose other than... complicating the process and adding time and energy to do the same thing as before, it wasn't interesting or fun at all. No one drives past 15 of the same grocery stores just to go to one that's 4 hours away and then turns around and declares themselves "hardcore shoppers", everyone else with a clue just knows they are crazy.

I haven't even played a pack with TC in it yet, but i'm done using GT in any future packs past 1.4.7. I don't need some control freak who feels it's ok to dictate what everyone else's mods are allowed to do or not do, even including how vanilla itself operates. We can save Greg some work by seeing that no one is using his mod anymore, so he doesn't need to worry about overriding other mod recipes.
 

Mahoka

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Jul 29, 2019
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It seems to me that if this is devolving into a cross-mod edit war that new standards should be set that do not allow mods to overwrite anything at all in other mods. This would of course mean sweeping changes to GregTech, but it is doable. As I understand it, Greg changes recipes because he wants to set a harder curve of progression than your average mod. I believe he could achieve this without editing recipes from other mods by changing his own recipes to simply require more material. Since it is in the recent discussion, I'll use the "wood nerf" as an example: Greg made logs only yield two planks unless you have made his saw item, which makes them once again grant 4. Alternatively, he could create a new wood item, say "Processed planks" and add a 2 plank -> 1 processed plank recipe, or 1 plank + saw -> 1 processed plank. Using the processed plank in his own recipes sets the curve where he wants it for his mod without affecting other mods the user has loaded.
 

profanity pony

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Jul 29, 2019
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just spent a few hours reading this whole topic, then discussed it with a few people i know (not all of them being friends of mine), then i tested if i even had an account, and i think i know exactly what side i choose, the one that didn't distribute illegal code...
 

Flipz

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Jul 29, 2019
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Honestly, I'd like to see...or make, if/when I get the time and inclination, a tool that makes configuring mods a hell of a lot simpler for everyone, from your know-next-to-nothing users to your advanced users. It'd solve a lot of this bullshit; just pack it in with the FTB Launcher, or have it as an aside on the site in a "Useful Tools" section or something.

I second this notion so much. :) I cannot emphasize how much I support such a utility.

I mean, heck, a sub-menu under the options menu or main menu would be more than enough. Simple, intuitive, and, I hope (plenty of experience in coding but next to no experience in Java) easy to code. (Disclaimer: I have no idea if it would be possible to actually edit the configs while the game is running, even if no world is loaded; if not, it should be relatively simple to warn the user that Minecraft will have to be re-started to apply the changes, and/or close Minecraft directly when the user saves the changes to the configs.)


Isn't that what GT does?
Well yes, but not to that extent.
The word missing from the end of this statement is 'yet'. :p

In all honesty? I like the fact that GregTech exists. It is a thing, and if I want to use such a thing (and sometimes I do), GregTech allows me to do so. That part is good. If I want to do something different, however, GregTech essentially tells me 'no, you must do things my way instead.' That part is not good. Plain and simple. (Note that the same would apply if I wanted to create my own mod--some of the things it adds (like iridium, the centrifuge, etc.) are useful resources and ideas that other mod-makers can build off of in a positive way, perfectly demonstrating the good that comes of collaboration...but when GT FORCES the mods and the players to do things "only my way", then the whole experience is soured for everyone involved.)

A lot of the defenders of GregTech miss/ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who are exposed to GregTech DON'T choose to use it and DON'T have the ability to edit the configs to their liking--even disregarding multiplayer, few people downloading the pack for the first time would have any clue about GregTech and its changes and configs. People turn to FtB because they AREN'T experienced in downloading and installing their own mods, and are looking into a way to experience Minecraft in a new way without having to spend a week browsing the Minecraft forums downloading mods and ironing out conflicts and bugs. To put it bluntly, if I had been manually putting together a bunch of mods back in the days when I first discovered Feed the Beast, I would not have installed GregTech, and I'm sure that many others feel the same way. Am I thankful that I've been exposed to some of the ideas of GregTech? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't my choice, and that I didn't have the choice to configure anything about GregTech until months later when I finally stumbled across USEFUL information about the subject--note that the config itself is needlessly cryptic and pretty much unreadable without outside assistance.

I'm sad that I can't trust GregTech not to burn me--I actually liked the change to steel in the electric tool recipes, and despite my initial trepidation, I've warmed to the idea of Iridium, the Industrial Centrifuge, and some of the other elements Greg has added. The problem is, Greg goes too far in other areas, and with malicious code included in his mod I simply can't risk keeping it installed. He's proven he doesn't care about the end user, nor about any sort of casual Minecraft player who's not into his personal brand of ultimate hardcore experience.

Bottom line: GregTech caters itself to a very specific audience. FtB, on the other hand, tries to cater to a widespread audience. They've parted ways--either GregTech needs to have a dedicated pack (which I would probably love to death, given how much I enjoy the pack dedicated to DivineRPG!), or else it needs to leave FtB entirely. Regardless, GregTech has clearly lost its place in the packs that are dedicated to a more mainstream audience.
 

Bellaabzug21

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Jul 29, 2019
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Actually, he hasn't fixed it. The code is still there, currently inactive, but ready to be activated by Greg the next time someone else does to his mod what he does to everyone else's. As I've said before, Greg took his finger off the trigger, but the gun is still loaded.

As for him "feeling sorry," I don't know him personally, and I can't read his mind. But judging by his actions and his posts on the ic2 forums, he is extrodinarily arrogant and is almost gloating about crashing the game.

It was fixed when he removed the trigger. As long as it does not cause the game to crash, it's not really causing a problem.
And let's be honest, it's not that much code. He could add it back in whenever he wants to.
As for the posts, I don't really regular the ic2 forums and wouldn't notice such things.
 

Droideka30

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Jul 29, 2019
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It seems to me that if this is devolving into a cross-mod edit war that new standards should be set that do not allow mods to overwrite anything at all in other mods. This would of course mean sweeping changes to GregTech, but it is doable. As I understand it, Greg changes recipes because he wants to set a harder curve of progression than your average mod. I believe he could achieve this without editing recipes from other mods by changing his own recipes to simply require more material. Since it is in the recent discussion, I'll use the "wood nerf" as an example: Greg made logs only yield two planks unless you have made his saw item, which makes them once again grant 4. Alternatively, he could create a new wood item, say "Processed planks" and add a 2 plank -> 1 processed plank recipe, or 1 plank + saw -> 1 processed plank. Using the processed plank in his own recipes sets the curve where he wants it for his mod without affecting other mods the user has loaded.
That seems a bit drastic... Not to mention, it would break almost every addon to any mod, not just GregTech. And the core reason Greg nerfed wood wasn't for added difficulty; it was to make people have to use his industrial sawmill for decent wood output.
 

Flipz

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Jul 29, 2019
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That seems a bit drastic... Not to mention, it would break almost every addon to any mod, not just GregTech. And the core reason Greg nerfed wood wasn't for added difficulty; it was to make people have to use his industrial sawmill for decent wood output.

Exactly, it's a "you must do this MY WAY!! MINE!!" sort of mentality that ruins it for everyone else. If the Industrial Sawmill did something unique, that would be one thing; this, on the other hand, was simply a way to make player HAVE to use his machines if they wanted any sort of decent wood production.
 

Dee_Twenty

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Jul 29, 2019
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And the core reason Greg nerfed wood wasn't for added difficulty; it was to make people have to use his industrial sawmill for decent wood output.

Which just makes it even worse, because instead of the change being about rebalancing something broken or just adding extra challenge it's purely about vanity. "Nobody's using my sawmill! Why isn't anyone using my sawmill? It's awesome! How can I get people to use my awesome sawmill..? I know! I'll nerf the output of the vanilla plank recipe, then people will have no choice but to use my sawmill!"
 

Droideka30

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Jul 29, 2019
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It was fixed when he removed the trigger. As long as it does not cause the game to crash, it's not really causing a problem.
If I have a handgun in my pocket (and ammunition in my other pocket), and I jut shot someone with it yesterday, would you feel safe around me just because I haven't loaded it yet?

As for the posts, I don't really regular the ic2 forums and wouldn't notice such things.
I'll paraphrase them for you:
"mDiyo deserved that crash for messing with my mod. I don't care if you take my mod out of any modpack. My TRUE fanbase will continue to support me. Who cares if I crash your game? If you don't agree with me then shut up and get out."
Sorry I can't link you to the actual posts.
 

Bellaabzug21

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Jul 29, 2019
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If I have a handgun in my pocket (and ammunition in my other pocket), and I jut shot someone with it yesterday, would you feel safe around me just because I haven't loaded it yet?


I'll paraphrase them for you:
"mDiyo deserved that crash for messing with my mod. I don't care if you take my mod out of any modpack. My TRUE fanbase will continue to support me. Who cares if I crash your game? If you sont agree with me shut up and get out."
Sorry I can't link you to the actual posts.

Alright, I can't really disagree with you by way of the posts. But even if he took out the code, he could always add it back in again. It wouldn't really make anybody feel any better about the issue. I'm just happy that I can still use GT with TC if I want to.
 
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Bob_Sack

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Jul 29, 2019
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Alright, I can't really disagree with you by way of the posts. But even if he took out the code, he could always add it back in again. It wouldn't really make anybody feel any better about the issue. I'm just happy that I can still use GT with TC if I want to.

Regardless. The fact he isn't removing the code is showing his intentions to possibly reactivate it in the future. He's intimidating mDiyo and other mod makers to play it his way or he'll crash them again.
 

Flipz

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Jul 29, 2019
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If I have a handgun in my pocket (and ammunition in my other pocket), and I jut shot someone with it yesterday, would you feel safe around me just because I haven't loaded it yet?

Problem is, I still wouldn't feel safe around you even if you got rid of the gun and the ammunition entirely--how do I know you won't go out and buy/steal another? Like Bellaabzug says:
But even if he took out the code, he could always add it back in again. It wouldn't really make anybody feel any better about the issue.

At this point, I don't think there's anything that Greg can do to regain our trust. He burned us, and gloated about it. If it was a he said/she said thing like what happened with Forestry and Tekkit, the truth would have gotten so muddy that most people wouldn't be able to confidently place the blame, so they'd slowly forgive both parties (even if neither party ever forgave the other). Greg stated that he did this deliberately, maliciously, and further expressed contempt towards the Feed the Beast community. To use Droideka's gun analogy, would you ever, ever feel safe around someone who has shot someone yesterday, and then proudly told you he wouldn't mind if you were dead? :/
 

Aideen

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Jul 29, 2019
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I do find it rather funny that the one thing that is over looked A LOT is what GregTech started out being: "GregTech is an add-on to IndustrialCraft2 which increases the IC2 techtree with 2 tiers"
I did notice that "What is GregTech?" has been removed from the official GregTech Wiki but it's still part of the FTB wiki. Which clearly makes sense after all, for GregTech to work it does require IC2 to be installed.

So lets assume, for the moment, that Greg has the permission from the IC2 modder to make the changes to his (the IC2) mod. These changes can then be "configured" to be "easier". Which, by the way, is a HUGE pain and "balanced" does not mean take 3 hours longer to make something. So if you want his pretty new toys (which are cool to an extent) you can have them at a relativity (thanks to some kind folks) simple process of editing out what you do and do not want.

Now, where does this permission to alter one mod extend to altering other mods in any FTB pack that his mod is added to? The whole mentality of it's his ball and he can do what he wants doesn't really hold much weight when his mod REQUIRES another mod to work.

I have seen a number of "well the Tinkers' Construct guy could have put in a config to un-nerf the nerf" so my question is why didn't Greg do that in the first place? Why should another modder have to go in and undo a modification that another mod author and his self appointed ego caused? It could have been the BiblioCraft guy who did this instead of the TC guy. But it wasn't, and so we have this "huff"​

That said it's pretty clear that he (Greg) added code which would crash the game if it interacted with his code changes. It is, by it's very definition, malware. For everyone:
"Malware, short for malicious software, is software...programmed...to disrupt computer operation... It can appear in the form of code, scripts ... and other software. 'Malware' is a general term used to refer to a variety of forms of hostile or intrusive software"I paraphrased for folks but it's the same thing.

For the record, I begged and pleaded with my server admin to add GregTech to our custom server pack. While I do not overly enjoy the TC mod, I respect that other folks do, and so long as the two mods work with one another, to an extent, I am fine with both mods. But, if it came down to choosing which one to be on our server, after the most recent changes (because it "balances" the game) I'm ready to throw in the towel and say get rid of Greg I can live without it.
 

Dee_Twenty

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Jul 29, 2019
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I have seen a number of "well the Tinkers' Construct guy could have put in a config to un-nerf the nerf" so my question is why didn't Greg do that in the first place?

Technically Greg did include the option to revert his silly wood nerf in his config, but it doesn't make Greg's reaction any less ludicrous.
 

Aideen

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Jul 29, 2019
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Technically Greg did include the option to revert his silly wood nerf in his config, but it doesn't make Greg's reaction any less ludicrous.
I stand corrected then :) - but it does seem.. silly.. to add code to undo code that someone else did...
 

Sales_Kital

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Jul 29, 2019
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This topic has officially put GregTech on my "mods to report" list, it's a very short list, GregTech is the only thing on it. I'd say best option right now is to just remove GregTech from FTB and replace it with TC, cuz it's actually rather fun to make all the awesome weapons and such in TC. I never liked having to reach endgame to have my solar power farm.
 

Magniff

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Jul 29, 2019
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So Greg and mDiyo got in a slapping match and Greg pulled out the bazooka to end the problems once and for all......sounds familiar........oh ya, that's the way the world has worked for millenia. Personally I don't give a damn if they wanna fight. I love Gregtech and I love TC, but enough with the drama. You people are more than helping to fuel the flames of their war. I imagine Greg and mDiyo are watching this thread. It's very likely that Greg has become an asshole to all of you whiners because of the constant hate you throw his way for a mod that is completely optional. If you want to hate somebody for Gregtech in FTB, point your fingers at those who make the packs and leave Greg alone. Place blame where it's due. Also, in the 1.5.2 Ultimate packs, Gregtech is completely optional. Quit feeling entitled like your paying for the mods! It's very likely the babies who want everything as quick and easy as possible are going to flame this message, so I will not be responding to anyone. There's my two cents....carry on!
 

Bubbleo

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Jul 29, 2019
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Grabs popcorn and watches the ftb forum and ic2 forums explode lol only 848 pages regarding this issue alone in the IC2 forum can the FTB forum beat it who knows but it sure is entertaining...
 
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