[Discussion] Creating player investment while extending gameplay
- Thread starter ShneekeyTheLost
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fwiw I'm totally lurking this thread to steal further ideas for IT3. Surprising maybe given Shneekey's own opinion of the modpack's mechanics, but he's a smart dude and a lot of his ideas translate across modpacks or can be adapted.
Easy modpacking: Make mod pack, throw Shneekey at it, and see what falls off.
I actually didn't mind IT2 until I ran into a problem which was a basic mechanic of GT about how ores are silly in their distribution and there was no conveyance as to how I can obtain said ores, and it seemed like every time I was in a decent spot, my entire infrastructure chain became completely and hopelessly obsolete and I needed to tear everything down and start fresh. Again. About the only thing I could keep from converting from Steam to LV was the LV Steam Turbine and the steam production, to run my LV machines on Steam power, but I couldn't do both that and keep my Steam machines running on steam. And the Bronze Blast Furnace was obsolete almost as soon as it was built, and most of the components couldn't be repurposed because I was moving away from Bronze as a material, meaning if I wanted to 'recycle' any of the components, I'd need to break them all the way back down into its component copper and tin.
The rest of the frustration was either the insanely bad luck I was getting or just not understanding the oregen mechanics to get into an actual Tier 3 pick. I had to rely on a shortcut to bootstrap myself into Thaumium.
From what I've gathered, you've solved both of these problems, which means I should probably enjoy IT3 when it comes out.
I'd make a comment, but A) I went for scale before I just got bored of the pack, and B) I lucked into spawning on top of the stronghold and had a chest with stupidly high end loot to get me bootstrapped. (And also I looted multiple villages.)
Having been playing Omnifactory for a bit, some interesting things coming from there that I want to comment on.
* Pre-RF, the pack plays very similar to a traditional GT pack, EXCEPT you have the scanner.
* Omnicoins are an excellent way of rewarding players with something THEY feel relevant without being over the top.
* The synergy between the Scanner and the Omnicoin system is pretty huge. You can buy any ore you want, then scan it with your Scanner (the block module is trivial to make once you have access to sticky resin and gold wires) to find more of it in the world. This is exactly what I was missing from the IT2 playthrough. I really wouldn't call it 'too' easy, but some might.
* Not sure if I like the decision to make the default a cityscape, may have to play around with that a bit and check out the pros and cons. At least it isn't (by default, at least) another skyblock map.
* Not sure if I like Actually Additions and EnderIO in the pack yet. I'll have to see how it trivializes everything when it comes up. Early game, Flax makes wool easy to obtain, at least. AA tends to trivialize early game power generation with Canola, we'll see if this has been nerfed.
* Thermal seems to be the initial RF production technique. If they haven't nerfed Tree Oil, this could also be a stupidly OP early-game energy production method.
* Pre-RF, the pack plays very similar to a traditional GT pack, EXCEPT you have the scanner.
* Omnicoins are an excellent way of rewarding players with something THEY feel relevant without being over the top.
* The synergy between the Scanner and the Omnicoin system is pretty huge. You can buy any ore you want, then scan it with your Scanner (the block module is trivial to make once you have access to sticky resin and gold wires) to find more of it in the world. This is exactly what I was missing from the IT2 playthrough. I really wouldn't call it 'too' easy, but some might.
* Not sure if I like the decision to make the default a cityscape, may have to play around with that a bit and check out the pros and cons. At least it isn't (by default, at least) another skyblock map.
* Not sure if I like Actually Additions and EnderIO in the pack yet. I'll have to see how it trivializes everything when it comes up. Early game, Flax makes wool easy to obtain, at least. AA tends to trivialize early game power generation with Canola, we'll see if this has been nerfed.
* Thermal seems to be the initial RF production technique. If they haven't nerfed Tree Oil, this could also be a stupidly OP early-game energy production method.
I can't comment on the very earliest canola, but I know the atomic reconstructor is considerably more difficult than it was!
Going by what I've seen so far, the pack has covered that stuff quite well. Thermal machines are not straightforward.
They straight up removed the Compression Dynamo, so tree oil is not a thing, and they straight up removed the oil generator from AA as well, so that's not an option either.I can't comment on the very earliest canola, but I know the atomic reconstructor is considerably more difficult than it was!
Looks like the Steam Dynamo is the to-go for early-game. I wonder if you can set up the larger steam turbines from GTCE...
I had a feeling they would have thought about that. Omnifactory seems quite well-thought-out, in my opinion
So, Omnifactory completely bypasses the Steam age of GregTech. I'm... of two minds about that. On the one hand, you're basically relying on other mods for power anyway, or at least the game strongly encourages it, and use a conversion block to run your GT machines off of, effectively, Forge Energy of some sort. While it does get rid of the bronze age grind, it also gets rid of some interesting mechanics and the supposed introduction to machines and what they do. Plus running power off of steam is pretty much the primary method of power generation in the world, so there's an additional level of verisimilitude there.
Also, while AE2 doesn't do fluid autocrafting like RS does, I suppose RS is not particularly stable in a GTech environment, so you have to make do. But you get AE2 stupidly early in the game, which absolutely trivializes storage. And no channels either, so it's a pure resource investment for the interfaces to Automate Them All.
Not sure if I like that decision, really. Thoughts and opinions?
Also, while AE2 doesn't do fluid autocrafting like RS does, I suppose RS is not particularly stable in a GTech environment, so you have to make do. But you get AE2 stupidly early in the game, which absolutely trivializes storage. And no channels either, so it's a pure resource investment for the interfaces to Automate Them All.
Not sure if I like that decision, really. Thoughts and opinions?
I'm gonna say something I've never said before: I wouldn't actually mind trying an ae2 pack w/o channels. I still find the engineering obstacles fun to overcome, but the idea of an entire mid-game base full of AE2 stuff where you don't worry about HOW its going to work sounds kind of fun in a casual tech pack.
That said, IT3 is keeping its channels, so, deal with it kids
Here's my reverse-ask: GT-CE seems to suffer from "you have more energy than you know what to do with", at least my base seems to. If you're NOT going ultra casual, what kind of energy sinks do you implement that don't piss people off and/or just come off as lazy-grind-enforcement?
That said, IT3 is keeping its channels, so, deal with it kids
Here's my reverse-ask: GT-CE seems to suffer from "you have more energy than you know what to do with", at least my base seems to. If you're NOT going ultra casual, what kind of energy sinks do you implement that don't piss people off and/or just come off as lazy-grind-enforcement?
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Energy sink- In my pack I'm going for ones which'll provide a useful function/bonus, rather than ramping up the energy cost of stock mechanics.
I've added some GT5u inspired ore processing to the EBF- which requires two 30 second 'smelts' at 1000Eu/t each. The second smelt gives a bonus 1/3 metal.
Yeah, give me something to sink my power into that functions as a bonus mechanic. IE you don't have to do it that way, but you can and get benefit for it. IE the old school GT, where you could huck everything in a macerator that's fairly cheap, or put it into the more expensive Industrial Grinder and get far more bonus out, for more cost initially into the machine.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Actually stock GTCE has a bit of this mechanic; chanced outputs increase with overclocking
A HV tier macerator will double ore with a 10% bonus
An EV tier macerator will double ore with a 18.5% (I think) bonus.
An EV tier macerator will double ore with a 18.5% (I think) bonus.
I don't really get that personally. Perhaps if you feel you are floating too much power, you need to do more parallel processing? I mean, even before I get into AE, I'm typically running 2-3 Assembly Machines, a Macerator running almost nonstop, Wire Mill, Compressor... if anything, my problem is getting to a stable power situation.
Yeah possibly. I'm playing on a server 100% these days, and its really easy to just "cheat" and let my permanently-running industry take care of things while I'm away, whereas in single-player I'd be more inclined to scale horizontally: 5 Ore Washers, 10 Electrolyzers, etc.
It would still be nice to identify some interesting energy sinks that apply even in a server environment.
For LV tech, try a pair of Macerators and play our favorite game: Ore Double EVERYTHING! Is it necessary? No. Does it make it less necessary to go mining? Yes. Is it an energy sink? HECK YEA!
Set up some rudamentary automation (using conveyor belts, if necessary) to further process stuff. Electrolyzer and Centrifuge, mostly.
Set up a Silicon Processing System, which can be done with LV tech, and just keep it running 24/7. Basic premise is: Cobblegen -> Furnace (Stone) -> Macerator (Stone Dust) -> Centrifuge (Silicon Dioxide) -> Electrolyzer (Silicon + Oxygen).
Alternately, set up a clay production facility and start electrolyzing that. Not only do you get Silicon, you also get Aluminum for your MV tech tree.
Once you hit MV, the Blast Furnace is one hell of an energy sink. Just keep smelting things like Aluminum until the cows came home.
The silicon chain isn't a bad idea. I do find that GT-CE silicon seems to have a higher value/rarity ratio than GT5. Once you begin cranking out tons of circuitry, you go through an awful lot of it. (I'm not 100% sure that's true in Omnifactory really, but I can't imagine its too much different)
The rest I more or less have going already.
The rest I more or less have going already.