Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions

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Reika

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I gather this is no longer possible?
Not reasonably.

TomeWyrm, what on earth are you talking about. How can you say that the unbreakable tools are the point of RoC when so many players want to nerf/remove them? Your point is already 100% disproven. There's no logical argument to that, period.

Yes, its the point for some people. You could make and possibly back up an argument that its the point of the mod for some huge number of players. But Reika himself will tell you that since the dawn of RoC the #1 target for most players has always been the Extractor.
Actually, bedrock tools are one of the most commonly desired items, and looking back to the old magnetostatic nerf threads will show you legions of people saying "I just want the bedrock pickaxe" or similar. As for people asking for nerfs or removal? I know of less than ten.
 

JohnOC

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Good argument. And don't the good ind. coils require bedrock dust themselves?

I traditionally merged the output of 4 plebe coils iirc to get bedrock. I gather this is no longer possible?

1. Yes, 16 dust each. I also thought I read a patch note about them also requiring minimum charging energy requiring jet fuel or equivalent infrastructure.
2. Bedrock breaker now requires 4MW.. which would be 4 of the 'plebe' coils.. and therefore also require the final shaft junction combining the power to be upgraded with.. bedrock gears.
 

1M Industries

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1. Yes, 16 dust each. I also thought I read a patch note about them also requiring minimum charging energy requiring jet fuel or equivalent infrastructure.
2. Bedrock breaker now requires 4MW.. which would be 4 of the 'plebe' coils.. and therefore also require the final shaft junction combining the power to be upgraded with.. bedrock gears.
Actually, no. The junctions can have up to four, but not greater than four engines. Thus, it would indeed only require 4 coils.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
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Actually, bedrock tools are one of the most commonly desired items, and looking back to the old magnetostatic nerf threads will show you legions of people saying "I just want the bedrock pickaxe" or similar.
Funny, I recollect legions of people after the Extractor more than anything else. Then again, this predated the mainstream popularity of Mekanism which also has a high ore multiplying system.

As for people asking for nerfs or removal? I know of less than ten.
I need >= 1 reasonably intelligent person making the request to establish my point: the bedrock tools are not "the point" of rotarycraft for everyone. They certainly weren't for me: during my playthroughs I wanted high ore multiplication, fast quarrying, and powerful energy production.
 

Pyure

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I see little point in arguing over the tools. RoC machines scale so huge that by the time you can get the bedrock tools, you'll never use them.
Hah, true and funny point for most cases :)

I still feel for the folks that want to do RoC in their packs but can't though. One could argue "uh, well, they can", to which I'd reply "not without making their kind of pack into a different kind of pack instead."
 

Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
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still feel for the folks that want to do RoC in their packs but can't though. One could argue "uh, well, they can", to which I'd reply "not without making their kind of pack into a different kind of pack instead."
As I have said before, the kind of packs RC is a bad fit for are contrived, and most are special kinds of HQM. That said, such pack types are coming to dominate, a development I cannot say pleases me.

Also, regarding modifications, stay tuned on that, because I have some ideas that may see the light of day if I can work out some logistical and drama-related issues.

Funny, I recollect legions of people after the Extractor more than anything else.
The extractor is of comparable popularity. Those two items - with the borer coming a distant third - are the most commonly sought after in the mod.


I need >= 1 reasonably intelligent person making the request to establish my point: the bedrock tools are not "the point" of rotarycraft for everyone. They certainly weren't for me: during my playthroughs I wanted high ore multiplication, fast quarrying, and powerful energy production.
I never said they were "the point", just that an option to disable them is not a good idea. This is especially true if you count all the servers back in Monster that wanted to ban them ("because OP") against the will of the players. For one of the most popular items in the mod, a config to turn it off can only go downhill.
 
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Pyure

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As I have said before, the kind of packs RC is a bad fit for are contrived, and most are special kinds of HQM. That said, such pack types are coming to dominate, a development I cannot say pleases me.
Not sure what you mean by "contrived". In my case, its packs that take several months to get to end-tier stuff. This sort of pack would be of zero interest to you. But then again, I don't have the kind of patience it takes to make the kind of bases you make (which are amazingly well-designed both functionally and aesthetically). Its different playstyles, but I wouldn't consider either type "contrived." Nor would I consider the "months-long-grind" pack to be grindy in any sort of negative sense.

The extractor is of comparable popularity. Those two items - with the borer coming a distant third - are the most commonly sought after in the mod.
I'd forgotten the borer or I would have included those in my thoughts.

I never said they were "the point", just that an option to disable them is not a good idea. This is especially true if you count all the servers back in Monster that wanted to ban them ("because OP") against the will of the players. For one of the most popular items in the mod, a config to turn it off can only go downhill.
You didn't say it, someone else did. It was a logical error that you wouldn't have made. I corrected it.

However, speaking of logical errors, an "option" can never go downhill, only its use. As an example, when we lower the output of our Big Reactors so that its only 5% of the default, our users don't go running to E.Beef to complain. They bitch at us. We tell them to go play Infinity or turn up the config on their end. Its a simple discussion which ends with the highest possible number of people being happy.

The only people who are not happy are those who play on a specific server with settings they don't like. This number of people is lower than the number of people we'd have if we couldn't tweak the config. Therefore the config is net-positive.
 

Elwoodio

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I think its a fantastic mod that I use on a private server along side lots of other mods and it is generally good to be able to use for ore processing and gathering . we even attempted to make the torqamak on a previous iteration and we didn't even consider the bedrock tools by the time we had got to the point of having them they say in an ender chest most of the time.
 

Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
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Sep 3, 2013
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Not sure what you mean by "contrived". In my case, its packs that take several months to get to end-tier stuff. This sort of pack would be of zero interest to you. But then again, I don't have the kind of patience it takes to make the kind of bases you make (which are amazingly well-designed both functionally and aesthetically). Its different playstyles, but I wouldn't consider either type "contrived." Nor would I consider the "months-long-grind" pack to be grindy in any sort of negative sense.
RC can easily be fit into packs like that (especially nowadays), and Demo has one such example. I am talking packs like "All progress must be through thaumcraft", "ore is a rare drop from the ender dragon", "crops don't grow", et cetera. Most do tend to be hardcore-oriented, but you do get a few weird ones to the other end of the spectrum ("mobs drop totally randomized items, so mob farms can drop machines").


However, speaking of logical errors, an "option" can never go downhill, only its use. As an example, when we lower the output of our Big Reactors so that its only 5% of the default, our users don't go running to E.Beef to complain. They bitch at us. We tell them to go play Infinity or turn up the config on their end. Its a simple discussion which ends with the highest possible number of people being happy.
Your server clearly has more reasonable players than the majority, but also, you are likely a community of friends, and as a result the users feel they can come to you and have some input on the server's design. This is not the case with most big servers.

The only people who are not happy are those who play on a specific server with settings they don't like. This number of people is lower than the number of people we'd have if we couldn't tweak the config. Therefore the config is net-positive.
This is fundamentally the "if they didn't like it they would find another server" argument, one which falls flat when you either take most servers as having this problem, as well as when you bring up concerns like "what if I don't want to leave friends/can't find another with the same pack/spent 6 months here already".
 
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choco218

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Those two items - with the borer coming a distant third
not for me =) when I looked this one up the first time, I was like : GIMMEGIMMEGIMME. ( energy production to sustain 700 blocks/s ? eh. not so much )

BTW got some annoying issue in my world. Every 2 or 3 seconds, all my RoC related stuff ( machines, shafts..) flickers and I can see every single orientation ( input/output) for half a second. At the beginning it was funny but now I'm seeing green/red lights when closing my eyes x)
 

Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
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not for me =) when I looked this one up the first time, I was like : GIMMEGIMMEGIMME. ( energy production to sustain 700 blocks/s ? eh. not so much )

BTW got some annoying issue in my world. Every 2 or 3 seconds, all my RoC related stuff ( machines, shafts..) flickers and I can see every single orientation ( input/output) for half a second. At the beginning it was funny but now I'm seeing green/red lights when closing my eyes x)
Do you have escaping steam or changing waterflows?

Or..it could be caused by a wall of borers and the resulting block updates from that. :p
 

choco218

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Or..it could be caused by a wall of borers and the resulting block updates from that.

I do, but in another world chunkloaded. No escaping steam because I don't do that anymore ( tend to get HP turbines ASAP).

Maybe my 5 by 5 mob harvester farm, powered from underneath ? got a lot of shafts/power buses there.

EDIT : ok after some time, it's a graphical glitch where all my machines appear to rotate for 90°. @Reika I'm in v6e, any chances that v6f could fix this ? ( asking because the ~70M all your mods weight together is enough to keep my connection busy for 4 hours x)
 
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ScorpioOld

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As I have said before, the kind of packs RC is a bad fit for are contrived, and most are special kinds of HQM. That said, such pack types are coming to dominate, a development I cannot say pleases me.

In one moment I was so excited about RC that I started creating HQM world around MFFS, which had to be conquered step by step with more powerful RC infrastructure. Unfortunately, MFFS did not make 7.10 in time so idea vanished together with time available for the project. I believe interesting HQM story around RC can introduce it into community by flushing boring tree farming in majority of packs.
 

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Pyure

Not Totally Useless
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RC can easily be fit into packs like that (especially nowadays), and Demo has one such example. I am talking packs like "All progress must be through thaumcraft", "ore is a rare drop from the ender dragon", "crops don't grow", et cetera. Most do tend to be hardcore-oriented, but you do get a few weird ones to the other end of the spectrum ("mobs drop totally randomized items, so mob farms can drop machines").
Your reply here doesn't seem to directly connect to the quote you used from me, just FYI. But since you say "easily": that's a relative term that I dispute in principal, but rather than bitch about semantics, I think I can make a much more clear point. As easy as you think it is to incorporate RoC into any balanced, high-difficulty pack, its much easier to do so with any of the following:
  • Gregtech
  • Big Reactors
  • Galacticraft
  • Industrialcraft
  • Extra Utilities
  • Ender IO
  • Applied Energistics 2
  • Forestry
  • Buildcraft
  • ProjectRed
  • RailCraft
  • Refined Relocation
  • PneumaticCraft
  • Gravisuite
Here I can make Big Reactors produce a tiny fraction of their default output (since they're safe and easy to assemble). I can make "passively cooled" reactors middle-tier tech. I can alter the recipe of the turbines so that "actively cooled" reactors are later-game tech. I have all these amazing configuration/tweaking abilities and I have never, ever once heard of a single player complaining to E.Beef about a single change.

If I want to design a balanced pack using good game design principals, then simply shifting the entry gate to RoC doesn't help: the extractor HAS to be later than wussier ore multipliers from IndustrialCraft. The boring machine HAS to be later than wussier quarries like the BC version. Otherwise nobody would ever use those inferior machines. And if I simply push RoC to require some later-tier GT tech, then suddenly your low-tech blocks such as the fermenter are also pushed into late-tech. That's not fun for anybody. Btw, I'm not sure what our friend Demosthenex pulled off with his pack (I'm sure its awesome) but I'm certain he didn't pull that off.

This is fundamentally the "if they didn't like it they would find another server" argument, one which falls flat when you either take most servers as having this problem, as well as when you bring up concerns like "what if I don't want to leave friends/can't find another with the same pack/spent 6 months here already".
...My universe is clearly more pleasant than yours.


PS: I chuckled at your odd pack examples with machine-spawning mob-farms.
 

Pyure

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1M Industries

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1M, you read fast :)

I'm not sure why anyone would treat haters like anything other than spam. There are people who actually troll for amusement. They get off on it. In that respect, they're identical to the regular spam I get about penis enlargment and russian brides: I delete without reading, filter if I can, ban when I must. Its just white-noise to me.
Yep, I work quickly. We are trying to filter the spam and hate out, but it is a never ending battle. At least it is fun to do! (Yes, I am weird and like tech support.)
 
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Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
FTB Mod Dev
Sep 3, 2013
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5,331
550
Toronto, Canada
sites.google.com
Your reply here doesn't seem to directly connect to the quote you used from me, just FYI. But since you say "easily": that's a relative term that I dispute in principal, but rather than bitch about semantics, I think I can make a much more clear point. As easy as you think it is to incorporate RoC into any balanced, high-difficulty pack, its much easier to do so with any of the following:
  • Gregtech
  • Big Reactors
  • Galacticraft
  • Industrialcraft
  • Extra Utilities
  • Ender IO
  • Applied Energistics 2
  • Forestry
  • Buildcraft
  • ProjectRed
  • RailCraft
  • Refined Relocation
  • PneumaticCraft
  • Gravisuite
Here I can make Big Reactors produce a tiny fraction of their default output (since they're safe and easy to assemble). I can make "passively cooled" reactors middle-tier tech. I can alter the recipe of the turbines so that "actively cooled" reactors are later-game tech. I have all these amazing configuration/tweaking abilities and I have never, ever once heard of a single player complaining to E.Beef about a single change.
I do not really see this as being meaningful.

If I want to design a balanced pack using good game design principals, then simply shifting the entry gate to RoC doesn't help: the extractor HAS to be later than wussier ore multipliers from IndustrialCraft. The boring machine HAS to be later than wussier quarries like the BC version.
See, now this is something I am willing to consider and accept input on. Remember, all my rules are concerned with things like removing a machine or adding an alternate recipe for tungsten.

...My universe is clearly more pleasant than yours.
But mine is more realistic. :p

PS: I chuckled at your odd pack examples with machine-spawning mob-farms.
Unbelievably, they are all real.
 
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