This is a really nice and useful guide; well done! If I may, I might suggest the alternate route for TE, which is an early dash to the nether (yes the 'noobish' use of the first 3 diamonds) to gather netherrack for the magma crucible. This allows nearly infinite lava, allowing the use of the magmatic engine and geothermal power, which are, of course, far superior to any of the coal/charcoal power generation methods. Once you've generated enough lava to fill a few magmatic engines, you can happily power your full TE line and have enough lava surplus to power a couple geothermal generators as well.
Getting started with Feed the beast
- Thread starter Kariko83
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I like the TE side, so might be biased... IC2 is pretty good -- love nuclear reactors, but you can really get by with a generator and the power tools and run most of your stuff through TE machines.
Did some fuel tests recently and sterling engine while cheap is garbage.
TE steam engine is 100% better than the sterling engine. And the railcraft steam engines are can be way better than TE.
Use the TE steam engine for ~3200 MJ per charcoal or the railcraft hobbyist steam engine - ~4800 from a cold start and nearly double when hot. Burning coal instead of charcoal in the TE engine gives a 50% boost (4800), while the hobbyist goes to 12k + from cold start.
Railcraft engines love coal and if you convert coal to coal coke they triple/quadruple coals value. I generally make a charcoal farm early, but you can strike a balance on coal -> diamonds vs coal for fuel as the conversion to coke is really valuable. Sterling on coke = 6400, TE steam = 9600, Hobbyist on 1 coke is still burning and i typed this whole damn post 40k+ Mjs from a cold start. It uses maybe 2 pieces of gold, but damn it runs crazy good.
The railcraft engines really benefit from running all the time and synergize really well with redstone energy cells to allow them to burst MJ output when needed. Not to mention the redstone conduits are much easier to use over conductive piping. I would only make the bare minimum conductive piping and rush conduits.
Boilers are probably too complicated for getting started, but they take the MJ per piece fuel and easily triple or quadruple efficiency from the hobbyist engines which are already really fuel efficient.
Did some fuel tests recently and sterling engine while cheap is garbage.
TE steam engine is 100% better than the sterling engine. And the railcraft steam engines are can be way better than TE.
Use the TE steam engine for ~3200 MJ per charcoal or the railcraft hobbyist steam engine - ~4800 from a cold start and nearly double when hot. Burning coal instead of charcoal in the TE engine gives a 50% boost (4800), while the hobbyist goes to 12k + from cold start.
Railcraft engines love coal and if you convert coal to coal coke they triple/quadruple coals value. I generally make a charcoal farm early, but you can strike a balance on coal -> diamonds vs coal for fuel as the conversion to coke is really valuable. Sterling on coke = 6400, TE steam = 9600, Hobbyist on 1 coke is still burning and i typed this whole damn post 40k+ Mjs from a cold start. It uses maybe 2 pieces of gold, but damn it runs crazy good.
The railcraft engines really benefit from running all the time and synergize really well with redstone energy cells to allow them to burst MJ output when needed. Not to mention the redstone conduits are much easier to use over conductive piping. I would only make the bare minimum conductive piping and rush conduits.
Boilers are probably too complicated for getting started, but they take the MJ per piece fuel and easily triple or quadruple efficiency from the hobbyist engines which are already really fuel efficient.
Setting up for Magmatic Engines is one of the things I think needs to be added to the TE progression, but between the missing information and the updates from what's in the Beta Pack, I don't think I'm currently alert enough to make suggestions for a proper overhaul of that section. (Been having some sleep issues, insomnia in particular.)
Coal and Charcoal have different values for Buildcraft energy? I didn't know that. Interesting. But even still, I'd refrain from using Coal as Coke alone makes it worth saving your Coal far, not to mention its IC2 uses. I don't think Coal's burn value really matters much when Railcraft is involved.
You might want to note for the newbies that you need all four pieces of the hazmat suit to get lava immunity. Also, there are rumors that gregtech might be going away, and anyway not everyone uses gregtech, so a word about how your next steps in ic2 will be different if you don't have gregtech might be cool.
Great job, by the way!
Great job, by the way!
Correction. It isn't my opinion, it's the title of the thread "Getting started with Feed the Beast", and I am not talking about "a guide" I am talking about "this guide". Reading is fundamental. Don't mix them up.
The rest of your post and the complete content of everything lindyhopfan has said are opinions. You are both entitled to your opinions just as I am entitled to mine.
Computercraft is useful to me because other people write and share programs for it. If I wanted to spend time learning a programming language it would be Java so I could write my own mods. I couldn't give a rats ass about LUA, Forth or whatever other language some mod dujour is going to use. To me getting started is all about being efficient. After that you can figure out what you want to spend time learning. Mods like Buildcraft and Forestry and Railcraft consume tons of resources, especially if you want to have an efficient distribution system with logistics pipes. Figuring out how Buildcraft works by yourself is not my idea of fun. It is more like a nightmare. If not for other peoples tutorials I would still be trying to figure out how to get things to connect and I have been using it for a long time. There isnt a damn thing intuitive about it.
I use my next 3 diamonds I get from my 1st 100 block turtle tunnel to get the obsidian for going to the nether and thus making a magma cubicle powered by a magma engine (or two). After that and the mining with the turtle I'll have almost infantile power using nether-rack as fuel.
I use the turtle's default tunnel 3 wide x 2 high program and as it's digging I do exploratory (4 to 5 blocks depending on tool) holes as shown in the diagram below. I usually hit one or two diamond veins every 100 blocks. I dig at level 12 (head) 90% of the time.
Nothing wrong with doing it that way. A diamond pick is just not something I usually choose to spend diamonds on so early in the game. I want them for quarries, for portal guns, for upgrading to tier 2 ic2 tech, lots of things.
It is really not hard to make the igneous extruder and to get it to give you the 10 obsidian you need to get to the nether. If you want you can just take it plus two buckets of water from the surface with you down to the first lava lake you found in the mine. Make an infinite water source next to the lava lake, place the igneous extruder next to that and set it to the obsidian setting, then use the buckets with the infinite water source to fill up the water side, then grab a few buckets of lava and put them in to fill up the lava side. 10 lava buckets full later you have your obsidian for a portal.
One thing I notice when I go over your updated guide is that you recommend building coke ovens, yet don't explain what it is or how it is built. Remember that it is a multi-block structure, a concept that will be almost entirely foreign to newbies. The only true multi-block structure in classic Minecraft is the Nether Portal, after all. In addition, you cannot look up multi-block structures in NEI; if they try, they'll only be able to find the coke oven bricks, but no information on what to do with them.
You should probably at least include a link to the Railcraft wiki at the relevant moments, if you don't want to expand the section.
You should probably at least include a link to the Railcraft wiki at the relevant moments, if you don't want to expand the section.
Good point and I intend on making the progressions a bit more thorough in the next iteration. I also intend to include a section on fuel and power sources but I must do more experimenting before it is included.
Man, this is a guide I've been looking for and will use. I do agree with Omicron that the multiblock structures are confusing for a newbie. I've tried to look them up in NEI but can't find the actual recipe. It's be nice if NEI could implement a feature where you can see how a multiblock structure is created. I've never bothered with them, other than nether portals. I know I could look them up but I just haven't. I guess you can call it lazy or maybe it's more I'd rather play than read about the game or recipes.
I know some of you old MC players cringe reading my last statement and I'm actually fine with that.....lol.
On a side note: Yay RP2 is out. Now, I have to wait for the pack to update. Hopefully it will do so soon. Not complaining just stating facts.
I know some of you old MC players cringe reading my last statement and I'm actually fine with that.....lol.
On a side note: Yay RP2 is out. Now, I have to wait for the pack to update. Hopefully it will do so soon. Not complaining just stating facts.
But but...why? You do know that Lava + water over it turns that lava into obsidian right? It's much easier to cast a portal (use buckets of lava + 1 bucket of water to cool lava into obsidian) than to mine the stuff. It takes quite a long time to mine the 10 obsidian you need.
At that stage in the game those 3 diamonds can be used for much more useful things.
Okay, I think my sleep issues have finally managed to leave me coherent enough to give proper feedback on the Thermal Expansion stuff. (Insomnia sucks, so much.)
For Engines, it's probably best to craft a single Stirling Engine to get the first TE machine started. After that, a player should switch to better engines, ones that don't become obsolete. The Hobbyist Steam Engine is not a Thermal Expansion item, but it is perfectly compatible and fits into the tech tree just fine. It is so cheap and so efficient that it's probably best listed as an alternative starting engine to the Stirling Engine, recommended over it if the player can find an extra 2 Gold for it by the time they're ready to craft their first machine. The TE Steam Engine is more powerful, but the Hobbyist Steam Engine is worth making because it provides A LOT more bang for your buck as well as never going obsolete due to surpassing the TE Steam Engine once a player starts producing Steam from a Boiler. The two Gold Nuggets it needs are a non-issue in the long run due to the pretty reliable drop rates from both vanilla Zombie Pigmen and the Twilight Forest Kobolds.
The Pulverizer should be moved into the same section as the Stirling Engine as it's pointless to make an Engine before you can make the Pulverizer. That said, It should probably say something like "Pulverizer/Induction Smelter". Both of them will double ore output, but they each have pros and cons, but both will be needed along the way, and in fact the Induction Smelter is probably the better machine to start with. The Induction Smelter has a 20% chance when processing Ore to yield Rich Slag as opposed to the Pulverizer's 5% chance for an extra bit of Pulverized Metal depending on the Ore being processed. The Rich Slag can be converted into any metal when run back through the Smelter with two piles of Pulverized Metal of the desired type. The Induction Smelter is also faster and combines the extra ore yield and the smelting steps together for even better processing efficiency. On the other hand, it requires Sand as a catalyst, and the Rich Slag cannot be turned into an ingot without pulverizing something first, whether it be an ore or an already smelted ingot.
How to condense this... "The Pulverizer and the Induction Smelter are both TE's high yield ore processing machines. They have slightly different roles to play in a finished factory, but either one can serve as a good starting point. The Induction Smelter is more effective overall, but the Pulverizer is needed eventually to provide renewable Sand and to actually enable the Induction Smelter to make use of its Rich Slag. Remember that the Pulverizer can work on already smelted ingots for this purpose."
The third section should be where the Aqueous Accumulator should be listed, along with the TE Steam Engine as they work well together and that is a good time to start making them. It could also include the Igneous Extruder for (nearly) fuel free Stone production, Cobblestone generation without need to wear down any tools to collect it, and Obsidian for crafting an Enchanting Table without any need of a Diamond Pick. (Easier than the mold method for assembling a Nether Portal as well.) This section is also a good place to mention that a Peat Farm can be operated manually and without the need of machines other than the Pulverizer for renewable Sand. I'm trying not to nitpick individual lines as you didn't say you wanted a proofreader/editor, but I reeeeeally think the line "and allows you to cut up some items for parts" needs to be reworded to "and allows you to recycle various wood items."
The fourth section should list the Magma Crucible and Magmatic Engines as a way to generate highly efficient and effective power once the player has secured access to the Nether and its bounties of Netherrack and the lava lakes themselves. This is the best source of power until Fuel production is started, Forestry biomas production reaches sustainability, or the player manages the infrastructure necessary to maintain a Boiler.
For Engines, it's probably best to craft a single Stirling Engine to get the first TE machine started. After that, a player should switch to better engines, ones that don't become obsolete. The Hobbyist Steam Engine is not a Thermal Expansion item, but it is perfectly compatible and fits into the tech tree just fine. It is so cheap and so efficient that it's probably best listed as an alternative starting engine to the Stirling Engine, recommended over it if the player can find an extra 2 Gold for it by the time they're ready to craft their first machine. The TE Steam Engine is more powerful, but the Hobbyist Steam Engine is worth making because it provides A LOT more bang for your buck as well as never going obsolete due to surpassing the TE Steam Engine once a player starts producing Steam from a Boiler. The two Gold Nuggets it needs are a non-issue in the long run due to the pretty reliable drop rates from both vanilla Zombie Pigmen and the Twilight Forest Kobolds.
The Pulverizer should be moved into the same section as the Stirling Engine as it's pointless to make an Engine before you can make the Pulverizer. That said, It should probably say something like "Pulverizer/Induction Smelter". Both of them will double ore output, but they each have pros and cons, but both will be needed along the way, and in fact the Induction Smelter is probably the better machine to start with. The Induction Smelter has a 20% chance when processing Ore to yield Rich Slag as opposed to the Pulverizer's 5% chance for an extra bit of Pulverized Metal depending on the Ore being processed. The Rich Slag can be converted into any metal when run back through the Smelter with two piles of Pulverized Metal of the desired type. The Induction Smelter is also faster and combines the extra ore yield and the smelting steps together for even better processing efficiency. On the other hand, it requires Sand as a catalyst, and the Rich Slag cannot be turned into an ingot without pulverizing something first, whether it be an ore or an already smelted ingot.
How to condense this... "The Pulverizer and the Induction Smelter are both TE's high yield ore processing machines. They have slightly different roles to play in a finished factory, but either one can serve as a good starting point. The Induction Smelter is more effective overall, but the Pulverizer is needed eventually to provide renewable Sand and to actually enable the Induction Smelter to make use of its Rich Slag. Remember that the Pulverizer can work on already smelted ingots for this purpose."
The third section should be where the Aqueous Accumulator should be listed, along with the TE Steam Engine as they work well together and that is a good time to start making them. It could also include the Igneous Extruder for (nearly) fuel free Stone production, Cobblestone generation without need to wear down any tools to collect it, and Obsidian for crafting an Enchanting Table without any need of a Diamond Pick. (Easier than the mold method for assembling a Nether Portal as well.) This section is also a good place to mention that a Peat Farm can be operated manually and without the need of machines other than the Pulverizer for renewable Sand. I'm trying not to nitpick individual lines as you didn't say you wanted a proofreader/editor, but I reeeeeally think the line "and allows you to cut up some items for parts" needs to be reworded to "and allows you to recycle various wood items."
The fourth section should list the Magma Crucible and Magmatic Engines as a way to generate highly efficient and effective power once the player has secured access to the Nether and its bounties of Netherrack and the lava lakes themselves. This is the best source of power until Fuel production is started, Forestry biomas production reaches sustainability, or the player manages the infrastructure necessary to maintain a Boiler.
Yes your right on that and I have used the bucket lave/water trick to build a portal before. I just enjoy making a lava to obsidian floor and digging out 10 lava blocks for the portal and placing it where I want that's not usually near a lava source. I tend to make the portal high up in the overworld as I have better luck coming out near glowstone and area's not so full of ghast.
hey Kariko, thanks for the guide. The breakdown of the development trees helped me a lot!
I don't know if this is within the scope of the guide, but there is a lot of low lying fruit in FtB that beginners aren't aware of. It took me a week to discover things like the Pocket Crafter, the various backpacks, and scaffolds. These are all significant "quality of life" items that don't really fit in the progression anywhere but make common tasks much easier if you know about them. I'd also like to mention the Autocrafting Table. It's a bit of a sidegrade in that it doesn't work with NEI's recipe map and you can't shift-click to process a whole stack, but the fact that things stay on the table when you leave is enormously helpful for complex, highly iterated recipes. It's prbobaly best to have a normal Workbench and an Autocrafter side by side.
FtB also offers an overwhelming variety of parallel functionality. Trying to figure out the relative merits of the Macerator vs the Pulverizer vs the Induction Furnace, all of which seem to do nearly identical things at first blush was very daunting. I had a similar reaction when trying to figure out which starter furnace I wanted.
I don't know if this is within the scope of the guide, but there is a lot of low lying fruit in FtB that beginners aren't aware of. It took me a week to discover things like the Pocket Crafter, the various backpacks, and scaffolds. These are all significant "quality of life" items that don't really fit in the progression anywhere but make common tasks much easier if you know about them. I'd also like to mention the Autocrafting Table. It's a bit of a sidegrade in that it doesn't work with NEI's recipe map and you can't shift-click to process a whole stack, but the fact that things stay on the table when you leave is enormously helpful for complex, highly iterated recipes. It's prbobaly best to have a normal Workbench and an Autocrafter side by side.
FtB also offers an overwhelming variety of parallel functionality. Trying to figure out the relative merits of the Macerator vs the Pulverizer vs the Induction Furnace, all of which seem to do nearly identical things at first blush was very daunting. I had a similar reaction when trying to figure out which starter furnace I wanted.
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