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[Discussion] Creating player investment while extending gameplay

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by ShneekeyTheLost, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    Omnifactory requires Silicon to make chipsets for your AE2 system, so you'll need it for every bus and every interface you make. It also provides secondary function of making Oxygen which you're going to need for your Polyethylene production. And while you could Electrolyzer water to make hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen isn't as needed early in the production chain, while you'll need PE for all your chip production.
     
  2. KingTriaxx

    KingTriaxx Forum Addict

    *wistful memories of 1.4.7 power converters*
     
  3. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    There's a CEU and CEF which fulfill the same function, and also doubles as battery storage. Make sure you're making the right one for the conversion you're wanting to do, and the proper voltage you're wanting to convert to.
     
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  4. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    I've got to say, the CEF and CEU are a really nice addition - if you've got a pack where you want to convert one way, or the other, or both, they're very helpful - and the battery storage makes a buffer.
     
  5. KingTriaxx

    KingTriaxx Forum Addict

    I meant from say Buildcraft/RF style power to EU, rather than voltage to voltage.
     
  6. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    That's what they do! The CEU converts GregTech EU to Forge Energy and the CEF does vice versa
     
  7. KingTriaxx

    KingTriaxx Forum Addict

    Ah. Interesting.
     
  8. Celestialphoenix

    Celestialphoenix Too Much Free Time

    Modular Machinery also has Gtech support now- so you can design your own custom multiblock transformers ect...
     
  9. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    Currently recording episodes of a coming Let's Play of Omnifactory. Some quotes to expect:

    "Well, it's a bit of a fixer-upper. The upstairs neighbors are noisy, the basement is a mess, the next door neighbors hold raves every night. But hey, it's got the footprint I need to get started."

    "... and the nickel came from Pentlandite, not to be confused with pedantic, which I'm sure someone or another will also get around to."

    "... and next episode will be the hunt for the red october... er... red stoner... er... redstone. Yea, that one."
     
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  10. Golrith

    Golrith Over-Achiever Trusted User

    Late to the party, but I'm playing OmniFactory, which is my first introduction to GregTech.

    I know that OF has made things "easier" but boy do I keep groaning at the recipe requirements & steps, and the sheer amount of resources to build anything.

    I'm at MV stage, AE has been unlocked (and consists in my world of a storage drive, an interface, and a connection to drawers). I'm constantly found that I'm struggling with power, it's better now that I've got an array of magmatic dynamo's all upgraded to 2nd Tier (so 150 RF/t) each but I found that this was really my biggest gripe with OF. Those are the only power options, and they are pretty darn expensive to build, and to upgrade, along with the questbook not covering any other power option for a long time. With no knowledge of GTCE, I'm relying on the questbook.

    While the work tables make things easier to craft, the LV tier still has too many steps to craft things (looking at you LV pumps), and the assemblers are way to expensive to craft. Personally I also dislike the durability tools to make wires, plates, etc. Most of the time (in most other packs), it's cheaper to manually hammer plates then build a machine and get that making them. That's one of the things I always disable in packs I make, anything that has plates also has recipes using ingots (just more of them). Those tools could easily have been removed from OF with no noticeable effect apart from one less headache for players early on.

    The expense of things is something I find is hampering, especially early on. In my mind I have plans of what I want to build, but the resource cost stops you. I've got rooms planned out with what I want to build, but they are all empty of machinery.

    But, despite the resource cost, I now have a MV ore processing system in place using large arrays of drawers to filter materials to the correct machines with EnderIO cables, along with ExU crafters converting tiny dust to full dusts (cheaper than using packing machines - seriously expensive and a recipe that needs adjusting IMO) so I've got a lot of new materials that I don't have a clue what they are for yet, but at least they are there when I need them.

    I think the approach of using the low tier circuits in many recipes is a good way to ensure basic resources are constantly required, along with more efficient circuit recipes as you progress in your tech infrastructure.

    I do like the ore gen setup, and the scanner. I don't think the scanner should start with any modules, so you have to explore yourself to start with, then you make the modules to find specific blocks.
    Don't honestly see the need for starting in a Lost City, after getting swamped by mobs in the first few days trying to clear a building, I just decided to go peaceful. Mobs don't offer anything, and for me, RNG seems to be against me, I don't find much loot in the buildings to make it worth trying to clear them with mobs spawning, in fact the various terracotta blocks the buildings are made from are more valuable (cheap Aluminium).

    For a pack focusing on automation, I do find it difficult to actually get started with automation.
    I also find that there's also a lot to do, and many times I just stop and think, WTF am I doing now?

    My current project now is a LV metal working room, full of wiremills, compressors, lathes and foil making machines (I forget their name) so that I can keep them all fed with specific resources and have their outputs available to AE, from there, I can then setup the first automated circuit making (assemblers... gah). Once that's built, I'll need to mine a few crates worth of copper, iron & tin to feed it all.


    For all that though, Kudos to the OF pack dev, there has been a lot of thought put into it. The various gates to unlock other mods are smoothly implemented. OmniCoins are also a great idea.
    I'm going to keep going for as long as my sanity lasts though, until the expense of things defeats me.
     
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  11. KingTriaxx

    KingTriaxx Forum Addict

    Suffice to say, your entire suite of complaints is almost entirely 'Because GregTech'. :D

    Lost Cities... it's designed for you do to play later on when you're a bit more established I think, but yeah. Did it include the steam stage? Or go straight to LV?
     
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  12. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    Straight to LV in Omnifactory.

    Can you do the diesel generators from GTCE at MV? I can't remember... those are quite good with both biodiesel and naphtha-derived diesel
     
  13. Golrith

    Golrith Over-Achiever Trusted User

    Yep, straight to LV. There's a steam age in GT? I don't think my sanity would last with that too.

    There are diesel generators (using Canola) which I've reached in the quest tree. I've got an area planned to build that power gen setup.


    But, there are aspects of GTCE that I am finding I do enjoy, ore gen and ore processing. I don't quite get the business about amps? Everything running on 4 amp wires but there are 16 amp ones? Last time I touched EU was back in Tekkit 1.2.5!


    But, I am finding the pack refreshing and a challenge to sink my teeth into, have tried many other recent packs, and they got stale very quickly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  14. KingTriaxx

    KingTriaxx Forum Addict

    GTEU is... seems complicated. There is a steam stage available, which uses... mind breaking amounts of bronze. Ask Shneekey, it's his favorite stage of GT. :D
     
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  15. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    Actually, Omnifactory skips the bronze steam age from GTCE entirely, you go straight into LV from hand tools.

    There's three ways you can scale your energy to multi-thousand RF/t pretty easily.

    1) Steam Dynamos, get three of them. One with a Boiler augment, two with Steam Turbine augment. Steam Turbine on Steam Dynamos quadruple(!) the energy output of that particular dynamo, so for a completely un-upgraded dynamo, it goes from 40 RF/t to 160 RF/t. And one with a boiler augment can sustain two of them, so that's 360 RF/t, with a fairly trivial investment. Now upgrade the dynamos, and stack them up!

    2) Magmatic Dynamo with the augment that makes it require coolant. Hook up to water source of choice, and it increases RF output significantly. Once Gelled Cyotheum goes online and on farm (which won't be until HV tech), it provides an even bigger boost to RF/t production.

    3) Nuismatic Dynamo. No, really, hear me out here. They normally run on coins, but there's an upgrade that lets them run on gems, that also dramatically increases RF/t. Now, boot up Deep Mob Learning, and hook it up with a Shulker card (you'll have to start off with something like a Zombie card, then make some netherrack, make probably a blaze card to get some nether essence, then make the outworldian essence using that). Pristine Shulker Essence provides diamonds. Stupid amounts of RF/t. You'll need to set up the Polymer Clay for auto-production. To do that, you'll want basically a Cobbleworks (Cobble -> Gravel -> Sand), then smelt the sand into glass, then electrolize the glass into nether quartz. Sand also gets turned into Dust, which combines in a Chemical Reactor with water to make Clay. You can use a Liquid Extractor to turn Ender Pearls into the liquid form. In a MV (has to be at least MV) Chemical Reactor, 250 mb of resonant ender (1 ender pearl's worth) + 1 Nether Quartz = Resonant Clathrate. Smelt into Pulsating Dust. Pulsating Dust + Clay in an Alloy Smelter = Polymer Clay you need to run the shulker card.

    Since you already have Magmatic Dynamos, you'll probably want to upgrade them with the coolant augment to substantially increase their power output as an interim step to getting the Nusimatic Dynamos up and running.

    Hoooo boy, you are falling into a VERY common trap. Some things:

    LV motors are easy. You want a Magnetizer to make the magnetic rods without spending 4x redstone per. You also want a lathe to cut your rod resource cost in half. From there, in an Assembler, 2x Iron Rods + 1x Magnetic Iron Rod + 2x Molten Copper (feed from adjacent Liquid Extractor) = 1 motor. Done.

    Once you have done that, the pump is a Motor, some tin cable, a tin rotor (check out the Assembly recipe... Soldering Alloy is 9x Tin and 1x Antimony, which you get from Stibnite that you'll be picking up as you mine out Tetrahedrite), and a Bronze Pipe. Also, check the Assembler recipe for Pumps as well... you'll be surprised how much easier it is!

    You want a set of LV machines that help you with resource economy. For example, the Wiremill. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH how awesome the Wiremill is! First off, instead of being a 2 ingots per plate and one plate per wire recipe, it is one ingot makes two wires, so a 4x1 ratio.

    But wait, there's more! Run that copper wire through the Wiremill again and get Fine Copper Wire which is a plug-and-play replacement for Copper Wire in all of your circuitry needs, which is a 16x(!) efficiency multiplier.

    Also, you want to get away from the first circuits as soon as possible. You'll want the multiblock coking oven, which needs steam (use a GT machine to produce steam) and a Programmed Circuit, then feed it Coal and get Coke as well as Phenol. Your basic boards + Phenol in a Chemical Reactor = Phenolic Substrate which is what you need for your Second Tier One Circuits, which are WAY more efficient!

    Since you're in MV, once you get Ethanol production set up, you can start making Ethylene and Polyethylene as well as Vinyl and Polyvinyl Chloride for the better recipes.

    You're ALWAYS wanting to look at your circuits for a way to make them easier or cheaper. Always.

    Ore Processing is almost obsolete in this pack. There's several ways to obtain copious quantities of ores without needing to worry too much about processing. Since you've got it, then you may as well use it, the secondary outputs can be useful down the line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  16. Golrith

    Golrith Over-Achiever Trusted User

    Thanks @ShneekeyTheLost I'll look at those augments. I think I'm up to 8 hardened Magmatics (and 8 steam dynamos). Got all the machines, and started setting up a "machine shop" that's keeping a stock of plates, rods, wires that my AE system can access ready for future autocrafting.
    Got infinite alumnium (plus, sand, gravel, clay) being produced from a cobble works, but need more power to speed up the smelting.

    Nearly lost it a bit when I saw that the autocrafting part of AE requires tier 3 circuits, which I'm not at yet (Looking at recipes I believe that's further down from the silicon bule I crafted but haven't advanced on). I think I need this ability to ensure correct quantities of items go into machines (since playing with the alloy smelting input, there's no sidedness and it'll fill up both slots regardless).

    While I'm waiting on my alumnium to process (due to a slight derp on my side, my alumium dust production overflowed my storage, and I've not got more dust than all my other common ingots combined...) I'm going to be playing with Deep Mob Learning, which I've never used before. After that, I'll be looking at circuits.

    The crafting pace has speed up drastically now, but it was very painful starting out. One thing I'm glad off, is no longer needing mass amounts of redstone alloy wire.... Gah! Wrought Iron was almost as bad but is slowly phasing out.


    Edit: OMFG. Just tested one Magmatic Augment, and bam 150 RF/t to 600 RF/t with this one cheap to craft augment! Time to upgrade them all!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  17. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    Good idea. I'm actually using Storage Drawers with a Flint Upgrade to act as a buffer. That way, once my AE network actually starts expanding, hooking up a single storage bus into the Drawer Controller nets my system complete access to it.
    There's an easier way to get infinite aluminum than electrolyzing clay. Deep Resonance can help, with a Guardian core.

    Circuits going forward will require Polyethylene and Polyvinyl Chloride. Which, by the way, will further increase the efficiency of your Tier One and Tier Two circuits, so don't forget to upgrade that process once these two substances are on farm.

    You'll want a Blast Furnace dedicated exclusively to Boules, they take like a minute of real time to process, you don't want that gumming up your aluminum smelting or other necessary processes like Energetic or Vibrant Alloy, or Stainless Steel.

    Yep! However, check out the Blast Furnace recipe for Red Alloy. It significantly reduces the amount of redstone needs if you have a Liquid Extractor to feed it with.
     
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  18. Golrith

    Golrith Over-Achiever Trusted User

    True fact, my plan originally was storage buses on all the machines to access their inventory, but while walking the dog, it dawned on me, why don't I just use Storage Drawers with the flint upgrade. So much easier and cheaper. Now it feels like I've got this workshop with all these little draws holding various bits n bobs.

    Turned off my aluminum generator, got enough for now. Saw your comment about making quartz from glass, thought you were tripping, then saw it was actually a thing, so plugged that into the same cobble gen setup.

    Feeling more comfortable now about progressing further, those power gen tips were game changer, along with vibrant power cables.
     

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