Does anybody have any info on Thermal Dynamics?

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ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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Some reminscing from an old geezer about the progress of item transportation, feel free to skip it if you don't want to bother:

In the beginning, there was Buildcraft Pipes, and it was good. It was a way for items to go from Point A to Point B without the player manually walking it over, or using some kind of water flow system.

Then Redpower2 came out with the Tubes. While a bit more expensive and complicated to make (requiring an Alloy Furnace to make the Brass, which is a steeper investment than simply two cobble and a piece of glass), but the advantages were worth it. Intelligent routing, taking the shortest path rather than making random decisions at every intersection. The sorting machine could create an actual sorting system. And you could even put a little 'cover' in the same block! as the tube to cover it up! Revolutionary on several levels.

Then Logistic Pipes came out and gave people a reason to use pipes again, but that was more because LP made them functional. BC also came out with facades, which were clumsy and required the newfangled laser system to make in an attempt to keep up with RP2's cover system.

After that, there was a dry spell where people either used RP2 tubes or LP + Pipes, but very rarely used pipes by themselves in anything other than the earliest stages of the game before you could get an alloy smelter going. Until a newcomer showed up. Thermal Expansion with their Conduits. A higher tier of energy transmission. No energy bleed, higher capacity, and for the first time you had an actual battery of MJ. It was like taking the advantages of IC2 EU and applying it to MJ!

Then the Itemducts showed up. And all were awed. Backstuffing mechanic meant no more spilling of items, like Tubes. They didn't start off with FMP compatibility, but that was eventually included, although it wasn't really perfect. So far, they seem like a Tube replacement. Also keep in mind that when they came out, RP2 development had 'stalled', and people were looking for alternatives. Then 1.5 came out and Ducts came into their own. Not just items, but now fluiducts and different tiers of energy conduits. It was a complete overhaul, and was everything that everyone was looking for in item transportation. Pipes were largely forgotten, except for those who used the new version of LP after the original mod author left. You had item, fluid, and energy transmission, as elegant as you please, with no worrying about items spilling out or having to blow diamonds on every intersection for proper routing AND you had built-in the capacity for auto-pulling/pushing without a need for engines or redstone signals.

Pipes are now seen as 'feature-starved'. They let stuff fall all over the place, intersections cause the whole system to go wonky, they require kludgy secondary systems to get them to function even half as well as ducts do. Tubes are nowhere to be seen.

Around this time is when EnderIO first started showing up, but it had a marginal audience. Everyone was so in love with TE that any other mod that tried to do something similar was branded 'copycat' or just 'why bother when I have TE?'. Still, it was a novel concept that a few people, like the newly formed Resonant Rise pack, started playing around with. ExtraUtils also had a piping system, but while many enjoyed ExtraUtils, they largely ignored this system in favor of ducts.

Now that 1.7 has come around, and Conduits are not currently a Thing, more people check out EnderIO's conduits. And they are amazing! You can have items, fluids, energy, and redstone signals all running in the same block! You've got all the routing possibilities that TE ducts had, plus more advanced sorting capabilities. You didn't get to see items zipping around, true, but the capabilities of the system were simply staggering.

What I want to see when Thermal Dynamics comes out? The one feature that I would dream of? Logistics Ducts. Like LP, but based on TD rather than BC.
 

ratchet freak

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Nov 11, 2012
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From that I read that you can only get ahead in the item transport is by doing something more useful (no spilling+intelligent routing in RP2 or the logistics auto suplying and routing)

or have the previous "ruler" be not be updated for the current version, RP2 and logistics pipes both hit a snag around the same version and lost the crown to TE ducts and AE a bit later
 

King Lemming

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BC pipes have one thing going for them: actually seeing the items zoom about in the pipes is a great. And yes, TE ducts did that too, but the duct texture was so clumsy that you could only see half the item, and in the accelerated ones even less.

I agree with you. You can still see items move in TD ducts, but we've cheated a bit on the texture to make it work. It's pretty important that we keep it "Minecrafty," but in this instance we've upscaled to 32x to allow for more of a viewing window.
 

Vaeliorin

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BC pipes have one thing going for them: actually seeing the items zoom about in the pipes is a great. And yes, TE ducts did that too, but the duct texture was so clumsy that you could only see half the item, and in the accelerated ones even less.
Mekanism pipes give you good view of the items and intelligent routing. Honestly, they're probably my favorite pipe system. I just wish there were more systems than could give you access to all your items at a centralized location besides LP and AE (and maybe there are, but I'm unaware of them.)
 

ljfa

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Mekanism pipes give you good view of the items and intelligent routing. Honestly, they're probably my favorite pipe system. I just wish there were more systems than could give you access to all your items at a centralized location besides LP and AE (and maybe there are, but I'm unaware of them.)
ProjectRed pipes. They're very similar to Logistics Pipes, but not as sophisticated.
 

Inaeo

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I came into the modded scene in Monster 1.6.4, so I missed the glory days of BC and RP. I joined some friends who had played extensively with both systems before, and was told without question the best pipes were TE. Without anything to compare against, I dove into TE and it was a nice entry level mod (I mean no offense by that) with a wonderful combination of simplicity and functionality.

It wasn't long before my curiosity had me looking into other mods in the pack, and my love of EIO began. TE ducts still had their place in my builds, but it was mostly in proof of concept builds in a warehouse I had built to test new (to me) Minecraft theories. EIO, being more compact, was used in more finished work in the real builds.

Frankly, there was room enough for both systems, and in my brain, each had their place. There still is. But what I don't want to see is an arms race to have the "best" pipes. Having "One pipe system to rule them all" is bad for business, and I'm glad @King Lemming seems to believe that too. So long as each system has a unique flair, each will have its place.

Now in 1.7 Resurrection, I have neither TD (which may be added when it is released?) nor EIO. I'm playing with BC pipes and Bluepower tubes for the first time, and after a small period of adjustment, I've decided once again that they each have strong points in situations where the other struggled to accomplish the task. Hell, I even have a new appreciation for XU nodes due to being forced to find a solution for my tube needs. My friend (and server owner) gives me crap for using all three in concert in my sorting system, but I'm happy I had the new problems to troubleshoot - its why Minecraft continues to be fun for me.
 
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ljfa

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@xTordX is (or at least was) considering removing EnderIO from his pack in favor of Thermal Expansion and Thermal Dynamics.
 

xTordX

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Yes, i'm still considering that. WHY THE HECK DOES IT TAKE SO LONG TO MAKE THIS MOD?!
 

King Lemming

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Yes, i'm still considering that. WHY THE HECK DOES IT TAKE SO LONG TO MAKE THIS MOD?!

We want it done right, extensible, as bug free as possible, Minecrafty, balanced, and engaging.

Most mods never actually get to that point, especially the "Minecrafty" part. Also, the whole RL time constraint thing. I was in my laboratory running tests during the Super Bowl last night, for perspective. It is not a minor thing. Zeldo now works for Curse, and he's got a crazy busy schedule. RWTema had to come in, learn the existing codebase, discuss what we envisioned for the mod, and then implement it. And then, he went way above and beyond and added some stuff that's just really cool.

I'm using my approximately 2-3 hours of freetime every week to polish/bugfix what we've got. Sorry you're tired of waiting, but that's just how it goes in this case. It's far preferable that we get it right with the first release than have to go through a major secondary bugfix phase.
 

Bagman817

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BC had no features that other mods didn't do better

Pretty much this. To be fair, the Filler is super useful, and the Builder is quite cool (although of limited usefulness), but I'm not going to include a mod for a couple blocks. All due respect to @asiekierka , but past iterations of BC have generated enough bad will (speaking personally) that I'm unlikely to include it in a pack in the foreseeable future. Many, if not all, of the problems I had with it may well have been resolved, but I've yet to see enough 'must have' things in the mod to make me bother to explore it.

To try and bring this back on topic, I'm personally glad that the absence of TE ducts forced me to explore other options. I never played with Ender IO previously, and I'm really enjoying it. I get why some people hate on the 'many pipes in one block' bit, but I love the ability to make my builds that much cleaner.
 

xTordX

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We want it done right, extensible, as bug free as possible, Minecrafty, balanced, and engaging.

Most mods never actually get to that point, especially the "Minecrafty" part. Also, the whole RL time constraint thing. I was in my laboratory running tests during the Super Bowl last night, for perspective. It is not a minor thing. Zeldo now works for Curse, and he's got a crazy busy schedule. RWTema had to come in, learn the existing codebase, discuss what we envisioned for the mod, and then implement it. And then, he went way above and beyond and added some stuff that's just really cool.

I'm using my approximately 2-3 hours of freetime every week to polish/bugfix what we've got. Sorry you're tired of waiting, but that's just how it goes in this case. It's far preferable that we get it right with the first release than have to go through a major secondary bugfix phase.

Oh. I'm really sorry then. I didn't hear any bews about the developing of the mod. Now i'm certain it will be amazing and i prefer waiting for a better product.
As a texturer i can say even that takes a lot of time.
 

King Lemming

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To try and bring this back on topic, I'm personally glad that the absence of TE ducts forced me to explore other options. I never played with Ender IO previously, and I'm really enjoying it. I get why some people hate on the 'many pipes in one block' bit, but I love the ability to make my builds that much cleaner.

Exactly! There's room in the sandbox for everyone. :) I think lots of EIO is well done. I just can't stand to look at it due to the quasi-uncanny-valley effect. It doesn't look Minecrafty and removes me from the game entirely. It also doesn't feel balanced to me - be aware that is MY OPINION. I just have certain feelings on it and it's the same sort of reason that TE did machine upgrades the way that it did, and why the machines aren't the fastest nor most productive. They are, however, Minecrafty.

Oh. I'm really sorry then. I didn't hear any bews about the developing of the mod. Now i'm certain it will be amazing and i prefer waiting for a better product.
As a texturer i can say even that takes a lot of time.

No apology necessary - it's a completely reasonable question and stance! I've tried to keep it mostly under wraps just because I don't want it hyped and then have RL or a bug crop up again. You'll know when it comes out, I promise. But don't get your hopes too high in terms of raw "power" - none of us on the team are fans of an "omniduct" style solution. It trivializes the rest of the mod and damages gameplay, so we didn't want an obvious "best" duct. And there should be *some* thought behind wiring.

I recognize there are times where you need to move all 3 things through a certain block - that's what Tesseracts are for. When every duct is a Tesseract though, it removes too much of the thought behind planning an elegant factory. Design is fun. ;)
 

xTordX

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Jul 29, 2019
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Oh please! I don't like EIO pipes exactly because of that. That and, just like you, the feel. I like TE for its minecrafty feel. I hate ither tech mods for the factory look. I don't need überpipes! For me you might as well not change anything but port the pipes! They're perfect!
I can hardly wait for TD so i can get rid of the "replacement mods" i use instead of CoFH.
To be exact:
-EIO instead of TE and TD
-Progressive automation instead of MFR
-i don't hve anything for the resstone-powered tools and armour :(
 

ShneekeyTheLost

Too Much Free Time
Dec 8, 2012
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Oh please! I don't like EIO pipes exactly because of that. That and, just like you, the feel. I like TE for its minecrafty feel. I hate ither tech mods for the factory look. I don't need überpipes! For me you might as well not change anything but port the pipes! They're perfect!
I can hardly wait for TD so i can get rid of the "replacement mods" i use instead of CoFH.
To be exact:
-EIO instead of TE and TD
-Progressive automation instead of MFR
-i don't hve anything for the resstone-powered tools and armour :(
Uuummm... in case you didn't know, MFR and Redstone Arsenal are already out for 1.7.10. Also, TE already also exists.
 

PierceSG

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Right tools for the right job.

I like EIO. I miss TE ducts. I still use BC pipes. I have Pressure Pipes installed. Not to mention XU transfer pipes and nodes as well. I even uses ChickenBones Translocator (I love this little piece of gem) due to the fact I could set it to keep an inventory to a certain amount. Can any of the other mods mentioned above (except Thermal Dynamics, which isn't out yet) do that?

P.S. MFR conveyor belts too! Thanks to someone (sorry, I forgot the name. >. <), I now uses the belts to feed my field of Endoflames.