BC conductive pipes are being changed...

  • Please make sure you are posting in the correct place. Server ads go here and modpack bugs go here
  • The FTB Forum is now read-only, and is here as an archive. To participate in our community discussions, please join our Discord! https://ftb.team/discord
Status
Not open for further replies.
King Lemming said:
Yeah sorry for the confusion, I just didn't want to quote the youtube video embed. That's really what I was responding to. ;)

And nah, I've never played Minia, but the screenshots are pretty darn impressive.
Click to expand...

Ah, right, well, It's just that I'd kinda like it if you had a few more exchanges, they're pretty darn informative. Also a bit of a joke as well ;).
 
ShneekeyTheLost said:
But BC machines becoming 'lossy' is just going to kill any chance of anyone ever wanting to use one. The hunt for the Better Quarry will become far more fierce.
Click to expand...
Is it that severe an issue, unless the passive drain is huge? Forestry machine have always sucked up extra power, and people haven't exactly panicked over that. Buildcraft power's not historically been like IC2 power, where you could easily store it into small packets (although it sounds like KingLemming is fixing that, if there are more energy cell types), and the vast majority of FTB players that delve into it seem to have preferred lossy always-on solutions anyway -- see the prevalence of 36-HP steam boilers, often connected to piles of sometimes-on equipment.
I've used more IC2 power, so that is an honest question.
arentol said:
We actually used to effectively have distributed power only as power loss made centralized power prohibitive. I think there is really no need to go back to that constrictive model. A model where you can CHOOSE when to centralize and decentralize is much more fun I think. Being forced to use one or the other just ends up adding frustration to the game.
Click to expand...

Besides, for the most part I am not talking about moving power 50 chunks or something, I am thinking more like a power plant on the outskirts (or deep below, or high above, etc.) someones base, or on the edge of a city on a server. Imagine how it is with the new changes above.... Even with a communal power plant right in the middle of a city of 49 32x32 plots, if you want to distribute just 32MJ to each house, you would need (according to some rough calculations) about 448 diamond pipes, 256 gold pipes, and 128 stone pipes, and doubling the MJ distributed would pretty much involve just drastically increasing the number of diamond pipes.
Click to expand...
... I don't think the math works out like that. There aren't 1.5KMJ or 32MJ power plants in normal Buildcraft, for one thing -- any situation requiring Diamond Pipes means you're actively condensing power from multiple sources or using fairly specialized mods, and the most common power sources all fit on Stone Pipe. Even if you needed an always-on communal power plant, it'd make more sense to have two stone pipes to each 'house' with a single gold pipe condensing node per house.
Also, if it was programmed right, such a system wouldn't need to involve calculating lots of details in the intervening chunks even if you did a long run. The special diamond pipes would actually act pretty much like tesseracts with connectivity through the new "cheap" pipes acting like the frequency. So the power would in effect teleport from the input diamond pipes to the output ones. This has a side benefit of greatly reduces calculations on the server.
Click to expand...

That'd be... really hard to handle, especially with how poorly minecraft handles saving data that isn't tied to its internal save structure.
 
gattsuru said:
... I don't think the math works out like that. There aren't 1.5KMJ or 32MJ power plants in normal Buildcraft, for one thing -- any situation requiring Diamond Pipes means you're actively condensing power from multiple sources or using fairly specialized mods, and the most common power sources all fit on Stone Pipe. Even if you needed an always-on communal power plant, it'd make more sense to have two stone pipes to each 'house' with a single gold pipe condensing node per house.
Click to expand...

It is true there aren't typically massive plants in BC alone, but the capability is still there even with no other mods. More importantly though, please show me ONE person or server that uses BC alone as their only MJ using system. A mod designer with dozens of mods based on his mod needs to take such things into consideration or someone will come along and replace him.

It would not make sense, even if cheaper, to have 2 stone pipes too each house because that would mean massive tunnels cluttering the underground of your city to accommodate the multitude of pipes you have to run in parallel. Doubly so if you put the plant on the outskirts as that would mean an initial tunnel housing 96 pipes. Even diamond pipes would be annoying in that situation as you would need 6 of them for all 48 plots. Also expansion would be a massive undertaking instead of a minor one. Basically it would just never happen because people would immediately recognize the logistical issues and give up.

That'd be... really hard to handle, especially with how poorly minecraft handles saving data that isn't tied to its internal save structure.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the save thing, but what I am describing is just a node network which I think it's what they plan to use anyway. As a matter of fact the only thing they should need to do is add a new (affordable) pipe that conducts something outrageous like 8192 MJ, but then make it so absolutely the only thing it is able to connect to is the special diamond pipe. Aside from that it would be behave precisely like the be pipes will behave anyway.

Thinking about it more, the special diamond pipe (which should also conduct 8192MJ) should only connect to three things... The long distance pipes, another special pipe, or diamond pipes, and then only two diamond pipes at a time. That would mean you would need at least 1 special diamond pipe for every 512MJ going into the system in addition to the one per location you pull power out at (and more if pulling out more than 512 at a single location).

Also keep in mind this is just an idea. I am not trying to say anyone is stupid or this is the only way to do things. I just saw some teasers from EDX the other day (above ground power cables like the ones we have in real life + what looked like a small transformer like at the end of your block) and it inspired me to think about power transmission in minecraft in a different way.


Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
 
*admits to pulling the cap values out of the thin air*

I wouldn't mind another tier above 256 MJ/t, but I was running out of material types.

Could have added an Iron Pipe, but I wanted to leave the door open for a some kind of control pipe if we ever felt one was needed. Oh...quartz might be an option though, how rare is quartz compared to Gold and Diamond?
 
CovertJaguar said:
*admits to pulling the cap values out of the thin air*

I wouldn't mind another tier above 256 MJ/t, but I was running out of material types.

Could have added an Iron Pipe, but I wanted to leave the door open for a some kind of control pipe if we ever felt one was needed. Oh...quartz might be an option though, how rare is quartz compared to Gold and Diamond?
Click to expand...
Very common, actually. Once you hit the nether, you can pick up a couple of stacks trivially.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ryanjh5521
CovertJaguar said:
So probably worse than Gold, better than Stone.
Click to expand...
That's about where I'd peg it.

However, it does require nether access, unlike any of the other materials. So perhaps you use Quartz Blocks instead of Quartz and make it a high-throughput that will only connect to diamond pipes for long-distance transportation. So basically you have your power setup with Wooden hooked up to Cobble which then feeds into Stone and Gold and finally Diamond pipe at the power station, then you've got the Quartz Line running from that diamond pipe to the one at your Remote Base where it is then 'downstepped' to various machines or systems.

In other words, the same throughput as Diamond, but intended for long distance transportation. Otherwise, you're just going to get a dozen 'Teleport Pipe' mods because no one wants to run diamond pipe that far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ryanjh5521 and Lambert2191
Poppycocks said:
Not exactly unlimited, let's just say that the only thing which could go over the maximum would be the entire output of a fusion reactor converted trough an untrothled(you'd have to change the configs) power converter.

Thanks man, good news.
Click to expand...


Didnt KL say it was a datatype overflow condition that actually capped it out?
 
Bomb Bloke said:
The changes to BC sound like a counter to TE's "no MJ loss so long as you use as much TE stuff as possible" system:
Click to expand...

This is not TE's philosophy, implementation, or result in practice, unless I misunderstand what you're getting at.

Bomb Bloke said:
Presumably conduits would always feed power to machines that don't really need it, causing constant waste. If so? Well, I'm betting we'll soon see a TE update to try and put conduits back into the "just build these once then forget about the whole MJ distribution system" area again.
Click to expand...

That's actually not really what conduits are about. Their design is actually very constrained around what's performant. The pipe overhauls should have similar effects. In practice though you still need to think about your power network because of how expensive it is to transition in and out of the network.
 
King Lemming said:
-4 Tiers of Energy Cells, Portable Tanks, and Strongboxes (portable chests)
-2 Tiers of Energy Conduit
Click to expand...

I'm one of those types that hates to build something like a tier 1 item and then have it taking up space in a chest later when I have moved on to tier 2. Please consider having an upgrade recipe for your tier 2 items that use a tier 1 item, so I can upgrade my tier 1 energy conduits into tier 2 energy conduits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmixmaster, RedBoss and ShneekeyTheLost
Finally something that beats those conduits only thing is to keep all the machines going and/or restricted whenever they're not at work and bam losssless mj at last.
 
dakamojo said:
I'm one of those types that hates to build something like a tier 1 item and then have it taking up space in a chest later when I have moved on to tier 2. Please consider having an upgrade recipe for your tier 2 items that use a tier 1 item, so I can upgrade my tier 1 energy conduits into tier 2 energy conduits.
Click to expand...

I second this motion!

Maybe something like Tier 1 conduits require the empty conduit filled with, say, water. The Tier 2 conduits require liquid redstone. So to upgrade, you put the Tier 1 conduits in the Liquid Transposer to pull the water -out-, pipe it out, then pipe in liquid redstone and refill. Bam and done.
 
dakamojo said:
I'm one of those types that hates to build something like a tier 1 item and then have it taking up space in a chest later when I have moved on to tier 2. Please consider having an upgrade recipe for your tier 2 items that use a tier 1 item, so I can upgrade my tier 1 energy conduits into tier 2 energy conduits.
Click to expand...
I believe the tier 2 conduits are the redstone energy conduits. I thought he was talking about adding a cheaper tier 1 version.
 
Yep but he want to be able to use the tier one conduits to make the redstone conduits so it's doesn't waste the tier one. But for right off the bat make it so you have to spend roughly the same mats.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom