Computer Craft recipes, overpowered?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The above post is one of those "on paper" complaints. There is a whole series of youtube videos where someone tries to do this and it basically is no better than normal methods. It was called the ComputerCraft Challenge.

But also, it's a cool story if you don't like writing a lot of code. But why is that people who want to write a ton of code for computercraft are being told that their recipe are OP when they're working just as hard as everyone else on a different kind of game? If that's the game they wanna play then it seems pretty reasonable.

Turtles are a 'do anything you want and get away with it' device. Once you get the simplistic LUA coding format and commands down, there's almost nothing you can't do with it. It's... just not my cuppa.

I like how you seem to think that pounding out code no more complicated than stuff elementary school (or perhaps Jr High at the latest) kids deal with in class is somehow complicated, though. Tedious, perhaps, if you don't know how to write clean code and don't pastebin commonly used subroutines, but not hard. And, of course, no risk of creeper to the face.

Sure, to each their own. And Computercraft is an awesome way to introduce programming to kids. It's simple enough that they can grasp the concepts, and since it's in a game, it's fun. It's an absolutely brilliant mod, and I cannot congratulate the author enough for it.

It's just not my play style.

 

[KirinDave]

Turtles are a 'do anything you want and get away with it' device. Once you get the simplistic LUA coding format and commands down, there's almost nothing you can't do with it. It's... just not my cuppa.

That's fine.

I like how you seem to think that pounding out code no more complicated than stuff elementary school (or perhaps Jr High at the latest) kids deal with in class is somehow complicated, though.

A well-written Lua script for turtles is a uniquely tricky proposition because there is no way to test it well in most cases. The fact that many people write garbage or novice-quality code is irrelevant. And as a software engineer with over 10 years of experience, a programmer for 27 of my 33 years of life, and a really skilled hand at argument from authority: robust turtle scripts can be surprisingly challenging to write. This is why computercraft programs to do something slightly wrong are often short+sweet, but actual mods that do those things are quite a bit longer and more complex even if you isolate out interface issues and java exception handling.

It's just not my play style.

Which is sort of what I said. And that's fine. In fact that is wonderful. It's one of the reasons modded minecraft fascinates me so much: you build a game to order.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I would love to use cc in my survival world, however I dont because I believe it is overpowered. Not because it can replace every single other mod, no I believe they are just too cheap,...
It make rp2 computers utterly redundant

So just throw a few diamonds into lava every time you make a computer. Simple. And RP2 CPUs aren't redundant, you need them to control Sortrons. If you ever feel too clever and want to know what being a dunce feels like, try programming a Sortron. It's great.

 

[KirinDave]

So just throw a few diamonds into lava every time you make a computer. Simple. And RP2 CPUs aren't redundant, you need them to control Sortrons. If you ever feel too clever and want to know what being a dunce feels like, try programming a Sortron. It's great.

Rp2 computers are redundant in a pack containing CC. ComputerCraft's computers are better in just about every dimension other than controlling Sortrons as stated. And this is a dubious advantage as demonstrated by their relative obscurity and the rising popularity of other mods that can do similar things. If you happen to toss infinitubes in your pack then you even get something close to a sorton in many respects.

Weep if you will for RP2, but the computer part of it has been buggy for awhile now. The only reasonable use I've seen for a Sortron was to make autocrafting systems using Factorizatoin's (author-admitted, if rumors are to be believed) underpowered and awkward craftpacket interface. If Eloraam continues to improve it, that'd be great. Even if you made ComputerCraft computers cost twice as much as RP2 computers people would still take the CC counterparts nearly every time. They're just more capable and actually interoperate with other mods as opposed to pretending they're not there.

 

[Saice]

IMO, for actual balance, Turtles would require a few Nether Stars.

Actually there is one really easy fix that could balnce turtles with almost little change.

Make then use fuel everything that do anything. Attack 1 fuel, pick something up 1 fuel.

The issue most times it not that the turtle can do everything.... and I do mean basically EVERYTHING... its that it can do all these things for zero cost. Turtles only use fuel while moving thats it and even that can be turned off in the configs. Just make any action preformed by the turtle require fuel and that would go a long way to balancing them out.

 

[Whovian]

Actually there is one really easy fix that could balnce turtles with almost little change.

Make then use fuel everything that do anything. Attack 1 fuel, pick something up 1 fuel.

The issue most times it not that the turtle can do everything.... and I do mean basically EVERYTHING... its that it can do all these things for zero cost. Turtles only use fuel while moving thats it and even that can be turned off in the configs. Just make any action preformed by the turtle require fuel and that would go a long way to balancing them out.

I like the idea, but it would be fairly easy to set up a fuel farm and power any and all Turtles.

I feel like Turtles should be slightly later-game than they are now.

 

[KirinDave]

Actually there is one really easy fix that could balnce turtles with almost little change.

Make then use fuel everything that do anything. Attack 1 fuel, pick something up 1 fuel.

The issue most times it not that the turtle can do everything.... and I do mean basically EVERYTHING... its that it can do all these things for zero cost. Turtles only use fuel while moving thats it and even that can be turned off in the configs. Just make any action preformed by the turtle require fuel and that would go a long way to balancing them out.

This is less a balance and more of a nerf to near uselessness for many tasks for which turtles are the only practical solution. Unless, of course, you meant "everything" like "everything physical" and not "detecting/emitting redstone and talking on rednet" and the like.

People get so caught up on what they can do that they seldom talk about what people use them for. Turtles, for example, can be the best sorting machines in the game. No one uses them that way. Turtles can be infinite miners, but very few people use them that way. Turtles could be the best autocrafters by far, but you very rarely see that use. And in many cases Turtles do things worse than other mods can (e.g., wireless redstone, xycraft fabricators, BC quarry vs. turtle, nuclear information vs. turtle).

 

[Saice]

Unless, of course, you meant "everything" like "everything physical" and not "detecting/emitting redstone and talking on rednet" and the like.

Thats just what I mean. Anything doing stuff that for a player would take up food use. So mining. killing. running around. all that stuff.

I would also like to see at lest sub fuel being used for stuff like enchantment and crafting just because of how much of that you can do basically for free with turtles.[DOUBLEPOST=1364525022][/DOUBLEPOST]

I like the idea, but it would be fairly easy to set up a fuel farm and power any and all Turtles.

I feel like Turtles should be slightly later-game than they are now.

At lest your doing more then ploping done a turtle and doing pastebin get.

 

[KirinDave]

Thats just what I mean. Anything doing stuff that for a player would take up food use. So mining. killing. running around. all that stuff.

Well, I mean it's almost already like that. It seems like the discussion comes back to the mining turtle over and over?

I would also like to see at lest sub fuel being used for stuff like enchantment and crafting just because of how much of that you can do basically for free with turtles.

Crafting and/or enchanting costs player food? I dunno, I guess my expectations were set by LiquidXP and turtles aren't really near that level of awesome.

At lest your doing more then ploping done a turtle and doing pastebin get.

I spy the "at least they're not" regression to infinity. There is no cheating in minecraft, only various self-imposed rules and mods that fall into disuse. RP2 is a great example of this: it's gradually becoming obvious that lots of stuff RP2 wants you to do with sorting systems is not considered "fun" by the community anymore; more and more mods come out that do more for less and people like those mods. When I joined this community just a few months ago, I never saw Routers being used and every mention of them was sort of like, "Well you could use them... but I don't know how." Now they're a staple of every awesome build I see. AE is also totally reforming the way we think about storage and crafting. I think it's fun to see things change, but I wouldn't be surprised. some people find the progression bewildering and overpowering.

 

[Saice]

I spy the "at least they're not" regression to infinity. There is no cheating in minecraft, only various self-imposed rules and mods that fall into disuse. RP2 is a great example of this: it's gradually becoming obvious that lots of stuff RP2 wants you to do with sorting systems is not considered "fun" by the community anymore; more and more mods come out that do more for less and people like those mods. When I joined this community just a few months ago, I never saw Routers being used and every mention of them was sort of like, "Well you could use them... but I don't know how." Now they're a staple of every awesome build I see. AE is also totally reforming the way we think about storage and crafting. I think it's fun to see things change, but I wouldn't be surprised. some people find the progression bewildering and overpowering.

I've always stated this sort of thing is about playstyles. I'm not about to tell someone else how to play and would hope any sort of changes like this would be a configurable option. But since this thread is about options I feel like I have a place to express my personal play style options. And one of those is that I feel turtles have a bit of an unbalanced cost vs reward right now. I've never been a fan of any of the 'one magic block' sort of mods which CC is starting to become with all the additional peripherals now.

 

[mrkite]

This would be one of the few things I'd be thrilled if Greg went and changed everything about what they required to craft them. And I mean everything.

One of these days GT is going to modify the recipes of a mod, and the mod maker is going to fight back with reflection to modify GT's altered recipes, thus setting off an arms race that will destroy FTB and lag us to hell (GT's reflection code is already laggy as shit).

This is one of the reasons I think mods modifying other mods shouldn't be allowed in the pack.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Rednet, a bunch of wireless turtles, and a GPS tower... set up your own Logistics Pipes network. Once you get it coded, you can call for any item, and the turtle drops it in the chest hooked up to the sorting machine that shoots it to your location. Typical RP2 sorting system to put everything in chests, then use Turtles to retrieve and craft on demand.

 

[Hoff]

Rednet, a bunch of wireless turtles, and a GPS tower... set up your own Logistics Pipes network. Once you get it coded, you can call for any item, and the turtle drops it in the chest hooked up to the sorting machine that shoots it to your location. Typical RP2 sorting system to put everything in chests, then use Turtles to retrieve and craft on demand.

Or just install LP.

 

[KirinDave]

I've always stated this sort of thing is about playstyles. I'm not about to tell someone else how to play and would hope any sort of changes like this would be a configurable option. But since this thread is about options I feel like I have a place to express my personal play style options. And one of those is that I feel turtles have a bit of an unbalanced cost vs reward right now. I've never been a fan of any of the 'one magic block' sort of mods which CC is starting to become with all the additional peripherals now.

But it's not one magic block. It's many magic blocks with a common interface and in some cases pretty expensive recipes.

 

[FausticSun]

Computer hardmode recipe: Build a full redstone computer and run a specific program on it.

 

[Saice]

But it's not one magic block. It's many magic blocks with a common interface and in some cases pretty expensive recipes.

And if the turtle people had there way instead of having 1 turtle for each tool they would have the omni turtle. Which to be honest I'm sure someone is trying to make happen.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Or just install LP.

Which hasn't had an official release since 1.2.5? Mmmm... no thanks.

 

[KirinDave]

Which hasn't had an official release since 1.2.5? Mmmm... no thanks.

The release that exists does work. It's just a hard sell now that we have AE and RP2 tubes or Infinitubes. Once you put those things together, the only thing a player could really miss is how cheap LPs were to craft.

AE Quartz is the new currency.

 

[Hoff]

Which hasn't had an official release since 1.2.5? Mmmm... no thanks.

Who gives a crap about official? As it stands right now the "unofficial" has done more for it than Krapht did.

 

[KirinDave]

And if the turtle people had there way instead of having 1 turtle for each tool they would have the omni turtle. Which to be honest I'm sure someone is trying to make happen.

You say this like there is evidence. Doing what you describe would be easier for the ComputerCraft maintainers and integrators. But what we actually see is quite different; most integration is done via external blocks as wrapped peripherals right now.

You're attributing laziness and a desire for easy street to a group that tends to do things the hard way for the sport of it.