Finite Water?

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How do you feel about finite water?


  • Total voters
    84

GreenZombie

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2,404
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I was thinking about finite water, and came up with

1. you could leave the existing water mechanics largely alone. Just make it so that a bucket cannot pick up a water source block. Placing a bucket of water in the world would place a "splash" of water as though a source block had been placed and removed, so it would extinguish fires, upset crops, but quickly wash away.

2. make water source blocks "indestructable" - placing a (For exammple) dirt block where a source block is, would regenerate the source block alongside - or on top - of the dirt block.

The goal of these changes is to make intersecting with water while caving a more challenging experience - you can't just "delete" water by replacing it with dirt - it needs to be damned, or channeled.
 

rhn

Too Much Free Time
Nov 11, 2013
5,711
4,419
333
I am sort of ok with the infinite water. After all on a grand scale we got "near infinite" water in RL. Of course we cant just dig a 2x2x1m hole and fill it with water and then pump water out of it forever. But we can with the right knowledge dig wells or create water collection areas. But mimicking rainwater collecting and forming rivers and lakes, forming underwater rivers and streams etc is extremely impractical in MC(it is very very complicated stuff!).

So I rather have infinite water to give the illusion of water seeping through the soil and levelling out the water or filling out "holes" in the ocean etc.
 

MoosyDoosy

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
593
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Commented other because the votes were 3, 3, 11, 11, 2. The 2 stood out too much so I had to make it 3. :)
On the other hand, finite water sounds interesting, but I just don't feel like putting too much effort into getting water. Good idea, but I'm too lazy.
 

fatherjimbo

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
14
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0
The Hoover dam opened in 1936 and has been running since then. How "realistic" is finite water in Minecraft? Seems like it would just create a mess and a lot of lag.
 
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ratchet freak

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2012
1,198
243
79
The Hoover dam opened in 1936 and has been running since then. How "realistic" is finite water in Minecraft? Seems like it would just create a mess and a lot of lag.
you would need aquifers and rain filled puddles for true realistic water mechanics, and what do you know dwarf fortress has had that for years now
 

pderuiter

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
254
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0
take a look at how Dwarf Fortress does it. And then take a look at how much performance that costs
you would need aquifers and rain filled puddles for true realistic water mechanics, and what do you know dwarf fortress has had that for years now
I shudder at the idea of having aquifers in minecraft.
 

Golrith

Over-Achiever
Trusted User
Nov 11, 2012
3,838
2,142
248
Used finite water in my pack, and TBH, it only delays your early game play. Combined with lower resources, a Railcraft Water Tower becomes the first source of water. Before that point, I must have drained a small lake.
I also changed the Aq Accum recipe so it requires a buildcraft pump. A drastic increase in iron requirements (which hurts with reduced resources). I also reduced it's water generation to 25% of normal.
Unfortunately the Liquid Transfer Node can't be adjusted for it's generation rate.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,349
7,216
383
Waterloo, Ontario
Finite Water as a concept (not a specific existing mod) is probably one of my biggest requests for a "better minecraft", with a few caveats:
1) Good physics required. This means it needs to somehow handle "rivers" nicely, flowing downhill, and no magical bucket-on-a-tower-sourceblock-fountains allowed. No "source" blocks allowed.
2) Draining large bodies of water needs to be a lot harder. Right now its too simple to drain a lake with small pumps.

I've given a lot of thought on how to program #1, and every solution I come up with runs into a roadblock. Its just too CPU intensive.
 
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fatherjimbo

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
14
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Finite Water as a concept (not a specific existing mod) is probably one of my biggest requests for a "better minecraft
It wouldn't add anything for me and I'm struggling to see the point. Not that you shouldn't be able to have whatever you want to make the game more enjoyable for you but I just don't see it.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,349
7,216
383
Waterloo, Ontario
It wouldn't add anything for me and I'm struggling to see the point. Not that you shouldn't be able to have whatever you want to make the game more enjoyable for you but I just don't see it.
You may be in the majority here; I hear this a lot.

For me, it lends a few things:
1) More physics = more cool contraptions and mods (Water mills and hydro-dams that can only be set up in sensible places, like rivers and waterfalls)
2) Increased difficulty as an option (if you need water for things, you can't create a magical source for it.)
3) Aesthetics: Running water that obeys physics actually looks nicer when it flows across your landscape than the current "x blocks out from source block" looks.
 

Celestialphoenix

Too Much Free Time
Nov 9, 2012
3,738
3,221
333
Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
Its just too CPU intensive.
And the bandwidth needed for that kind of data.
It'll have to be SSP only.

Even then- how accurately do you want to emulate water physics?
There's a fairly neat physics sandbox game called Phun Physics- you can simulate "water" but
-its 2D only
-water is compressible and bouncy. (working an incompressible fluid is significantly harder).​
that aside; 'water' is calculated as individual circles with a pinprick hitbox for interacting with solids and the full circle hitbox for fluid collisions.
There's then an optional shader for more fluid-like animation.
It seems to flow ok; but I lack the CPU power for decent sized bodies of water.

As an actual game is concerned- its a case of making compromises as needed. Unless you kidnap Rekia and borrow his supercomputer.

The 'magic source blocks' are semi-unrealistic; but seem fairly neat as actual water springs.
There's a lot of ancient folklore about springs being magical- water flowing out of the ground; much needed resource to support life and ancient civilisation not really understanding hydrogeology.
Being able to pick one up and carry it about- not so magical. Certainly not as valuable.
Limited to carrying a 'puddle' of water? The need for pumps to create semi-permanent flows? A total reliance on native water?
- suddenly those sources become a very valuable ''magical' resource.
Result? significant improvements to gameplay.​
 
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ratchet freak

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2012
1,198
243
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And the bandwidth needed for that kind of data.
It'll have to be SSP only.

Even then- how accurately do you want to emulate water physics?
There's a fairly neat physics sandbox game called Phun Physics- you can simulate "water" but
-its 2D only
-water is compressible and bouncy. (working an incompressible fluid is significantly harder).​
that aside; 'water' is calculated as individual circles with a pinprick hitbox for interacting with solids and the full circle hitbox for fluid collisions.
There's then an optional shader for more fluid-like animation.
It seems to flow ok; but I lack the CPU power for decent sized bodies of water.

As an actual game is concerned- its a case of making compromises as needed. Unless you kidnap Rekia and borrow his supercomputer.

The 'magic source blocks' are semi-unrealistic; but seem fairly neat as actual water springs.
There's a lot of ancient folklore about springs being magical- water flowing out of the ground; much needed resource to support life and ancient civilisation not really understanding hydrogeology.
Being able to pick one up and carry it about- not so magical. Certainly not as valuable.
Limited to carrying a 'puddle' of water? The need for pumps to create semi-permanent flows? A total reliance on native water?
- suddenly those sources become a very valuable ''magical' resource.
Result? significant improvements to gameplay.​
did you miss the dwarf fortress comments? that has more realistic water over a simulated over a large area (about half the current player loading area voxel to voxel IIRC)
 

YX33A

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,764
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did you miss the dwarf fortress comments? that has more realistic water over a simulated over a large area (about half the current player loading area voxel to voxel IIRC)
I've seen dworf fortress. It is nothing like Minecraft, so how can it working there matter in Minecraft terms? Seriously, even if they are both coded in Java and are both voxel based games... so are Terraria and Starbound, they both have working water mechanics yet both are nothing like Minecraft(and only sorta like each other).
 

Azzanine

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2,711
-6
0
Other: I think it does nothing to enhance the game for old hats, too many mods give you endless supplies of water gen. I used to play on a server that was designed to be pointlessly grindy, the admin turned on finite water and I didn't notice for a week as I got my buckets from a tank whacked on an accumulator.
The admins thought I was aware of their plans and was thinking ahead but I wasn't the base I was in at the time had very few lakes nearby and I tend to avoid vanilla infinite water if I can.
Also too many things circumvent finite water, you can fill lakes/oceans up with one of those buildcraft drain thingos.

What they should do is make a distinction between ocean water and fresh water and make it so ocean water can't or shouldn't be used in machines (corrosion from salt water and all). The ocean can be infinite and rivers and lakes can be finite.
 

ratchet freak

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2012
1,198
243
79
I've seen dworf fortress. It is nothing like Minecraft, so how can it working there matter in Minecraft terms? Seriously, even if they are both coded in Java and are both voxel based games... so are Terraria and Starbound, they both have working water mechanics yet both are nothing like Minecraft(and only sorta like each other).
they are both block based 3D voxel games, that is enough for the water to be able to be alike

terrarria and starbound have the falling sand model with a horizontal slope minimal slope,

dwarf fortress has connecting vats

while minecraft has source blocks and flowing blocks...