Forge compatible shared banlist( thread closed because of trolls) sign up for beta
- Thread starter zbayne
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I have multiple worries with any system even remotely based off of the trainwreck that is MCBans, but my biggest concern is that you are putting a lot of faith in server admins and owners. Whether you imagine them to be paragons of justice and equality or not, they can and will abuse their power in a situation like this. I'd like to know how you guys plan on dealing with this.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
I guess I should apologise to Louis and Zach, I was a bit over the top earlier.
If you're hear for constructive criticism, then I point you to my earlier questions.
For the record, I actually support your idea and what you're doing- Just the past reputation of similar plugins, and a lack of answers for some pretty fundamental questions would give anyone doubts about the project.
If I was pitching this idea, and didn't know that info- you would express the same doubt, or just walk out. You're trying to sell an idea, if you can't explain some core details, no-ones going to buy it regardless of how good that idea is.
If you're hear for constructive criticism, then I point you to my earlier questions.
For the record, I actually support your idea and what you're doing- Just the past reputation of similar plugins, and a lack of answers for some pretty fundamental questions would give anyone doubts about the project.
If I was pitching this idea, and didn't know that info- you would express the same doubt, or just walk out. You're trying to sell an idea, if you can't explain some core details, no-ones going to buy it regardless of how good that idea is.
Yes.
Because abuse by admins would absolutely never happen....
[/sarc]
You're kidding me right?
Going to have to agree with this.
I do not want someone so prone to pidgeonholing anywhere near a project such as this.
The project will reflect the person and be abused to hell and back.
And they say the Joker's a bad guy.
I salute you, sir!
Well said, I wouldn't trust this guy managing a global ban list, considering he can't even control his own temper.
Once this is out, it's up to you whether you want to use it or not.
If you don't like me...that's fine, it's a completely valid reason not to use the service.
The developers who are working on this are happy to continue and are optimistic about the future and what is to come. It's something that's been a long time in the planning, and it's starting to come together nicely.
One thing that has come up a lot is McBans. I agree that it has a few faults, but in principle you can see what the developers wanted to do and where it went wrong.
The system would work if it wasn't so oversubscribed. A small group of servers could easily feed off the same ban list. One of the key features we are implementing is the ability to keep your ban lists small.
That way you only have to recieve bans from the servers you trust. They could have admins who you are friends with or people you have met along the way. There is no obligation to recieve information from servers who you deem unreliable. It's opt-in, not opt-out so you choose who you want to get info from, not who you don't.
Another issue with McBans is the good-will of the server staff. I personally think that not enough is done to validate and control the content that is being stored on McBans' systems. This can be linked to oversubscribtion but in the end without any real validation any fully automatic system can be flooded with spam. In McBans' case it's the number of immature staff on servers who unjustly ban players.
We will combat this in two ways.
We will make sure that every server is checked and validated. This includes the servers information being filled out with style of play, ambitions, among other fields. As well as a member of the moderation team verifying this information manually.
We will also verify all the staff on a server. Although a player may be opped, they will not be allowed to submit bans for the server unless they are approved by us. The approval process involves filling out information, and working through scenarios. They will ultimately have to be judged by a moderator, but I would imagine the pass rate to be high.
So these are some of the things we are doing, please remember that we aren't McBans with your posts.
If you have any questions or issues you can directly PM me if needed.
I'm glad you all have something to say and that you all feel there is something we can improve here.
If you don't like me...that's fine, it's a completely valid reason not to use the service.
The developers who are working on this are happy to continue and are optimistic about the future and what is to come. It's something that's been a long time in the planning, and it's starting to come together nicely.
One thing that has come up a lot is McBans. I agree that it has a few faults, but in principle you can see what the developers wanted to do and where it went wrong.
The system would work if it wasn't so oversubscribed. A small group of servers could easily feed off the same ban list. One of the key features we are implementing is the ability to keep your ban lists small.
That way you only have to recieve bans from the servers you trust. They could have admins who you are friends with or people you have met along the way. There is no obligation to recieve information from servers who you deem unreliable. It's opt-in, not opt-out so you choose who you want to get info from, not who you don't.
Another issue with McBans is the good-will of the server staff. I personally think that not enough is done to validate and control the content that is being stored on McBans' systems. This can be linked to oversubscribtion but in the end without any real validation any fully automatic system can be flooded with spam. In McBans' case it's the number of immature staff on servers who unjustly ban players.
We will combat this in two ways.
We will make sure that every server is checked and validated. This includes the servers information being filled out with style of play, ambitions, among other fields. As well as a member of the moderation team verifying this information manually.
We will also verify all the staff on a server. Although a player may be opped, they will not be allowed to submit bans for the server unless they are approved by us. The approval process involves filling out information, and working through scenarios. They will ultimately have to be judged by a moderator, but I would imagine the pass rate to be high.
So these are some of the things we are doing, please remember that we aren't McBans with your posts.
If you have any questions or issues you can directly PM me if needed.
I'm glad you all have something to say and that you all feel there is something we can improve here.
Celestialphoenix said:
Hope the above post answered a few of those, to answer a few more.
-The server will be managed by a credible host that I have a management position with.
-We're not sure just yet, this will happen when we release a controlled beta test. I imagine a panel of server owners and administrators or other people in the know will be involved.
-It's going to be tough, and we can't garuntee that we'll stay on top of them all but we'll try.
-Same as Q.2
-Each player will be able to see their profile from the website and if they are banned from a server they will be notified by a kick message to check that profile.
-Players are banned, not IPs or Gamenames. We will do our best in blocking proxies and alts.
So that should answer your questions.
Thank you for clarifiying our points, I will agree that the blind faith in MC Bans was a huge issue. While I may not trust such a system, I'm more than willing to provide criticism to make sure it works well. I still worry exactly how you'll handle admin abuse, but other than that you settled some of my doubts. Thank you, and good luck with this project.
*bows*
The plus side to madness is not having to act consistantly.
[DOUBLEPOST=1357567787][/DOUBLEPOST]
This response is a slight bit better than "If you follow the rules you have nothing to fear schtick. But I will say, I much prefer rigid realism to optimism.[DOUBLEPOST=1357567863][/DOUBLEPOST]Especially from someone heading the idea of a tool such as this.
I thought the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting it t turn out differently~.
Love you, Vaas~!
If there's one man who can be many things, it's you, Mr J~.That's one defintion amongst many.
So don't use it. I'm not gonna argue with you, it is server opt in system, if you don't like it don't use it on your server or complain to the server you play on, But other then that your criticism has not been constructive and to continue arguing is a waste of both of our time, you are welcome to offer suggestions but to say I should give up on my project all together because you don't like it is something I simply don't have time for.
Thanks,
zbayne
Sorry I have been out of town so let me reply, ignoring much of what this thread has become, the Central server will be managed the developers of the project, there will be little to no moderation by anyone in the global since. The only tool I intend on building in on my side is completely local to the server running my tool, as such I not any of our developers will be handling any ban appeals, This is going to be a ban aggregation system, my personal server will have a list that other server can subscribe to or they can not and subscribe to louiskw server or they could let others subscribe to there list instead, The idea is that servers can team up and trust each other and from that players can build a reputation. My intention of informing players is more or less left up to the server owners, via the mod config they can have it set up to kick them with a link to where they can appeal which will be handled by the server owner, this could be a forum,email or some other system that the list owner would like. I have no plan at this time in dealing with multiple account, this could be added later but it is not my current concern nor do I have a plan for this at the moment. let me know if I missed anything.
To address some other things, this thread was meant to hash out idea's and figure out the best way to implement a system where servers to not have to start from day one with players that are damaging. When I started playing minecraft I played on a great server that had awesome people and life was grand so I got the idea to run my server and the first few days where hell that could have been so much better if I could have trusted that severs list of users who make the opening a server hard. I have seen people sharing ban lists although rare and not managed and even before coming to minecraft I played urt and saw what a terrible and hard job the uaa had but what came out of that was a ban sharing system that was complicated to set up but was completely done by the people running the server. And thus the over arching goal that I have when developing this is to implement that idea but maybe add a pretty website that does everything for you. Me, louiskw and anyone else working on this have more the enough things to do as it is then worry about the some power grab to keep you from playing the game
At the moment there is a working mod that overrides vanilla ban methods and I am working towards the goal of making them make calls to a api for out system but other then that there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of things to do to make it the system I want it to be. constructive criticism is welcome.
I see what you're saying kid.
But then I instantly forget it because it's obviously as "well thought out" as the rest of this project.
I don't care whether you give up on it or not and I never told you to do so, though deep down I wish you would so I wouldn't be reminded of this concept every time I come here.
Also, you need to look up the definition of constructive criticism. All my points were valid. Just because you don't like hearing it doesn't make it any less constructive and other people seem to agree with my points.
More so than yours.
I'm done with this now, so to erase you juveniles from my mind, I'm blocking you and unwatching the thread. Good riddance to bad, poorly developed rubbish.
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