I guess its time for a new email address?I suggest to Spam him to death in the mean time.
Getting opinions on RotaryFlux and my responses
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I guess its time for a new email address?I suggest to Spam him to death in the mean time.
Don't take this as indicative of the majority of the community. There are always people like that. There are game developers who got death threats for putting something in their game some fan didn't like. These people are always the loudest, but I've found most people are actually quite reasonable. I don't agree with some of your design decisions, but RotaryFlux is a pretty clear case since it changes your content. You're perfectly justified and perfectly in your rights in protecting your mod from being tampered with in this way. I'm pretty confident that most people would agree if you asked them.
@lenscas:
As a rule, you don't react to such things unless you have a means to enforce a change in behaviour. Otherwise, any reaction only encourages them to continue.
It was more a joke then anything most likely he used a throw away email account anyway.
On what basis. (assuming it was done properly and) It contains none of @Reika's code. I mean, sure, you could file a take down based on DMCA, and give a probably US based hosting, it would automatically be taken down.
Everyone quoting EULA's and copyright law is absolutely hysterical.
1. He's not copying Reika's code, he's modifying it at runtime(you know, like Igauna Tinker Tweaks does with TiC, also fundamentally changing the mod btw). Copyright law does NOT apply here.
2. To win this "case" damage has to be proven, either financial or personal. Reika might actually get a financial gain out of this as more people could download his mods. As for personal the mod author is not slandering or demeaning Reika, the people who say RoC is OP and Reika is an idiot down the line could be sued, not the mod author.
3. DMCA on what basis? He's copied/stole nothing. This mod is completely legal and using legal arguments against it is daft.
4. Moral dilemma? There is none, wendian is free to do whatever he likes to whatever mod he likes. As Reika is entitled to respond however he chooses.
Big ups to Reika for thinking this through instead of going on a tirade tho but please leave the "legal" arguments out of it, they're completely irrelevant.
PS: my opinion to Reika remains the same, add a warning and ignore it. I'm growing tired of RoC drama every 5sec btw.
EDIT: the "derivative" argument below also won't hold up as it's "fundamentally changing the dynamics of the mod etc etc etc" AND as long as wendian doesn't claim credit to designing RoC he's not in breach of anything.
1. He's not copying Reika's code, he's modifying it at runtime(you know, like Igauna Tinker Tweaks does with TiC, also fundamentally changing the mod btw). Copyright law does NOT apply here.
2. To win this "case" damage has to be proven, either financial or personal. Reika might actually get a financial gain out of this as more people could download his mods. As for personal the mod author is not slandering or demeaning Reika, the people who say RoC is OP and Reika is an idiot down the line could be sued, not the mod author.
3. DMCA on what basis? He's copied/stole nothing. This mod is completely legal and using legal arguments against it is daft.
4. Moral dilemma? There is none, wendian is free to do whatever he likes to whatever mod he likes. As Reika is entitled to respond however he chooses.
Big ups to Reika for thinking this through instead of going on a tirade tho but please leave the "legal" arguments out of it, they're completely irrelevant.
PS: my opinion to Reika remains the same, add a warning and ignore it. I'm growing tired of RoC drama every 5sec btw.
EDIT: the "derivative" argument below also won't hold up as it's "fundamentally changing the dynamics of the mod etc etc etc" AND as long as wendian doesn't claim credit to designing RoC he's not in breach of anything.
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Actually, derivative works don't necessarily contain original code. It's a quite common misconception, I even believed in it myself until a few days ago.
Title 17 said:
Doesn't make it any less illegal, nor does it make DMCA takedown notices any less effective.
Ah, the great pastime of bringing everything into a courtroom. I don't think Reika is concerned about legality but rather about legitimacy. Which is a more malleable idea, but in spite of that the case is even clearer from that perspective.
Doesn't makit it any less anything. What exactly is illegal about changing bytecodes?
I dont see how title 17 applies. I am not a lawyer. Nor do I intend to consult one.
What I want to know is, outside of the legal bullshit, how anyone can stand up and with a straight face say that altering some bytes in a computers memory is illegal.
Title 17 of the United States Code is the copyright law of the United States of America.
Legal 'bullshit' is quite important when it comes to stating whether something is illegal.
How can you even talk about 'illegal' outside of the 'legal bullshit'?
I'm finally going to input on this topic. I am not going to read anything else before posting, I am going solely off the OP on Reddit and Reika's OP.
So for the "addon" in questions (I am going to use the term addon because it is technically an addon for RoC).
I do like the idea of it- WAIT WAIT WAIT! Let me finish. I do like the idea of it, as a concept. Being able to plug an RF conduit into RoC machines and they work, with no need for converters. HOWEVER! I feel that it should be something dealt with much better, for example an RF conduit which when you right click can set the torque, etc. and different tiers can do different things; leadstone does the same as a DC engine, and better conduits can do higher speeds, or something to that effect. But you need to set it to do that, and it requires RoC materials to make, e.g. the "leadstone" variant needed HSLA steel, as that is early game, and maybe using bedrock as the end tier, or something.
As for Reika's view on this.
Now you know that I probably don't agree, but surprisingly I agree almost 100% with Reika. The only thing I don't agree with is even the thought of adding code to prevent this into his mods.
No, the Redditor shouldn't distribute the mod publicly (what he does privately who knows, who cares). But if someone wants to make a mod like that, so they (and their friends?) can use, shouldn't be prevented through the main mods' code.
If the mod was to be released publicly, I can understand that being implemented, but if I, as a single user, want to play with RoC but use RF to power stuff from the get-go, then I should be allowed to, as long as the mod I am using to do this is private, and not available for all to download.
So for the "addon" in questions (I am going to use the term addon because it is technically an addon for RoC).
I do like the idea of it- WAIT WAIT WAIT! Let me finish. I do like the idea of it, as a concept. Being able to plug an RF conduit into RoC machines and they work, with no need for converters. HOWEVER! I feel that it should be something dealt with much better, for example an RF conduit which when you right click can set the torque, etc. and different tiers can do different things; leadstone does the same as a DC engine, and better conduits can do higher speeds, or something to that effect. But you need to set it to do that, and it requires RoC materials to make, e.g. the "leadstone" variant needed HSLA steel, as that is early game, and maybe using bedrock as the end tier, or something.
As for Reika's view on this.
Now you know that I probably don't agree, but surprisingly I agree almost 100% with Reika. The only thing I don't agree with is even the thought of adding code to prevent this into his mods.
No, the Redditor shouldn't distribute the mod publicly (what he does privately who knows, who cares). But if someone wants to make a mod like that, so they (and their friends?) can use, shouldn't be prevented through the main mods' code.
If the mod was to be released publicly, I can understand that being implemented, but if I, as a single user, want to play with RoC but use RF to power stuff from the get-go, then I should be allowed to, as long as the mod I am using to do this is private, and not available for all to download.
Stop dodging the question.
Because whatever the legal theory is, what you are essentially asserting is that I am not permitted to alter certain bytes in my computers memory.
I'm not dodgin the question, stop accusing me of doing so.
Distribution of derivatives without permission is illegal, however, personal use is more of a gray area (could probably be sued for, but who the hell would do that?).
No it isn't. Distribution of derivatives without CREDIT is illegal. You honestly think musicians grant permission for their work to be sampled/covered in modern electronic pop music? No they don't, but as long as they're credited and paid royalties there's nothing they can do about it. Same laws apply here. This is not a legal issue in any way shape or form, stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
Whether this addon is against the spirit/"laws" of the Modded Minecraft Community is the question.
Haven't read the thread beyond the OP, but I'll just go ahead and post my two cents:
Personally, I agree that this is a stupid mod that shouldn't really exist, but so what? I could also say the same about dirt to diamonds and dartcraft, but that doesn't mean I want them ended. I'm sure there's someone out there who likes dirt to diamonds, and I know there are plenty who like dartcraft.
I know that this is somewhat of a false equivalency, given that this directly affects the mod you've spent a lot of time making, but I still personally would take more or less the same philosophy. If people want mods I think are stupid, sure, they can go ahead and do that. Doesn't mean I have to make any steps to specifically cater to them, doesn't mean I have to change anything in the mod that isn't a bug for them, just means I have to deal with the fact that they exist.
Well... And deal with the occasional retarded bug report. Which is a valid and legitimate issue that I quite frankly have too much trouble wrapping my head around the fact that the problem bug reports you receive were actually written by real people somewhere in the world to actually address.
I probably would have went the way of the FlowerChild at this point, not quite make the mod incompatible with everything but I certainly would've put up a communications firewall so that I only get bug reports and such from people I know are not going to make me want to nuke the world.
Personally, I agree that this is a stupid mod that shouldn't really exist, but so what? I could also say the same about dirt to diamonds and dartcraft, but that doesn't mean I want them ended. I'm sure there's someone out there who likes dirt to diamonds, and I know there are plenty who like dartcraft.
I know that this is somewhat of a false equivalency, given that this directly affects the mod you've spent a lot of time making, but I still personally would take more or less the same philosophy. If people want mods I think are stupid, sure, they can go ahead and do that. Doesn't mean I have to make any steps to specifically cater to them, doesn't mean I have to change anything in the mod that isn't a bug for them, just means I have to deal with the fact that they exist.
Well... And deal with the occasional retarded bug report. Which is a valid and legitimate issue that I quite frankly have too much trouble wrapping my head around the fact that the problem bug reports you receive were actually written by real people somewhere in the world to actually address.
I probably would have went the way of the FlowerChild at this point, not quite make the mod incompatible with everything but I certainly would've put up a communications firewall so that I only get bug reports and such from people I know are not going to make me want to nuke the world.
Seeing as people seem to be getting a little heated towards each other, I'm just going to warn everyone to Be Nice.
[joke]Woohoo, lucky you, free dick pics!
[/joke]Might as well weigh in, for whatever miniscule worth
I don't see that Reika has a 'right', morally or ethically, to tell other modmakers how to interact or otherwise with his mod. Legally appears to be somewhat more of a point of contention.
I think he has a 'right' to alter his own code to close what he might view as an exploit. Many game-makers do, usually in multiplayer environments. It's a slightly dodgier decision in a single-player environment. However, that'll likely lead to a stealth war as the modmaker might simply work around his changes, rinse and repeat.
I do _not_ agree that the alterations can be aggressive, say leading to game crashes. Disabling one's own mod when the other is detected is perhaps as aggressive as it should get.
I don't, however, entirely understand Reika's issue with the mod. I mean, I see where the inclusion of it can trivialise his mod, but surely the decision there lies in the hands of the player? Server admins would presumably not include the other mod if it opened the door to issues, mod pack makers would likewise make their own decisions based on how 'easy' they want their pack to be... I just don't see the reputation hit he's claiming.
I think aggressively confronting this mod, no matter how justified or otherwise, is much more likely to damage Reika/RoC's reputation, than any possible in-game experience with someone who has presumably knowingly included both mods.
I don't see that Reika has a 'right', morally or ethically, to tell other modmakers how to interact or otherwise with his mod. Legally appears to be somewhat more of a point of contention.
I think he has a 'right' to alter his own code to close what he might view as an exploit. Many game-makers do, usually in multiplayer environments. It's a slightly dodgier decision in a single-player environment. However, that'll likely lead to a stealth war as the modmaker might simply work around his changes, rinse and repeat.
I do _not_ agree that the alterations can be aggressive, say leading to game crashes. Disabling one's own mod when the other is detected is perhaps as aggressive as it should get.
I don't, however, entirely understand Reika's issue with the mod. I mean, I see where the inclusion of it can trivialise his mod, but surely the decision there lies in the hands of the player? Server admins would presumably not include the other mod if it opened the door to issues, mod pack makers would likewise make their own decisions based on how 'easy' they want their pack to be... I just don't see the reputation hit he's claiming.
I think aggressively confronting this mod, no matter how justified or otherwise, is much more likely to damage Reika/RoC's reputation, than any possible in-game experience with someone who has presumably knowingly included both mods.
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