Finite Water?

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How do you feel about finite water?


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Azzanine

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Jul 29, 2019
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they are both block based 3D voxel games, that is enough for the water to be able to be alike

terrarria and starbound have the falling sand model with a horizontal slope minimal slope,

dwarf fortress has connecting vats

while minecraft has source blocks and flowing blocks...
Played both and your computer utterly dies if a huge volume of sand/ gravel is shifted. Don't trust me? go to a desert planet in Starbound and find one of those sand caverns and try it. Imagine if it had to calculate in an extra dimension.
 

ratchet freak

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2012
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Played both and your computer utterly dies if a huge volume of sand/ gravel is shifted. Don't trust me? go to a desert planet in Starbound and find one of those sand caverns and try it. Imagine if it had to calculate in an extra dimension.
well if you want to know how dwarf fortress makes its water flow look at this interview near the bottom, you can implement it entirely with the available space of 2 block ids and 16 bits of meta data each
 

YX33A

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Jul 29, 2019
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they are both block based 3D voxel games, that is enough for the water to be able to be alike

terrarria and starbound have the falling sand model with a horizontal slope minimal slope,

dwarf fortress has connecting vats

while minecraft has source blocks and flowing blocks...
They are made by different companies, as a reminder. Seriously, why is this hard for people to understand. They are insanely different, even with the "3d Voxel based game" bit connecting them.
Also:
they are both block based 3D voxel games~.

Dwarf Fortress... 3d voxel based game?

Does not compute
. It is neither 3d nor voxel based.
 

ratchet freak

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Nov 11, 2012
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forget the graphics for a sec

there is x, y and z; it's 3D

the physics and geometry are based on large blocks in the world that's voxels

ergo dwarf fortress is a 3D voxel based game
 

Azzanine

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Jul 29, 2019
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forget the graphics for a sec

there is x, y and z; it's 3D

the physics and geometry are based on large blocks in the world that's voxels

ergo dwarf fortress is a 3D voxel based game

It's like you don't know you are comparing apples to oranges, or you do but you are satisfied that the fact that they are both fruit makes them the same...
 
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ratchet freak

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Nov 11, 2012
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and for the purpose of this topic I only need to compare fruitness, if I had more time I'm sure I could hammer out a DF style water mod
 

YX33A

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Jul 29, 2019
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forget the graphics for a sec

there is x, y and z; it's 3D

the physics and geometry are based on large blocks in the world that's voxels

ergo dwarf fortress is a 3D voxel based game
Voxels ARE the graphics, mate. Period. Forget the graphics? Then we can't say it's a Voxel based game either.
and for the purpose of this topic I only need to compare fruitness, if I had more time I'm sure I could hammer out a DF style water mod
As a reminder, you'll need a large chunk of time, and a willingness to break every mod you want to use with this DF style water mod to make said DF style water mod a reality; you will have to write the water engine from the ground up, as a reminder. Minecraft water works the way it does because it's a first person game with a crap engine that barely works but is being improved years after it's inception, aka a "too little too late" approach. If you can code the DF water mod you want for Minecraft, you are liable to be recruited to the Mojang team ASAP.
 

immibis

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Jul 29, 2019
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did you miss the dwarf fortress comments? that has more realistic water over a simulated over a large area (about half the current player loading area voxel to voxel IIRC)
Do you have any idea how slow that gets when you have just a few artificial waterfalls?

Also it would have problems with Minecraft's infinite map size. What if you make a 1000x2x1 tunnel, then open one end under a 3000-water-block lake?
 
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ProfessorMudkip

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Jul 29, 2019
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Do you have any idea how slow that gets when you have just a few artificial waterfalls?

Also it would have problems with Minecraft's infinite map size. What if you make a 1000x2x1 tunnel, then open one end under a 3000-water-block lake?
That's a pretty small lake. The lake in the op is 14000 blocks and it's rather small. I don't think people realize how much water actually exists in the Minecraft world. Even with finite water, there is still a massive abundance of water. If you settle next to an ocean, it is essentially infinite. The challenge is to settle near lakes or rivers and learn to manage it as a resource.

It is more enjoyable for me to have to an efficient infrastructure system over finite bodies of water and have to intelligently manage the water, rather than build a few Aqueous Accumulators and be set for life. Of course, this is personal preference and it is understandable that people prefer the easier method.

4 words.. Rain.
Although this could be an interesting mechanic to have renewable water when you have reached very high technology, the current implementation is low-tech rapid water generation.

The Hoover dam opened in 1936 and has been running since then. How "realistic" is finite water in Minecraft? Seems like it would just create a mess and a lot of lag.
I've given a lot of thought on how to program #1, and every solution I come up with runs into a roadblock. Its just too CPU intensive.
Use the Ender-Thermic Pump? It seems to be more performance friendly than the Buildcraft pump.

2) Draining large bodies of water needs to be a lot harder. Right now its too simple to drain a lake with small pumps.
This can be semi-addressed by minetweakering the Enderpump recipe, but I agree that it is far too easy.
 

Someone Else 37

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Feb 10, 2013
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And the bandwidth needed for that kind of data.
It'll have to be SSP only.

Even then- how accurately do you want to emulate water physics?
There's a fairly neat physics sandbox game called Phun Physics- you can simulate "water" but
-its 2D only
-water is compressible and bouncy. (working an incompressible fluid is significantly harder).​
that aside; 'water' is calculated as individual circles with a pinprick hitbox for interacting with solids and the full circle hitbox for fluid collisions.
There's then an optional shader for more fluid-like animation.
It seems to flow ok; but I lack the CPU power for decent sized bodies of water​
Fun fact: Phun's successor, Algodoo, has (nearly) incompressible water. And lasers. And they made it free a while back, like Phun.
 
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Explosion_Pro

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Jul 29, 2019
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1) There is no official pack for this, read the first post to see what configs to change to play like this.
2) Posting in a thread that is 3 months old is called a necropost and is generally frowned upon in most forum communities, try to avoid doing it.
thanks
 

darkeshrine

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Jul 29, 2019
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What they should do is make a distinction between ocean water and fresh water and make it so ocean water can't or shouldn't be used in machines (corrosion from salt water and all). The ocean can be infinite and rivers and lakes can be finite.
I agree with this. To be honest, even finite water isn't much different. It's like finite cobble/dirt/sand, there's such a large quantity of it that finite still doesn't seem like enough of a restriction. All finite water does is make it more tedious now that you have to go out and manually gather it.
 

Celestialphoenix

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Nov 9, 2012
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Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
I agree with this. To be honest, even finite water isn't much different. It's like finite cobble/dirt/sand, there's such a large quantity of it that finite still doesn't seem like enough of a restriction. All finite water does is make it more tedious now that you have to go out and manually gather it.
If you decide to manually gather it- that'll be your choice to make your game tedious.

I'm thinking more improving gameplay by making [fresh] water valuable. Stuff like ExNhilo barrels, Forestry raintanks, Railcraft towers ect would actually be a part of the game, rather an an obscure block that no-one knows about.
-Its renewable, and fully automatable; yet its possible to run out. (bringing in designs for efficiency/recycling)

There's 'infinite' water available, but you can't move an infinite amount [MC buckets]- building an actual pumping station to take water from where it is to where its needed is a fair design challenge.
 

darkeshrine

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Jul 29, 2019
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If you decide to manually gather it- that'll be your choice to make your game tedious.

I'm thinking more improving gameplay by making [fresh] water valuable. Stuff like ExNhilo barrels, Forestry raintanks, Railcraft towers ect would actually be a part of the game, rather an an obscure block that no-one knows about.
-Its renewable, and fully automatable; yet its possible to run out. (bringing in designs for efficiency/recycling)

There's 'infinite' water available, but you can't move an infinite amount [MC buckets]- building an actual pumping station to take water from where it is to where its needed is a fair design challenge.
"Manual" as in setting up a bunch of pumps only to have to move them around later. It's not much different from pumping lava from the nether.

As for collecting rain, because it's a fairly good idea, in Minecraft it doesn't rain a lot. I'd see having to make quite a few barrels/raintanks/etc to go off of it.
 

Celestialphoenix

Too Much Free Time
Nov 9, 2012
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Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
As for collecting rain, because it's a fairly good idea, in Minecraft it doesn't rain a lot. I'd see having to make quite a few barrels/raintanks/etc to go off of it.
And recycling as well- I'd like to see a 'condenser' block you can attach to steam engines/turbines that returns most the water.
(a few turbines already do this actually- though it gets overlooked a lot)