Curse Client, FTB Packs and Linux

[Someone Else 37]

Oh, hey. A topic I used to argue about for hours.

MultiMC has often expressed a will to support anything and everything. They are already hard at work to support installing and downloading Technic packs from within MultiMC; they also have their own mod package manager in testing that lets you install and update mods with a single click (not too far from what CurseForge offers), etc. In other words, they seem to be willing to support everything that makes lifes easier for their users. In addition, they already use Qt, making it run on Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, *BSD, you name it!

Why not come to them and offer them the chance to support FTB modpacks via MultiMC? That would solve the Linux issue fairly easily.

I like this idea. I, personally, use MultiMC for day-to-day running of packs, including FTB packs, because it has useful features (such as copying instances, creating vanilla instances ready for dumping mods in to for custom pack, a button to open the config folder in my file browser, setting RAM and PermGen without memorizing Java arguments, etc.) that the FTB launcher simply doesn't have. It already has an option to show and launch FTB packs downloaded from the FTB launcher (which I use), but it's annoying that I can't get the newest version this way.

Theoretically, all it would take to add direct FTB support through MultiMC would be a QuickMods .json file for each of the packs (at least, once that feature goes public, if it hasn't already). True, it would take significantly longer to install packs due to how QuickMods still makes you wait through adf.ly and CurseForge... but since it automatically directs you to the right page, it's easier than tracking the individual mods down and installing manually. I'd be OK with it, if somewhat annoyed for having to click the "Download" button every five seconds, because it would still support modders that use adf.ly and the like.

All that is not to say that I like the message that doing this would send to Linux users... "We don't have time/resources to support your system natively, but here's a third-party installer that can."

 

[Jadedcat]

Why not come to them and offer them the chance to support FTB modpacks via MultiMC?

Um they already do? They have for ages?

 

[ljfa]

Um they already do? They have for ages?

Launching packs yes, but not downloading and updating.
Maybe the Curse API will allow that for modpacks so that the MultiMC devs can implement it?

 

[Jadedcat]

Launching packs yes, but not downloading and updating.
Maybe the Curse API will allow that for modpacks so that the MultiMC devs can implement it?

I have no idea whether the Curse API will allow that. I know I'd be against it on a personal level. And before people jump to the whole OMG horrible person conclusion :

Giving an API that would allow a different launcher to download the modpacks from CurseForge and distribute them through that launcher would

1. violate mod licenses. - Mod authors have given permission for their mods to be distributed through the Curse Client. While some mod authors may also extend that permission to other launchers or be full open-use, putting a mod on CurseForge only gives permission for distribution through the Curse Client and I am not sure thats a transferable permission.

2. Violate modpack creators wishes and promises to mod authors. A lot of my mod permissions are based on where I distribute the modpack from. Making it easy for MultiMC or any other launcher to load my pack automatically, bypasses authors getting credit, and violates the permissions I was given. It also confuses users who then don't report issues in the correct places. I don't want my packs on Solder. And if the API allows launchers outside the client to distribute my pack it will end up in places I don't want it.

3. Violates the copyrights of the art asset creators. The artists that do textures for me and my packs do so with specific use requirements.

I know some people on here don't care about modder/artist/pack creator rights. But I do. And personally I think that kind of API thing would be difficult to implement in a way that didn't trample all over all of them. However that's not my call. Which is probably a good thing.


If the modpacks are available as a download, MultiMC can use the same way they used for FTB, insert pack you downloaded and run it. Solder already has people copying my and other packs and uploading them.


I have no idea what the API will and won't allow. I do know we (FTB and Curse) have stated that there WILL be a solution for Linux users. It probably won't be a client at the start, but its highly unlikely any of us would be comfortable with the solution being "use someone else's launcher" even if the API allows it. That's just kind of lazy.

(such as copying instances, creating vanilla instances ready for dumping mods in to for custom pack, a button to open the config folder in my file browser, setting RAM and PermGen without memorizing Java arguments, etc.) that the FTB launcher simply doesn't have.

Most of this is going to be covered in the client , and a lot more. The client is built from the ground up with input from mod authors, modpack creators, and players. Its not just what one group needs, or what one dev thinks is useful. Its everything we have ever needed/wanted to be able to do when modifying Minecraft. Thats why so many people on twitter who have gotten the alpha test version are excited. The only reason I still touch MMC is because there are still bugs that need working out in the client. And then I only use MMC as a backup while they bugfix the client. Because the client has everything I need for playing, creating and testing. And I need a lot. And it does all that using less computer resources than any of the current launchers.

 

[ljfa]

I have no idea whether the Curse API will allow that. I know I'd be against it on a personal level. And before people jump to the whole OMG horrible person conclusion :

Okay I get your points there.
Currently it is possible to automatically download mods from CurseForge, so I was thinking it would be like that for modpacks as well.

 

[Jadedcat]

Okay I get your points there.
Currently it is possible to automatically download mods from CurseForge, so I was thinking it would be like that for modpacks as well.

Yeah that's ok to me at least cause the launcher that auto download mods usually check permissions first, or are downloading the mod as opposed to redistribution. Where as distributing a pack is redistribution, I think?

Like I said, probably a good thing that the API isn't my call. I tend to be very cautious on the idea of protecting creator rights. And if its possible to protect creator's rights and respect their wishes and the only downside is that third party launchers have to do an extra step, I am ok with that.

 

[asiekierka]

I have no idea whether the Curse API will allow that.

Judging by what I know about the format so far, with people's inspections of the manifest.jsons: yes, yes it will. By design, if the Curse launcher knows how to find these files, then it has to get the information on finding these files somehow, and anyone can mimic that... unless Curse bans it in the Terms of Service.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Um, dude: "THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CURSE OR FTB . "Telling me to use cross platform support for my personal opinion.... umm sure. My opinion is freely available on linux/mac and windows. Not really sure what that has to do with my personal opinion on Linux support for games

I was just talkkng abot how your opinion may be miaplaced

Interestingly enough 9/10 times when someone says "easily" , "simple" etc in regards to code, they aren't volunteering to do it themselves, they have no actual idea what is involved in the process or anything beside "it can't be that hard... the internet says so". Well according to Surgeon Simulator brain surgery is pretty easy, want to let me operate on your brain?

I work with cross-platform stuff primarily so this isn't the case. However if yall are using an existing framework then I fully understand the problems associated with transferring

 

[keybounce]

Solder?
Are you referring to this: https://github.com/TechnicPack/TechnicSolder/wiki/Getting-Started
I will freely admit to not really understand what this is for, except maybe only having to download changes instead of a full update. (And yes, that's all I could determine from that site -- and I'm not sure I got that much correctly).

 

[CoolSquid]

Solder?
Are you referring to this: https://github.com/TechnicPack/TechnicSolder/wiki/Getting-Started
I will freely admit to not really understand what this is for, except maybe only having to download changes instead of a full update. (And yes, that's all I could determine from that site -- and I'm not sure I got that much correctly).

Yeah, that is Solder.

 

[keybounce]

Ok, then:
1. What does it do (or did I get it right -- making downloads smaller by making downloads diffs), and
2. What's wrong with it?

 

[ljfa]

1. What does it do (or did I get it right -- making downloads smaller by making downloads diffs), and

I'm not sure but I think so

2. What's wrong with it?

Nothing per se. It's just the way it is used by some people.

 

[CoolSquid]

1. violate mod licenses. - Mod authors have given permission for their mods to be distributed through the Curse Client. While some mod authors may also extend that permission to other launchers or be full open-use, putting a mod on CurseForge only gives permission for distribution through the Curse Client and I am not sure thats a transferable permission.

Handling situations like that is a pain. I'm trying to take down minecraftdls installers, which are downloading the mods directly from the original mirror. Those installers are malicious (as shown by bilde2910), but I can't do anything, since they aren't hosting my files.

 

[Jadedcat]

Nothing per se. It's just the way it is used by some people.

Pretty much. Its just the way some people use it.

 

[jikuja]

Ok. Now we know Curse won't be hiring staff to develop linux client.

What are the plans for "solution for Linux users"? Is it cancelled, WIP or not started at all? Last time I heard promises for it was nine months ago in Kaelten's AMA:

I can promise that there will be a playable version of mod packs for linux. I can't promise that will be through an official Curse Client.

Does anyone got real answer for this or do we have to wait until current backend is abandonden and current launcher won't get updates?

Ps. I don't want client friends list and bells and whistles, I just want to continue using FTB packs without changing OS.
(I'm 99% sure that people who ask for linux support are asking for downloader/installer to somehow continue FTB experience)

 

[LokiChaos]

Honestly a simple script that can list and install/update a modpack is all that is strictly needed. In some ways could be a superior option.

curse-cli sync - Updates modpack listing info.
curse-cli list/ls - Lists the public modpack names and versions available. Maybe flags to filter results, or you can just use grep.
curse-cli info modpack - Echos the little info paragraph, the mod/credits list, etc.
curse-cli install modpack [-r|-l|-v version] [-p pass] [-s] path - Installed modpack to the specified path. Private packs that require a passcode use the -p. -s Would install the server instance to path.
curse-cli update path [-r|-l|-v version] - Updates modpack found at given path to recommended (-r), latest (-l) or specified version (-v).

The above would make installing multiple versions of a modpack trivial, as would making multiple instances to modify in different ways. You could even easily install server instances remotely with only shell access.

Let MultiMC or whatever launcher handle launching the instances. Provided whatever Curse implementation for the modpack listing and downloads is implemented sanely (ie: non-obfuscated) this shouldn't be a terribly difficult program to write.

 

[CoolSquid]

Well, all FTB packs are downloadable from CreeperHost, but there is currently no simple way to get the link. I guess the links stored somewhere so the FTB launcher can find them.

 

[jikuja]

Well, all FTB packs are downloadable from CreeperHost, but there is currently no simple way to get the link. I guess the links stored somewhere so the FTB launcher can find them.

That's true now but Curse will use their new backend. I'm biased to say this but it's really easy to open pack's metadata with wget/curl and download pack's zip or server.zip. There is 3rd party tool to check versions and download server.zips: https://github.com/idynin/FTBUtils
Anyway I like your idea and I might even stole your verbs to FTB Launcher if I have time and motivation(*) to fix current code which is used to fetch pack metadata.

(*) Not sure if big changes are waste of time. FTB Launcher will be replaced by curse client at some point.

Honestly a simple script that can list and install/update a modpack is all that is strictly needed. In some ways could be a superior option.
Provided whatever Curse implementation for the modpack listing and downloads is implemented sanely (ie: non-obfuscated) this shouldn't be a terribly difficult program to write.

ToS? Copyrights?
We have already program which fetch pack metadata, display pack information, install pack and even launch packs. It is called FTB Launcher. Why don't we edit that for the users who might like GUI more that CLI? Answers: no API and probably ToS.

I'm sure someone will use their own CLI client to download packs if curse does provide tools. Now we can't do anything but wait until someone from curse decides to make API public/publish that tool or until Curse client is public and API can be reverse engineered.

 

[LokiChaos]

Well my proposal was for Curse to provide such a tool, and failing that the community can create it. I am working under the assumption that they have no interest in providing a full client for anything other than MS Windows and OS X. A minimal cli tool that makes it easy to download and install modpacks would be a serviceable alternative and should require a tiny fraction of the dev time. Even just a public listing of URI's to modpack archives to wget/curl would suffice if we want to really make their effort absolutely trivial.

 

[CoolSquid]

Well my proposal was for Curse to provide such a tool, and failing that the community can create it. I am working under the assumption that they have no interest in providing a full client for anything other than MS Windows and OS X. A minimal cli tool that makes it easy to download and install modpacks would be a serviceable alternative and should require a tiny fraction of the dev time. Even just a public listing of URI's to modpack archives to wget/curl would suffice if we want to really make their effort absolutely trivial.

I think all packs will be made available here. The download links aren't currently working, but I guess they will be activated in the future.

Edit: If I recall correctly, the Curse client is written in C#.