FTB - Curse Update

[PhilHibbs]

My point was that they can continue making a profit, albeit a smaller one, even if they do hire a Linux coder or two.

Good luck with that! It may be that the Linux market is worthwhile on a "goodwill" basis, and that's a very real possibility that I am sure will be taken into account, but it's pure guesswork. Expecting a comercial outfit to throw away money? Not going to happen.

 

[brickviking]

Er, yes it was totally anecdotal.

My apologies, I spent about 45 minutes writing (and rewriting) the initial reply, another 20 minutes writing out the second reply, and forgot to add on the 30 seconds it took me to google for http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/281031-prior-bundle-statistics

Please, don't tell me that's anecdotal. If I read that correctly, that's hard facts. I wasn't quite aware of the full spread of results for the multi-os bundles, but I'm now a bit more informed.

(Post 7)

 

[Nerixel]

Good luck with that! It may be that the Linux market is worthwhile on a "goodwill" basis, and that's a very real possibility that I am sure will be taken into account, but it's pure guesswork. Expecting a comercial outfit to throw away money? Not going to happen.

I pretty much said exactly that in my last two paragraphs, why are you trying to convince me of it?

 

[PhilHibbs]

Please, don't tell me that's anecdotal. If I read that correctly, that's hard facts. I wasn't quite aware of the full spread of results for the multi-os bundles, but I'm now a bit more informed.

It is the very definition of anecdotal. Having hard numbers doesn't change that, "anecdotal" doesn't mean "probably made up", it means "small sample of non-scientifically-selected data". It's a single sample of data. And at that, a single sample that would be perfect to cherry-pick, given the charitable nature of the Humble Bundle (the EFF being very popular among Free Software advocates).

 

[02JanDal]

About the API, would there be stuff in place to prevent 3rd-parties from accessing it?

And as people have pointed out, using a multi-platform library (or whatever it's called), while it would introduce a higher CPU use, wouldn't be outrageous and I doubt many users would notice. I think I saw someone mention 4% higher or something somewhere earlier.

It's far less then 4%, there aren't any real cons to using a cross-platform toolkit, and amongst the pros there are stuff like only having to write the code once. Kaelten brought up one valid reason for not using a cross-platform toolkit though (they would have to learn how to use it).
I cannot confirm that in any way of course, but I still believe that Curse would be better of in the long term using a cross-platform toolkit instead of writing the same code multiple times, especially as I personally think Qt (my toolkit of choice) is really easy to learn/use.

 

[FyberOptic]

Since the platform conversation continues, I'm going to reiterate what I said previously a bit more clearly for the Linux/Mac folk, especially after refreshing myself a bit on the code: as long as Curse at least provides a direct download link to pack zips as they've suggested, then anyone (including FTB) can continue to maintain the existing cross-platform launcher.

Best case scenario is Curse agrees to let FTB host all of the necessary data for this launcher to continue working until they make an alternative, or, FTB finds some alternative hosting to do so, and nothing changes for people who need to use this launcher; FTB just has to modify the launcher from using Creeperhost to Curse (or wherever), which should be trivial.

Next best case scenario is that Curse at least provides a direct download link to modpacks. The current launcher would now have to be modified slightly, to separate where launcher data and the actual modpacks are gotten from, since currently they appear to all come from the same server. The launcher data mostly consists of some XML with info about the packs/maps/etc, and images to represent the packs, which is all tiny stuff and could be hosted nearly anywhere. The launcher would grab the packs themselves from Curse's servers, however.

Not-so-best case scenario is that FTB drops all support for the current launcher, but Curse still provides the direct download link. You'd still need the aforementioned modified launcher to separate launcher data from the modpacks, but you'd also need a community volunteer to maintain and host the XML data. The packs themselves would still be safely hosted on Curse. Best way to modify the launcher in this scenario would be to add in a config option to specify where the launcher data comes from, in case that has to change at times (another volunteer takes over, etc).

Worst case scenario is FTB drops all support for the current launcher, and Curse doesn't provide direct downloads. Where there's a will there's a way, and I'm sure it would still be possible to make the existing launcher work one way or another, possibly even through the API whenever that happens. But you're at a point of diminishing returns now. Even the previous suggestion of a community volunteer maintaining pack data isn't a reasonable long-term solution.

At the end of the day it's just mods and configs in a zip file. There's plenty of places that do it if you're not able to get them from here.

 

[02JanDal]

@FyberOptic My point isn't really about that, I'm probably not going to use the Curse launcher at all, and I barely use the current FTB launcher (I use MultiMC). My point is I think it would be better for Curse to add linux support, and that it isn't as hard/has the problems some people say.

 

[FyberOptic]

@FyberOptic My point isn't really about that, I'm probably not going to use the Curse launcher at all, and I barely use the current FTB launcher (I use MultiMC). My point is I think it would be better for Curse to add linux support, and that it isn't as hard/has the problems some people say.

Well I'm not disagreeing with you on any of that, including use of MultiMC (which I also prefer). I've also done cross-platform GUI work in C and have an idea of what's involved. But Curse pays people to figure the code out, and to decide what's in their best interests, so it doesn't really benefit folks to keep telling them to do it, or even how to do it. Making sure people still have access to the existing client on the other hand is a reasonable request, since it requires minimal effort to maintain, doesn't leave anyone behind, and is still a perfectly viable piece of software. It's not a bad interface at all, to be honest. I just use MultiMC because that's where all my other vanilla, dev stuff, adventure maps, etc, are stored.

I realize of course that giving people access to the old launcher isn't exactly in Curse's best interest when they want to pull in FTB's user base. But losing users isn't really in their best interest, either.

 

[02JanDal]

Agreeing mostly, the only real reason I'm in this discussion is because I'm annoyed by the people saying "Linux support is hard/costly". We're probably going to start adding support for whatever Curse does to MultiMC as soon as it's available, so I don't really care about the "Don't leave linux behind".

 

[brickviking]

It is the very definition of anecdotal. Having hard numbers doesn't change that, "anecdotal" doesn't mean "probably made up", it means "small sample of non-scientifically-selected data". It's a single sample of data. And at that, a single sample that would be perfect to cherry-pick, given the charitable nature of the Humble Bundle (the EFF being very popular among Free Software advocates).

One sample? I'm only one person, and a private individual at that I counted 26 examples in that chart spread over almost three years where Linux users chose to pay more than their counterparts. I'm trying hard to comply with what someone else requested: provide them with more of a reason they could take to the table. It's the best example I can provide where I've had direct personal experience. I don't typically buy Linux software—I don't normally have to. Anyhow, it's obvious this part of the discussion shouldn't be about semantics.

(Post 8)

 

[PhilHibbs]

One sample? I'm only one person, and a private individual at that I counted 26 examples in that chart spread over almost three years where Linux users chose to pay more than their counterparts. I'm trying hard to comply with what someone else requested: provide them with more of a reason they could take to the table.

It's one product, with extremely strong charitable connections. It's how much various OS users users paid for "Humble Bundle" products. The statistics are very interesting, but you said it isn't anecdotal, when it clearly is anecdotal. That's my only criticism. You can't just directly extrapolate Humble Bundle charitable contributions into a general trend of "how much money there is to make from Linux gamers".

 

[Nerixel]

It's one product, with extremely strong charitable connections. It's how much various OS users users paid for "Humble Bundle" products. The statistics are very interesting, but you said it isn't anecdotal, when it clearly is anecdotal. That's my only criticism. You can't just directly extrapolate Humble Bundle charitable contributions into a general trend of "how much money there is to make from Linux gamers".

He can still indirectly do it, and claim there's a clear link between the two, which I'd completely agree with.

 

[PhilHibbs]

He can still indirectly do it, and claim there's a clear link between the two, which I'd completely agree with.

I don't have a problem with that, but if someone presents anecdotal evidence and says it isn't anecdotal then I'll call them out on it.

 

[Nerixel]

I don't have a problem with that, but if someone presents anecdotal evidence and says it isn't anecdotal then I'll call them out on it.

I don't see how arguing about anecdotalness or not is relevant to this.

 

[Uristqwerty]

One sample? I'm only one person, and a private individual at that I counted 26 examples in that chart spread over almost three years where Linux users chose to pay more than their counterparts. I'm trying hard to comply with what someone else requested: provide them with more of a reason they could take to the table. It's the best example I can provide where I've had direct personal experience. I don't typically buy Linux software—I don't normally have to. Anyhow, it's obvious this part of the discussion shouldn't be about semantics.

(Post 8)

That could just as easily indicate that users who chose to pay more were more likely to select Linux as (one of) their operating system(s). Or that users who chose to pay the minimum were more likely to select Windows (or leave it selected, if it is the default).

Furthermore, the set of people who are likely to buy a bundle is not the same as the set of people who play FTB, though there is some overlap.

Finally, do those statistics relate OS to charity percentage? It's possible that Linux users were also likely to set their allocation to entirely charity, so the average amount recieved by the developers could be much closer between the OSs than the average total payment.

 

[Captainnana]

To be honest I find this humble bundle discussion irrelevant. At the end of the day its 1% of our current userbase so I can understand Curse being reluctant to spend time/money supporting that (I'm not allowed to discuss why that's costly but it is - essentially it's not just a minecraft client) but the point I'm trying to get across here is: It doesn't matter. If Curse don't support Linux. I will. Or someone will, again it doesn't matter, Curse have committed to an API that will allow other launchers to work using the a new API for CurseForge, downloads of the whole modpacks will also be available as I understand it so even if Curse don't support Linux it doesn't matter because someone will be able to implement a installer that does work on Linux.

EDIT:

To clarify those figures:
1.2% Linux
7.2% Mac
91.6% Windows

 

[nick1wasd]

(Post 8)

I have a question, why do you number your posts? with the whole "(Post #)"

 

[Nerixel]

I have a question, why do you number your posts? with the whole "(Post #)"

Why don't you?
(post $postcount)

 

[Lawbroken]

Y U NO STAY ON TOPIC!

Spoiler: Topic

 

[Yusunoha]

Y U NO STAY ON TOPIC!

Spoiler: Topic

there was a topic?