Continuum, What went wrong?

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Cptqrk

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As I recall Continuum was a victim of being released when the MC version was fairly new and few mods existed. It was delayed to the point that the forums were full of complaints that it was released long before FtB wanted to.


This, and the fact that FTB team seems to lean almost exclusively towards IC2, Forestry, and Bees....

No offense to those mods, but by God, they are so old Noah played with them on the Ark....

Every time I heard the FTB team is making a new challenge map (Continuum and Pyramid), I knew it's going to be EU power, and breeding bees.... This is my problem with FTB packs as of late. Nothing interesting, just all the old inefficient mods being used to spread out the "gameplay" over hours and hours of waiting for a tank to fill up.

Hell, even the Holy Grail of Infinity was EU based to start, and Bees were always on the horizon, so you knew to start breeding as soon as you could.

I hope the next project does better, I really do. I love these guys, and appreciate the work they put into these packs. I just don't share the same tastes / loyalties when it comes to their main mods of choice.
 
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KingTriaxx

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I like Forestry, I like bees in small does, or if I can go to Gendustry.

As for EU at least it's got some things you need to think about it. Unlike RF that's just plug and play. I know, some people don't like that. Different packs for different people.

And yes, Endoflame. Don't know why I couldn't come up with it, but Thermalilly was the one stuck in my head and I knew that was the lava eater.
 

Cptqrk

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I like Forestry, I like bees in small does, or if I can go to Gendustry.

As for EU at least it's got some things you need to think about it. Unlike RF that's just plug and play. I know, some people don't like that. Different packs for different people.

And yes, Endoflame. Don't know why I couldn't come up with it, but Thermalilly was the one stuck in my head and I knew that was the lava eater.

What part(s) of Forestry do you use? On a regular basis? Kitchen sink pack wise, what would you use from Forestry?

Bees in small doses is the antithesis of challenge/hard packs. Also, by the time you can get into Gendustry, if it's in the pack at all, it's too late.

Yes EU isn't plug and play, but it's not challenging at all anymore... you have to watch how much power you are running through a line/machine? What a new and exciting concept.. oh wait...

It's been done.. to death.. then resurrected, then killed again, then dug up and put on display, put away for safe keeping, stolen and sold to the highest bidder, equipped with robotics so it can still move, powered up, and then let run till the battery has run down...

It's for these reasons that I don't really look forward to FTB challenge packs anymore... I know it will have these three mods, and that progression will be gated behind them in some way.
 
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KingTriaxx

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Multi-farms, tin cans, Ethanol for power, Peat for early power.

I am aware, but at the same time that's not what I mean. I like bees if I can set them up and slowly work on them in the background of the pack. For example, you're at stage one in the pack, in order to progress to stage 2 the recipe for the progress item requires a Common Drone. Stage 3 requires a Noble Princess. Which isn't that much more difficult necessarily and can be hard to get all at the same time.

For you it's not challenging anymore. Good. Someone just trying out an expert pack, who's been on the RF standard forever, plugs in a cable in EU, adds power and gets blown up. And yes, I understand designing for everyone runs contrary to the idea of the expert pack, but at the same time, what you consider old and boring and easy, is not to someone new to the mod. So FTB builds expert packs that are easier than you like, because it draws in people who might not, and who might run through it, decide it's too easy and design a harder pack.

So you don't like FTB challenge packs. You think they're too easy. Make your own pack. Pick your own mods, gate the progression your way. Run screaming from the 'old easy' mods. Or commission one to be made custom for you, like Sevtech was.
 

Nuclear_Creeper0

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I want to bring up another issue, the lack of any new mods. Continuum has what most packs have, IC2, Tinkers, Thermal, Immersive, ProjectE, etc. The problem is, that FTB is a Twitch partner, the packs have to be super stable for Twitch, which to be fair, Continuum is super stable. But stability shouldn't be the top priority, throw in some random new mod that might break the game. Experiment, find new mods to use. Curse has literally thousands and thousands of mods, throw something random in, define expectations, break the norm so to speak. Like SevTech did with the entire progression system being based not off a quest book or a guide, but the advancement system.
 

APEX_gaming

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I think another thing to consider is Spice of life. Because while it is an... iffy mod, the way that the team handled it (atleast from what I heard) is possibly the worst way they could have done it.

Now, From my understanding, the FTB team made it so that a food's drop off caps at 60%, However, all this does is make it so that you have to eat 40% more food, which negates the entire point of Spice of Life. Assuming what I heard was correct, there where several better ways to handle it. the first is by reducing the rate that foods loose effectiveness. So if I where to eat something once, instead of going down to 50% effectiveness it may only go down to 70 or 80%, second they could have added/made a mod that added a mid-game item that converted food into hunger points and automatically fed the player, similar to that one talismen from one of thaumcraft 4's addons. This way it makes SoL something that can be overcome while also giving players a benefit. And finally, And what I think is the best way, is to simply add a quest for players to make the pams machines and cooking for blockheads kitchen. Because let me tell you, cooking for Blockheads alone makes Spice of Life so much better simply because it allows the player to see what exactly they can make without them having to fiddle with JEI. Without CFB, I would have a chest full of random ingredients with no idea what I could combine them in to.
 
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ShneekeyTheLost

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You know, the more this goes on, the more I keep wanting to do this whole 'To Be Continuued' pack idea. The basic idea is to use the same mod list, but to completely change how they are used, from worldgen on up, to make a more engaging but still challenging 'expert mode' pack...

For example:

Starting off, you don't get access to Efab. That won't come for one and a half ages or so, because Efab will only be used for more complex crafting recipes, and the first age is called Sticks And Stones for a reason. The Smeltery will either be disabled or will require something you can't get yet to craft it, but it will NOT be an Efab half hour (or even ten minute) crafting BS time gate. I may just go ahead and disable it and use Immersive instead. Disable the Tool Forge while I'm at it.

Yes, the wood from logs and sticks from wood recipes are nerfed just like they are in Continuum, but the Hatchet from Tinker's (not the Mattock, just the Hatchet) has a psudo-treecapitator mechanic, to make chopping down trees faster, but it still consumes the same amount of durability (if not just a bit more) as chopping down whatever you just went through. This speeds up the wood production to make up for it, and increases the rate at which your axe will break, which is why the Sharpening Kits are going to be heavily pushed as a way to keep your tools running, because you can use them in a crafting square on the fly to fully repair a broken tool. Flint is probably going to be the top-tier tool material, although Cactus and Paper and Wood and Bone are all other options for making parts out of.

Oh, and Charcoal can only be made in a Coking Oven, so I hope you either find coal or find some of the other ways of making torches. This limits the 'five minutes in and I already have a branch mine and all the resources I could ever want' aspect of Minecraft, because lighting alone will limit the expanse of your branch mines. Ore smelting in regular furnaces is also disabled. Other than some food cooking, the regular furnace is mostly going to be a component rather than a machine. Iron becomes a Tier 2 material, meaning you will need to obtain Bronze or Brass before it is able to be mined. Nickel may also be found within ore deposits as an uncommon secondary find.

Oregen is also going to be quite different. While the total amount of ore in the world is going to be about on par, it will be found in deposits rather than scattered about. I think I can also make it spawn an ore of the deposit type at surface right above the center of the deposit as well, which can help locate deposits. The intent is not to hide the ores, but require exploration to find them. As long as you explore, you shouldn't have many troubles locating them. Obtaining them may get a bit interesting, though. Diamonds and Emeralds, for example, spawn in obsidian-encrusted geodes, so you'll need to find a way to crack that in order to obtain the precious gems within. Copper and Tin are going to be relatively easy to get to. Redstone might be a bit more problematic as lava tends to be found within Redstone deposits (yes, I'm being kind of a jerk here, the restone ore deposit in CoFH is going to have Lava source blocks as an uncommon secondary spawn), while Lapis are found in geode like deposits under wet biomes. The Lapis geodes tend to be large-ish, but not common. Gold deposits will have Platinum as an uncommon secondary spawn. Lead and Silver will be found in Galena deposits mixed in roughly equal quantities. All of this will be telegraphed to the player via the quest log, and you can occasionally find surface ores that might hint at what lies beneath.

Exiting Age One: Sticks and Stones will be done with creating Immersive Engineering's Coke Oven and Alloy Smelter (which ONLY runs on Charcoal). This will lead you into Age 2: Brazen Might. And it isn't until about half way through Age 2 that the Efab is unlocked. The Blast Furnace is about two-thirds of the way through this age, and is required to smelt iron ore into iron (only using Charcoal), as well as smelting iron into steel (only using Coal Coke). All of the Smeltery recipes that produce tool components go into the EFab instead, requiring the cast and the molten liquid in a tank and about ten seconds. Smeltery unlocks, but all of the casting recipes are disabled, the only real use for the smeltery is to produce molten metals to feed into the Efab structure, and it does NOT ore-double. Also, all the Carpenter recipes get moved over to Efab as well. Expect your Efab to be quite large, with many different tanks with various liquids in them by the time you are done with this age.

How does that sound for the start of an Expert mode pack, as opposed to how Continuum did things?
 

KingTriaxx

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Perhaps just dump Tinker's all together, and use Silent's Gems instead. Super charging tools requires EFab and molten Chaos.
 

APEX_gaming

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[QUOTE="ShneekeyTheLost, post: 1994538, member: 11568"
Unnessesary post filler[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure you can do that, but I'd say go for it if you can.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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[QUOTE="ShneekeyTheLost, post: 1994538, member: 11568"
Unnessesary post filler

I'm not sure you can do that, but I'd say go for it if you can.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to be very careful about making sure it is done properly, and by properly I mean by not stepping on the FTB team's toes. I mean, the mods are open-source on Curseforge, right? I won't use the FTB Logo (except inasmuch as FTBUtils uses it to describe itself), because that's not mine to use. And the whole point of the exercise is to NOT use their config code and use my own. So at the end of the day, I don't see how I wouldn't be permitted to do it.

As far as it being possible, it will involve actually learning CraftTweaks and the EFab JSON code, which will take a lot of research, but most of it should be possible. The only thing I'm not sure if I can do is the hatchet being able to chop down multiple objects, may have to use the quest to give the player an upgrade or something to get it to work (Vertical upgrade?), but it should be possible.
 

GamerwithnoGame

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I think another thing to consider is Spice of life. Because while it is an... iffy mod, the way that the team handled it (atleast from what I heard) is possibly the worst way they could have done it.

Now, From my understanding, the FTB team made it so that a food's drop off caps at 60%, However, all this does is make it so that you have to eat 40% more food, which negates the entire point of Spice of Life. Assuming what I heard was correct, there where several better ways to handle it. the first is by reducing the rate that foods loose effectiveness. So if I where to eat something once, instead of going down to 50% effectiveness it may only go down to 70 or 80%, second they could have added/made a mod that added a mid-game item that converted food into hunger points and automatically fed the player, similar to that one talismen from one of thaumcraft 4's addons. This way it makes SoL something that can be overcome while also giving players a benefit. And finally, And what I think is the best way, is to simply add a quest for players to make the pams machines and cooking for blockheads kitchen. Because let me tell you, cooking for Blockheads alone makes Spice of Life so much better simply because it allows the player to see what exactly they can make without them having to fiddle with JEI. Without CFB, I would have a chest full of random ingredients with no idea what I could combine them in to.
I believe there actually was an item that basically negated the Spice of Life thing altogether - the Meat Feeder. It just bypassed eating and automatically filled up hunger and saturation using liquid meat. Once you get that, there's no need to eat.

You know, the more this goes on, the more I keep wanting to do this whole 'To Be Continuued' pack idea. The basic idea is to use the same mod list, but to completely change how they are used, from worldgen on up, to make a more engaging but still challenging 'expert mode' pack...

For example:

Starting off, you don't get access to Efab. That won't come for one and a half ages or so, because Efab will only be used for more complex crafting recipes, and the first age is called Sticks And Stones for a reason. The Smeltery will either be disabled or will require something you can't get yet to craft it, but it will NOT be an Efab half hour (or even ten minute) crafting BS time gate. I may just go ahead and disable it and use Immersive instead. Disable the Tool Forge while I'm at it.

Yes, the wood from logs and sticks from wood recipes are nerfed just like they are in Continuum, but the Hatchet from Tinker's (not the Mattock, just the Hatchet) has a psudo-treecapitator mechanic, to make chopping down trees faster, but it still consumes the same amount of durability (if not just a bit more) as chopping down whatever you just went through. This speeds up the wood production to make up for it, and increases the rate at which your axe will break, which is why the Sharpening Kits are going to be heavily pushed as a way to keep your tools running, because you can use them in a crafting square on the fly to fully repair a broken tool. Flint is probably going to be the top-tier tool material, although Cactus and Paper and Wood and Bone are all other options for making parts out of.

Oh, and Charcoal can only be made in a Coking Oven, so I hope you either find coal or find some of the other ways of making torches. This limits the 'five minutes in and I already have a branch mine and all the resources I could ever want' aspect of Minecraft, because lighting alone will limit the expanse of your branch mines. Ore smelting in regular furnaces is also disabled. Other than some food cooking, the regular furnace is mostly going to be a component rather than a machine. Iron becomes a Tier 2 material, meaning you will need to obtain Bronze or Brass before it is able to be mined. Nickel may also be found within ore deposits as an uncommon secondary find.

Oregen is also going to be quite different. While the total amount of ore in the world is going to be about on par, it will be found in deposits rather than scattered about. I think I can also make it spawn an ore of the deposit type at surface right above the center of the deposit as well, which can help locate deposits. The intent is not to hide the ores, but require exploration to find them. As long as you explore, you shouldn't have many troubles locating them. Obtaining them may get a bit interesting, though. Diamonds and Emeralds, for example, spawn in obsidian-encrusted geodes, so you'll need to find a way to crack that in order to obtain the precious gems within. Copper and Tin are going to be relatively easy to get to. Redstone might be a bit more problematic as lava tends to be found within Redstone deposits (yes, I'm being kind of a jerk here, the restone ore deposit in CoFH is going to have Lava source blocks as an uncommon secondary spawn), while Lapis are found in geode like deposits under wet biomes. The Lapis geodes tend to be large-ish, but not common. Gold deposits will have Platinum as an uncommon secondary spawn. Lead and Silver will be found in Galena deposits mixed in roughly equal quantities. All of this will be telegraphed to the player via the quest log, and you can occasionally find surface ores that might hint at what lies beneath.

Exiting Age One: Sticks and Stones will be done with creating Immersive Engineering's Coke Oven and Alloy Smelter (which ONLY runs on Charcoal). This will lead you into Age 2: Brazen Might. And it isn't until about half way through Age 2 that the Efab is unlocked. The Blast Furnace is about two-thirds of the way through this age, and is required to smelt iron ore into iron (only using Charcoal), as well as smelting iron into steel (only using Coal Coke). All of the Smeltery recipes that produce tool components go into the EFab instead, requiring the cast and the molten liquid in a tank and about ten seconds. Smeltery unlocks, but all of the casting recipes are disabled, the only real use for the smeltery is to produce molten metals to feed into the Efab structure, and it does NOT ore-double. Also, all the Carpenter recipes get moved over to Efab as well. Expect your Efab to be quite large, with many different tanks with various liquids in them by the time you are done with this age.

How does that sound for the start of an Expert mode pack, as opposed to how Continuum did things?
This sounds like a really neat idea! Like, you've taken inspiration from some of the GOOD progression stuff in InfiTech 2, and avoided the bad stuff! The only question I'd have is how do you MAKE the casts in the first place? Because you need molten gold or aluminum brass to form them in the first place, right? Unless... is there some sort of low level stamper you could use, so you make a stone part and a gold plate in some way and stamp it together to "punch out" the shape for the cast?
 
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GamerwithnoGame

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Ah, so leave those casting recipes in? Actually thinking about it I guess there's no reason you couldn't leave the recipes for making casts, just not the ones for casting with casts. In retrospect, it was a silly question.
 

Celestialphoenix

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Tartarus.. I mean at work. Same thing really.
This sounds like a really neat idea! Like, you've taken inspiration from some of the GOOD progression stuff in InfiTech 2, and avoided the bad stuff! The only question I'd have is how do you MAKE the casts in the first place? Because you need molten gold or aluminum brass to form them in the first place, right? Unless... is there some sort of low level stamper you could use, so you make a stone part and a gold plate in some way and stamp it together to "punch out" the shape for the cast?

In my own [unreleased/incomplete] pack I've gotten around this with ContentTweaker;
Added blocks of "raw casting medium", 'model' items of machine various parts, and the finished 'hardened cast' blocks.
The hardened casts have been set to drop the finished items when broken with a pickaxe.
 
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