Ah, okiday then. In that case I agree with this 'Xeph' person.It's actually a reference to Let it End. There's very few items which give you an advantage at the stage which you get them. All bags up until the 3rd quest line are no higher than greater for that reason only
FTB News 25/01/2015
- Thread starter slowpoke
- Start date
No-one said that. jordsta95 said it shouldn't be in EVERY pack, not that it souldn't be in ANY pack. I can see how the phrase could be misinterpreted, though, due to the English language's tendency for ambiguous modifiers.
Ahhh ok. Yes, they are 100% correct. But only because the wording, cruel is the correct term... some people say evil, which is totally incorrect :3
I am really glad that you guys finally realised this. I was very concerned about this back when it was announced that you were not going to do these kind of packs any more. It felt/feels to me that it is rather easy to judge that a very large part of the "consumer" basis is into these packs from just every day use of this very forum(it is simply these packs that a large portion of people come here to discuss and find help for), but it is good that you confirmed it with a survey.
It is however troubling that they are viewed as "simple, uncomplicated packs with little to no config or balance changes" in my opinion. From my previous experience this have exactly been the one Achilles heel of the official FTB "kitchen sink" packs. They could really do with that little extra effort in balancing, config/recipe tweaking etc. I don't expect that they can ever be 100% balanced with so many mods, but as an example all that balance I found lacking in Monster, I later found in the quite similar 3rd party pack TPPI(which even have GT to struggle with).
You have to think of it like this, the Kitchen Sink packs have a lot of mods in them. If one becomes balanced, another one becomes harder/easier, so it'd take time to balance it. And it's a question of time vs. output. would you much rather the FTB team spend 10 hours working on balancing one mod (while there are most likely bugs to deal with) or just deal with bugs, and give a "complete" pack.
Personally I see KS packs as a testing ground, where you can see how well mods interact
I am not saying it is easy. Keep hearing it is nearly impossible, but obviously it is not since some 3rd party packs pulled it off. It might be a matter of manpower and recruiting people for the job that actually have the enthusiasm for making these kitchen sink packs.
I would prefer they do both. To be completely honest, it wouldn't matter too much to me how many bugs they fix if nothing is done towards more balancing etc.
Atm I feel more encouraged to skip the official 1.7 kitchen sink packs and wait for something like TPPI2 tbh.
Personally I see KS packs as a testing ground, where you can see how well mods interact
But should the rest of us who play the "kitchen sink" pack as our main genre suffer poor quality just because you choose to use it like a new mods testing grounds?
If you truly want to just test a new mod on its own with its default configs, then what prevents you from just adding it to something like the FTB lite packs?
I rather fear that the half that don't personally play this genre of packs think it is simple and unsophisticated and is undeserving of the same effort that makes it a good quality pack that their genre of packs gets.
I am quoting quite a lot of the FTB community that I talk to here "Nobody likes a Kitchen Sink pack", "Kitchen Sink packs aren't that popular", "Kitchen Sink packs are a waste of time", etc. etc.
I think the reason the FTB team don't like to put a lot of effort into KS packs is because they are never going to be optimized perfectly (i.e. you will never get anywhere near your usual FPS on it), and that a LOT of the community seem to either be bordering on whether they are good or bad, or they just don't like KS packs.
Personally, I am not a massive fan, but when I was helping test out Infinity I found it to be OK. Maybe because it wasn't as big as Monster, or maybe because of the new mods. But I will say Infinity has to be one of the best KS packs since Ultimate, IN MY OPINION
Hey, I'm just expressing my preference. If "the rest of you" (implying that I'm the only person who feels this way, which I'm sure has a clever formal fallacy name) prefer it another way then I very much doubt that the pack builders will see my suggestion and say "Hey, some Trusted User says this, therefore we should ignore everyone else's opinions and our own and do what he wants".
Is there a name for the arguement that goes "I have a different preference to you, therefore you are trying to force your opinions on the rest of humanity"?
And I never said that I only want to try Mod X. When I play a "kitchen sink" pack, there's usually only a small number that I avoid and that's just because I don't know them yet but might get around to them at some point. I just prefer to play each mod the way the author intended, unless there are egregious cross-mod duplication exploits, but even those I'm not bothered about as I can just choose not to abuse them. I accept that they need to be fixed for SMP though.
I like KS packs. I also like highly focused, tailored packs like Magic Farm, Agrarian Skies, and Crash Landings. I usually have one KS world and one tailored pack world going on at the same time.
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It is just strange that more than 1/3-1/2 the posts(that are not spam) in general FTB chat are usually about these kitchen sink packs that no one apparently play or like. Atm it is lots and lots of Infinity questions from people with some DW20 thrown in and a few Resurrection. Just try and play a game of going back a few pages in the General FTB chat and just count how many threads have Infinity in the title alone. There are almost never any questions about any of the themed modpacks.
I also think a little trip to the Server promotion section of the forum is a little telling.
Just because the people you talk to don't like or play them, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't like or play them. It would make sense that you talk most to people like yourself with similar interests in fact.
And we still have the survey Captainnana posted saying half favoured the all-round packs. It would be really interesting to actually see data from the actual packs downloaded/played though as I personally suspect that would lean even more in favour of the kitchen sink packs.
(God that term (kitchen sink pack) is horrible...)
What?
I merely presented my counter argument. I thought we were having a debate. You were quoting me and phrasing it as a question after all. No need to get upset.
What I meant was: I think that those of us that are attracted by the the All-round packs(I vote we change the kitchen sink term to this or something better if anyone can think of it
) as our main packs probably like them precisely because we have all these mods working together. And as such we would all probably prefer these mods to work together as best possible with as much balance as possible. Be that with configs, minetweaker, specialized minimods or whatever.I completely understand that you and other people might want to once and again play mods purely as they are intended without all the tweaks for intermod compatibility etc. But this is just where I have to rehash one of Jaded's answer that I once got: Then what prevents you from just taking a small basic modpack and adding the mods yourself(and not touching the configs at all)? Why would the FTB team even need to spend time on making a pack for this purpose? The reason for the FTB team to spend time on making the All-round packs would IMO precisely be because they could do all the balancing and tweaking that normal players would not know how to.
I really prefer to think of them as: different path packs. As in I can take many different paths to reach whatever goal I have.What I meant was: I think that those of us that are attracted by the the All-round packs(I vote we change the kitchen sink term to this or something better if anyone can think of it
I tend to use the Kitchen Sink as the starting point, before removing a lot of the mods I will never use, adding in a couple I wanted from the start etc. I know making your own pack is a lot easier now we're in 1.7, but keeping track of updates and staying on top of stuff always frustrated me when I tried it. Sure, it's the lazy way, but it works for me.
Yeah me too. And even though I don't have particular hard choosing less efficient options(which I at the time think are more fun/challenging), I would/do still prefer if that small nagging feeling of that other option that is better was not there or a little less. If they are better balanced it also opens up for doing several different things together and/or mixing and matching. And better pacing and progression through mods. Less cross mod exploits to jump directly from "early game" to "endgame" tech.
Sorry, but I don't get your point. You realize the FTB did put off the KS pack right? They initially didn't make one, as they could have had one released at the same time as the DW20 pack, but I THINK there was a lot of the FTB team who didn't see the point in it (purely on what I have heard, though this may not be the case). Furthermore, the reason they keep it unconfigged is because that is how people seem to want it.What?
I merely presented my counter argument. I thought we were having a debate. You were quoting me and phrasing it as a question after all. No need to get upset.
What I meant was: I think that those of us that are attracted by the the All-round packs(I vote we change the kitchen sink term to this or something better if anyone can think of it
I completely understand that you and other people might want to once and again play mods purely as they are intended without all the tweaks for intermod compatibility etc. But this is just where I have to rehash one of Jaded's answer that I once got: Then what prevents you from just taking a small basic modpack and adding the mods yourself(and not touching the configs at all)? Why would the FTB team even need to spend time on making a pack for this purpose? The reason for the FTB team to spend time on making the All-round packs would IMO precisely be because they could do all the balancing and tweaking that normal players would not know how to.
But I don't deny a lot of people talk about it in the general chat, etc. BUT that's because it's not localized. Look at the discussion amounts in those threads, and then go into the Third Party Pack section and look at how much people talk about the packs there.
As for minetweaking/mod tweaking... WHY!? I don't see why you would do want this. KS packs are SUPPOSED to be for modded newbies. If you want a challenge play a pack made for challenge. The KS packs are there for those who are new, or want to see how mod interaction works, etc.
Mage Quest is supposed to be balanced, no? I haven't played it so I wouldn't know though.