Thats just it. Reika isn't selling his mod. He is allowing people to use it.
The way he wrote that, it makes me feel like it is expected of reika to act like he is selling a product.
I might be misinterpreteding what he is inferring.
Getting opinions on RotaryFlux and my responses
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The way he wrote that, it makes me feel like it is expected of reika to act like he is selling a product.
I might be misinterpreteding what he is inferring.
The funny thing about art is that one artist considers defacement, another still considers art.
If someone wants to obtain art, alter it, then put it on display then there isn't anything wrong with that. In fact this has happened more than a few times in the art world. Hell, it happens all the time in the music world, where it's called 'sampling'.
This, plus I would argue that the artist in @Chris Becke's example would be well within their rights to forbid you from trashing what they sold you, so long as you were made aware of this in advance. To me, it is no different than a software EULA. Yes, I know many people - including those here - will hold that the idea of being given limits on their freedoms with something they have obtained "legitimately" is deeply objectionable or downright immoral (one person on reddit gets the prize for their colorful description of "is like holding a gun to my head and saying it's my fault if I get hurt"), but you are bound by rulesets already with things like contracts and of course the law.
Additionally, people keep equating purchased content with freely downloaded mods. The former has some element of "I sacrificed something for this, that garners me certain privileges". The latter does not.
Furthermore, going back to the artist example: If you were to do that, you are a colossal douche. I am normally not one to get "touchy feely" and break away from coldly logical arguments (indeed, I have been frequently criticized for disregarding emotional appeals and/or artistic mindsets), but even I see "cutting the painting to strips and giving it to my cat" as an enormous middle finger to the artist, essentially saying "this is all it is good for". It brings to mind phrases like "I wipe my --- with your writing", i.e. the action is deeply symbolic of "---- you".
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DISCLAIMER: All my posts in this thread are my own opinions and do not reflect of those of any team I am part of (adding this because it's starting to get a bit drama-filled)
Yes I copied @trajing's, shut up
Yes I copied @trajing's, shut up
I believe you wrt the artist: The artist can forbid...
Well, I also believe that the receiver, would be well within their rights to ignore that, and trash the painting anyway. And 99% of the time I would probably be deeply offended along with the artist. But 1% of the time perhaps I will be surprised, and something of greater value might be created. And that small chance is why I believe that creators - in all spheres of life not just MC modding - trying to retain control of works they have traded away is wrong. The author retains copyright (i.e. distribution and attribution rights) but everything else is up for grabs. For bad, or for good.
...and I classify your philosophy as entitlement. However, that's just a difference between our morals, which probably won't change.
I think you're thinking of this wrong. It's not that a modder is someone who is creating a painting and giving it to people.. It's more like the modder is creating a painting and sharing it with the public to view and enjoy. What's going on here is that someone is taking a photo of the painting, and claiming that they own it and can do whatever they want with it.
Anyway, the moral of this analogy is that I don't understand modern art.
*skips 8 pages of possible debates*
As a new user of RotaryCraft, with some basic understanding of it's workings and intentions, I can not personally vote on this. To me, it is a good idea as long as it's properly balanced. Tho, with the magenostatic engine, it seems redundant to me. Why have two of the same thing? In light of an other topic I recently participated in, I can see why users would want this. "Balance" is supposedly out of whack with the conversions. Tho, to me, it makes perfect sense. You take a gasoline engine, you get it started and rotating, you can generate electricity from a magnet on the end of the shaft with a copper coiling wrapped around it(much like drills for example). BUT, you can't really do that in reverse. It takes more power to get something to start turning, let alone fully up to speed. You can't just zap your shaft with electricity and it twirl its butt off lol. In the real world, it would consist of a rotating electromagnetic field to get the shaft to start turning. You'll need exponentially more amounts of power to get the speed to increase at all. Throw torque into that equation, and you'll need even moreeeeeeee power(due to resistance). Granted, I don't have a PhD in physics or anything, but with my small understandings of it, perfectly logical to me.
So, in terms of an addon mod, I would have to say "maybe." I could see a system of transformers being implemented or even a bigger magstat that'll help convert RF to rotation and vice versa. Unfortunately, keeping with real world standards, I still see people being upset. Making it a strict 1:1 ratio between RF and mW would seriously disrupt the balance of RC as it is. It would also be far from the way the mod was intended to be played. I think if the two of you collabed a bit, something great could be made that users would enjoy. I think the underlying problem is that RC is too real world for most people and perhaps even too difficult for them. An intermediate mod would help alleviate some headaches. One thing to remember is.....a lot of people didn't like having to do math in school, let alone do it in a game. RF is damn easy to deal with. "Build it bigger!"
As for your rights, its all in the EULA's and ToC's. I cba to read them, but in my opinion I'd say you could say "no" Unfortunately, with the classes being public and not protected/private, you can't REALLY stop it unless stated otherwise in the legal stuff.
Oh yea, and after looking at the pics on that reddit, seeing a capacitor bank that small running a bedrock breaker is ridiculously game-breaking to me. The max that capacitor can do would be 5k RF/t since it's definitely not the vibrant one. 5000 != 16000
*goes to read the last 8 pages out of curiosity*
As a new user of RotaryCraft, with some basic understanding of it's workings and intentions, I can not personally vote on this. To me, it is a good idea as long as it's properly balanced. Tho, with the magenostatic engine, it seems redundant to me. Why have two of the same thing? In light of an other topic I recently participated in, I can see why users would want this. "Balance" is supposedly out of whack with the conversions. Tho, to me, it makes perfect sense. You take a gasoline engine, you get it started and rotating, you can generate electricity from a magnet on the end of the shaft with a copper coiling wrapped around it(much like drills for example). BUT, you can't really do that in reverse. It takes more power to get something to start turning, let alone fully up to speed. You can't just zap your shaft with electricity and it twirl its butt off lol. In the real world, it would consist of a rotating electromagnetic field to get the shaft to start turning. You'll need exponentially more amounts of power to get the speed to increase at all. Throw torque into that equation, and you'll need even moreeeeeeee power(due to resistance). Granted, I don't have a PhD in physics or anything, but with my small understandings of it, perfectly logical to me.
So, in terms of an addon mod, I would have to say "maybe." I could see a system of transformers being implemented or even a bigger magstat that'll help convert RF to rotation and vice versa. Unfortunately, keeping with real world standards, I still see people being upset. Making it a strict 1:1 ratio between RF and mW would seriously disrupt the balance of RC as it is. It would also be far from the way the mod was intended to be played. I think if the two of you collabed a bit, something great could be made that users would enjoy. I think the underlying problem is that RC is too real world for most people and perhaps even too difficult for them. An intermediate mod would help alleviate some headaches. One thing to remember is.....a lot of people didn't like having to do math in school, let alone do it in a game. RF is damn easy to deal with. "Build it bigger!"
As for your rights, its all in the EULA's and ToC's. I cba to read them, but in my opinion I'd say you could say "no" Unfortunately, with the classes being public and not protected/private, you can't REALLY stop it unless stated otherwise in the legal stuff.
Oh yea, and after looking at the pics on that reddit, seeing a capacitor bank that small running a bedrock breaker is ridiculously game-breaking to me. The max that capacitor can do would be 5k RF/t since it's definitely not the vibrant one. 5000 != 16000
*goes to read the last 8 pages out of curiosity*
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
I never said it wasn't art. I've defaced quite a few servers/builds with giant dongs and called it art.
My [implied] point- as Reika said- doing so [without consent of that original artist] is somewhat disrespectful.
(your wiki link also touched on similar points of using another's work without permission)
And you're missing the point, it hasn't been traded away. What you do in your private [ssp] instance is fine. What's being discussed here goes far beyond that.
As I yours.
I have kids. I teach them to share, but not to steal. Those are my morals. I encourage them to paint, or draw or make their own music or songs, based on what they seen and hear in the world. I do not ever want to tell them they cannot draw this, or paint that, or sing a song with those words because under the law it is considered a derivative work. They'll get enough of that crap from entitled people later.
Unfortunately, when extrapolated, this specifically means I also believe RFFlux has a right to exist. And as much as I find the mod to be poorly executed rubbish, I will defend its right to exist.
The thing is, this is not a converter engine. This is making my machines run directly off of RF, and negates the whole torque/speed mechanic.
I did not ask about legal rights, just "would I get crucified (again) if I blocked this".
I'll expand on my analogy a bit more, because it's a great example the more I think about it.
Imagine Reika made a painting and publicly displays it for anyone to enjoy who wants to. This is making the mod and sharing it.
Now, Reika says please don't copy my work, but you can take a picture of it and do whatever you want with it, as long as you don't try to share it with other people. This is how he is fine with letting people do whatever they want in SSP. You can copy it, change it, whatever you want, as long as it doesn't leave your possession or claim it is yours.
Reika has a rule where the art must be displayed in such a way that it shows the true meaning of the painting (insert something artsy here), and without it, part of the meaning is lost. This is similar to his permissions list.
Someone comes along and takes a picture of it, recreates the art with a few changes, claiming that this makes it easier to understand, and starts distributing and showcasing this. Reika now has a moral issue here on what to do. Does he order the takedown of the modified painting, or change his to better suit the situation? That is where we are now, or at least were.
Note that at no point did I mention that something was bought, sold, traded, or changed ownership. (And now the word Reika seems strange to me...)
Edit: A word
Question.
Is this thread supposed to be an active discussion where alternate viewpoints are actually given consideration or was it just created as a 'discussion' to rebut any and all viewpoints, based almost solely on opinion, that disagree with Reika's? Because based on the reactions of most here it sure feels like the latter.
And with that I think I'm done with this thread as it's obvious nothing can come of it but drama.
Is this thread supposed to be an active discussion where alternate viewpoints are actually given consideration or was it just created as a 'discussion' to rebut any and all viewpoints, based almost solely on opinion, that disagree with Reika's? Because based on the reactions of most here it sure feels like the latter.
And with that I think I'm done with this thread as it's obvious nothing can come of it but drama.
It was to attempt to figure out what the community thought.
And yes, given the nature of this thread nothing can come of it but drama. If the words "Reika", "RF", "rights", and "ethics" come together, drama is guaranteed to result.
Yup, I saw that. Hence why I hinted at the collabing and converting
I see potential, but not as it is. As stated, you cant just zap a shaft and expect it to turnI know you didn't, but I personally don't see WHY you should concern yourself over the morales of doing it(blocking the addon). It's YOUR mod. Do what YOU want with it. In my unprofessional opinion, RC is perfect as it is. Yea, people will hate you for it, but don't they already lol. That addon breaks your mod balance completely. Feel free to retaliate. I would
All in all tho, make peace, not war. I truly believe if the two of you butted heads something good will come. Obviously not with a conduit hooked up to the back of a machine tho.This doesn't work and has been proven to not work, by virtue of one fact: People lie. Constantly. Frequently. Reika has made it clear he doesn't support old versions of his mods, so people lie about what version they're on in order to get support, when he's already fixed it. He has to spend time trying to fix a bug that's already fixed because people are deceitful, entitled little shits. How is he going to enforce 'no support while this mod is used in conjunction with x mod' or in whatever pack? He can't. Were he to do so via modding, it'd be called DRM and then he'd get shot down for THAT. There is no win in this particular argument, unfortunately. I wish there were however, truly.
Having said that, I honestly do feel like public packs should NOT have many of Reika's mods in them. They are not for public consumption, and are indeed best suited to what is a lamentably niche audience. Having said that, it's ultimately Reika's decision whether he wants to allow for that sort of thing or not, and he certainly has more experience to draw upon in making that decision as compared to myself!
I have utter faith in Reika's ability to outsmart non-modders. But you're right, the only option is to stop modding. Which is sad.
I disagree with this.
It is possible to have Reikas trifecta of mods in a public modpack, it just isn't ideal. I'm still hoping for some new rules/things for modpack.
That said, I feel like this discussion is at an end, and all that needs to be said, has been said. So I'm out.
Why...are they not ideal for public packs? I don't see anything in Reika's rules that'd make a public pack including them particularly difficult. Don't screw with his mods' integrity, give him credit, and ask for permission. To me, that's just basic courtesy. Now, if we're talking a HQM pack (or something similar) where things are Minetweaked to hell and back, then yeah, it might not fit all that well, but for your average John Smith pack? For something like, say, Infinity? Its perfectly fine.
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