Ask a simple question, get a simple answer

[Nephrahim]

This is a bit of an odd question... it's more of a "Check my maths" than anything else, because I've run into this and it's bugging me.

I'm currently running an FTB Beyond game where I'm looking at interesting ways to expand my power generation. I know I could make a big reactor or some culinary generator tomfoolery, but for some reason in minecraft I require my fuel to be as dirty as possible. Oil, Coal, nuclear, I just want to be dumping imaginary pollution into the air whenever I generate it, I don't know why. Recently I've had my Immersive Engineering Extractor running on a Coal Vein for Diamonds and figured... gee, there must be a way to make RF off of that. I mean, it's mining coal for the ground, it must have a positive RF ammount. But from what I can tell... it doesn't.

The Excavator takes 4,096 RF a tic to run, and produces an ore ever 3 seconds. This means it takes takes 60 ticks, or 245,760 RF per coal ore (Technically more since some will be diamond or emerald but like 95% is coal so let's fudge that) Coke Coal produces 32,000 RF per item in a Furnace Generator, which means 4 of them will produce a total of 128,000 RF per ore, nearly half the RF it takes to mine it!?!

Obviously the Excavator is more meant for mining ores you need while you get your power gen from somthing else, but it just seems so crazy that it would be such a huge waste of RF to mine coal that I want someone to check my maths (And minecraft) to make sure that I'm not crazy.

 

[SevenMass]

@Nephrahim

You may be able to do better, producing coke means producing creosote oil, and there are ways to turn that into power.

Also, you could go the liquefied coal route with TE, those 4 coal could be turned into 900,000 - 64,000 = 836,000 RF.
Wait, you said coal *ore* ? Then its even better!
Those 4 ores could be pulverized into 13 coal worth of material, that can be turned into 2,925,000 - 222,000 = 2,703,000 RF

 

[asb3pe]

Let me wax lyrical about the cut of your jib for a moment

That was absolutely the most lyrical waxing I've ever had the pleasure of reading in my long lifetime! You, sir, are a true wordsmith!

I'm not sure what that first question is even after. Sneaky Torches was an awesome 1.10 mod for the task, and Immersive Engineering Floodlights seem to work just fine.

I never heard of the Sneaky Torches mod, so I'll look that one up.

And when you say "seem to work just fine" for the floodlights... well I've said that about EVERY large area lighting item... only to find out later that the "hidden light sources" trick that they all seem to be using DOES INDEED cause problems. In one pack I was playing, the Galacticraft Floodlights I was using for my farm area was impacting my crops, someone finally informed me that the "hidden" lights were not invisible to the IC2 crops, meaning the crops viewed the "hidden lights" as opaque blocks, which then impacted their growth cycle (because the crops have a requirement that there are no solid blocks anywhere in the vicinity).

So for this reason, I've always avoided items like Immersive floodlights, Thaumcraft lanterns, etc.

If I'm wrong with my view on how problematic these items are, I wish someone would clear it all up for us. Since the lighting is "hidden" and invisible, it's often difficult to tell what is going wrong. I wrestled with my IC2 crops problems for many weeks until someone suggested I remove the lighting I was using, and that resolved it immediately.

Another pack I was playing actually showed the Thaumcraft lantern light sources on the journeymap for some reason... that was nice, because it allowed me to see just how many light sources it was adding... hundreds.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

@Nephrahim

You may be able to do better, producing coke means producing creosote oil, and there are ways to turn that into power.

Also, you could go the liquefied coal route with TE, those 4 coal could be turned into 900,000 - 64,000 = 836,000 RF.
Wait, you said coal *ore* ? Then its even better!
Those 4 ores could be pulverized into 13 coal worth of material, that can be turned into 2,925,000 - 222,000 = 2,703,000 RF

I’m sure the maths behind this is right, but I’d love to know how you worked it out - I’ve got plans for “dirty” power myself, so I want to make sure I haven’t missed anything!

I was going to pulverise the coal and melt it to make liquefacted coal, then use two fractionating stills, each with a reflux column augment for conversion efficiency, and into dynamos with ignition plugs augs. I’ve done no maths on that though, which is why I’m interested!

 

[SevenMass]

I’m sure the maths behind this is right, but I’d love to know how you worked it out - I’ve got plans for “dirty” power myself, so I want to make sure I haven’t missed anything!

I was going to pulverise the coal and melt it to make liquefacted coal, then use two fractionating stills, each with a reflux column augment for conversion efficiency, and into dynamos with ignition plugs augs. I’ve done no maths on that though, which is why I’m interested!

1 coal ore is pulverized into 3 coal with a 25% chance of getting coal dust. So a continues 4 coal ore per unit of time translate into 4*3=12 + 4*0,25=1 so that is 13 coal dust in total. (I didn't bother calculating the effects of auxiliary sieves)

I don't know how Nephrahim got to 4 coal ore in his calculation. I just wanted to point out he can do better than coal coke.

According to the TE documentation, pulverizing coal ore takes 4k RF and pulverizing coal takes 2k. Liquefying coal dust takes 4k and produces 100mb.

200mb of liq coal becomes 150mb of naphtha with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 100mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.
150mb of naphtha becomes 150mb of Refined fuel with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 75mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.

1k mb becomes 3,000k RF in the compression dynamo using the Ignition Plugs augment.
so 75mb becomes 75/1k * 3000k RF = 225k RF

The total cost from dust to fuel is 4k + 5k +5k = 14k RF

For 4 coal ore it takes 4*4k +12*2k = 16k+24k =40k RF to make 13 coal dust.
And 13*14k =182k RF to make 13*75mb =975mb of fuel. Which generates 13*225k = 2925k RF

Total RF cost for 4 coal ore: 40K + 182k = 222k RF.
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore: 2925k - 222k = 2703k RF.

For a single coal ore, just divide those numbers by 4, and keep in mind that I turned % chance into a fraction.


Actually, with the help of the fuel catalyzer augments, I can do even better still...

3 fuel catalyzers add 45% efficiency on top of the 50% from Ignition Plugs.
So 1k mb of fuel becomes 2000k * 1.95 = 3900k RF.
And 75 mb becomes 75/1k*3900k = 292.5k RF.
And 975mb becomes 13*292.5k = 3802.5k RF
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore becomes 3802.5k - 222k = 3580.5k RF

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

1 coal ore is pulverized into 3 coal with a 25% chance of getting coal dust. So a continues 4 coal ore per unit of time translate into 4*3=12 + 4*0,25=1 so that is 13 coal dust in total. (I didn't bother calculating the effects of auxiliary sieves)

I don't know how Nephrahim got to 4 coal ore in his calculation. I just wanted to point out he can do better than coal coke.

According to the TE documentation, pulverizing coal ore takes 4k RF and pulverizing coal takes 2k. Liquefying coal dust takes 4k and produces 100mb.

200mb of liq coal becomes 150mb of naphtha with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 100mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.
150mb of naphtha becomes 150mb of Refined fuel with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 75mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.

1k mb becomes 3,000k RF in the compression dynamo using the Ignition Plugs augment.
so 75mb becomes 75/1k * 3000k RF = 225k RF

The total cost from dust to fuel is 4k + 5k +5k = 14k RF

For 4 coal ore it takes 4*4k +12*2k = 16k+24k =40k RF to make 13 coal dust.
And 13*14k =182k RF to make 13*75mb =975mb of fuel. Which generates 13*225k = 2925k RF

Total RF cost for 4 coal ore: 40K + 182k = 222k RF.
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore: 2925k - 222k = 2703k RF.

For a single coal ore, just divide those numbers by 4, and keep in mind that I turned % chance into a fraction.


Actually, with the help of the fuel catalyzer augments, I can do even better still...

3 fuel catalyzers add 45% efficiency on top of the 50% from Ignition Plugs.
So 1k mb of fuel becomes 2000k * 1.95 = 3900k RF.
And 75 mb becomes 75/1k*3900k = 292.5k RF.
And 975mb becomes 13*292.5k = 3802.5k RF
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore becomes 3802.5k - 222k = 3580.5k RF

Awesome, thank you for that! Sounds like we’re on the same page with augments and things, so that gives me a good idea of whether it’s a good plan (looks like it is!) - cheers @SevenMass

 

[KingTriaxx]

For Immersive's large lighting sources, they're relatively lag free once turned on. The lag comes from them switching on/off.

Looks like the Flood Light uses the same sort of ray casting to generate it's light sources that it does when you run IE wires. Watching it turn on and off for a bit it looks to generate about a dozen light sources but I don't see any evidence of them with the usual tricks for seeing hidden lighting.

 

[Inaeo]

1 coal ore is pulverized into 3 coal with a 25% chance of getting coal dust. So a continues 4 coal ore per unit of time translate into 4*3=12 + 4*0,25=1 so that is 13 coal dust in total. (I didn't bother calculating the effects of auxiliary sieves)

I don't know how Nephrahim got to 4 coal ore in his calculation. I just wanted to point out he can do better than coal coke.

According to the TE documentation, pulverizing coal ore takes 4k RF and pulverizing coal takes 2k. Liquefying coal dust takes 4k and produces 100mb.

200mb of liq coal becomes 150mb of naphtha with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 100mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.
150mb of naphtha becomes 150mb of Refined fuel with the Reflux Column augment, and takes 2*5K=10k RF
So 75mb becomes 75mb at 5k RF.

1k mb becomes 3,000k RF in the compression dynamo using the Ignition Plugs augment.
so 75mb becomes 75/1k * 3000k RF = 225k RF

The total cost from dust to fuel is 4k + 5k +5k = 14k RF

For 4 coal ore it takes 4*4k +12*2k = 16k+24k =40k RF to make 13 coal dust.
And 13*14k =182k RF to make 13*75mb =975mb of fuel. Which generates 13*225k = 2925k RF

Total RF cost for 4 coal ore: 40K + 182k = 222k RF.
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore: 2925k - 222k = 2703k RF.

For a single coal ore, just divide those numbers by 4, and keep in mind that I turned % chance into a fraction.


Actually, with the help of the fuel catalyzer augments, I can do even better still...

3 fuel catalyzers add 45% efficiency on top of the 50% from Ignition Plugs.
So 1k mb of fuel becomes 2000k * 1.95 = 3900k RF.
And 75 mb becomes 75/1k*3900k = 292.5k RF.
And 975mb becomes 13*292.5k = 3802.5k RF
Net RF gain for 4 coal ore becomes 3802.5k - 222k = 3580.5k RF

I like the cut off your abacus.

 

[Dezz]

Where would I go to set permanent changes to the JVM arguments? And is installing additional mods as simple as dragging and dropping the files into the install directory in their appropriate locations?

 

[Nephrahim]

Thanks for the help, all! I didn't mean 4 coal ore, I meant the coal ore creates 4 coal (Well, 3 and a good chance at some dust. I thought it was 90 but I guess it's a bit less) but still those are promising numbers! I'm gonna get started on that soon!

 

[asb3pe]

Playing Sky Factory 3 modpack, and I notice that JEI no longer shows the Item ID numbers (I'm new to the v1.10.2 mods and i'm used to seeing the item id codes in v1.7.10 modpacks).

For instance, SF3 has chickens... lots and lots of chickens, 80 by my count... and therefore I have 80 different chicken eggs to void. Well that's easy enough, right? Wrong - using the "Ignore MetaData" button on my EnderIO Item Conduit filter doesn't work... which must mean that the chicken eggs aren't using MetaData? Do they use NBT data instead? Or perhaps each egg is an entirely different item ID so I'll have to blacklist 80 different egg types? LOL and sigh, does anybody know the answer?

I did a data dump listing all the blocks in SF3, but there are no egg items shown in either the Hatchery mod items, nor the Chickens mod items. I have no idea how the eggs are being handled, and thus I have no idea how to filter them.

 

[Inaeo]

Playing Sky Factory 3 modpack, and I notice that JEI no longer shows the Item ID numbers (I'm new to the v1.10.2 mods and i'm used to seeing the item id codes in v1.7.10 modpacks).

For instance, SF3 has chickens... lots and lots of chickens, 80 by my count... and therefore I have 80 different chicken eggs to void. Well that's easy enough, right? Wrong - using the "Ignore MetaData" button on my EnderIO Item Conduit filter doesn't work... which must mean that the chicken eggs aren't using MetaData? Do they use NBT data instead? Or perhaps each egg is an entirely different item ID so I'll have to blacklist 80 different egg types? LOL and sigh, does anybody know the answer?

I did a data dump listing all the blocks in SF3, but there are no egg items shown in either the Hatchery mod items, nor the Chickens mod items. I have no idea how the eggs are being handled, and thus I have no idea how to filter them.

For what it's worth, I recall people recycling extra eggs into dirt.

There should be an option in HWYLA or WAILA or whatever mod is handling that for you to show block IDs and Metadata. WAILA has typically used the number pad for options menus, but check your keybinds to be sure.

 

[SolManX]

Playing Sky Factory 3 modpack, and I notice that JEI no longer shows the Item ID numbers (I'm new to the v1.10.2 mods and i'm used to seeing the item id codes in v1.7.10 modpacks).
...

Just checking - have you got 'advanced tooltips' turned on, by pressing F3+H?

 

[asb3pe]

Just checking - have you got 'advanced tooltips' turned on, by pressing F3+H?

Well of course I have it turned on... now that you mentioned it. LOL Thanks, that worked so easily. Why would they hide the Item ID's behind a hidden keypress? Sheesh, these Microsoft clowns sure have a way of "Windows-ing" our beloved game, don't they? sigh

Now I see what the problem is with the Item ID's, and it's a strange one. It turns out that the eggs the chickens lay are NOT the same eggs as the ones shown in JEI. Not even close. JEI egg Item ID's are either 5204 or 5205, but the eggs I'm getting in my Refined Storage are all Item ID 6353.

But as I suspected, I also notice the eggs are not using Metadata numbers to differentiate them, but rather the mod is using NBT data instead (the advanced tooltips just shows "NBT:3 tags" but that's all I needed to see).

Thanks to you for mentioning a good solution, and a big BOO! HISS! to programmers that hide stuff. Item ID's are absolutely necessary to see, why did they have to change that? Dumb and dumber.

 

[SolManX]

I think the F3 commands go back along time and were there primarily for debugging purposes. Not sure they're fantastically useful in vanilla, although I always want to see damage values. And, of course, for modded they're very useful.

 

[OniyaMCD]

And when you say "seem to work just fine" for the floodlights... well I've said that about EVERY large area lighting item... only to find out later that the "hidden light sources" trick that they all seem to be using DOES INDEED cause problems. In one pack I was playing, the Galacticraft Floodlights I was using for my farm area was impacting my crops, someone finally informed me that the "hidden" lights were not invisible to the IC2 crops, meaning the crops viewed the "hidden lights" as opaque blocks, which then impacted their growth cycle (because the crops have a requirement that there are no solid blocks anywhere in the vicinity).

I've become a big fan of the Carpenter's Block trick of sneak-clicking glowstone dust onto a Carpenter's Block. Same light as a torch, with no physical 'object'. There's also a 'Light' from Ender I/O (also available in Inverted, which means 'always on unless given a Redstone signal') which is low profile and gives a nice clean aesthetic.

 

[malicious_bloke]

So yeah, turns out RFTools dimension machines aren't in FTB Revelations somehow

Spoiler

I am bloke's lack of dimension builder

I checked the configs for RFTools and I can't see an option to enable this. I could be missing something though?

EDIT: ffs lol, it's a separate mod now.

Problem solved XD

 

[asb3pe]

Playing Sky Factory 3, and I made a Tinkers Construct Crossbow and Bolts. The XP for the Bolts is rising upwards just fine, they already leveled up once for me. However, the Crossbow's tooltip is still showing "Level: Clumsy" and "XP: 0/500", meaning all the XP gained from killing mobs is going to the Bolts, and none at all is going to the Crossbow. Is this normal, and how can I level up the Crossbow?

 

[asb3pe]

For what it's worth, I recall people recycling extra eggs into dirt.

Somehow I missed that "trick" when I looked thru the recipes in JEI. Dirt was definitely an item that wasn't getting much love in my world... so thanks for this great tip. Composting barrels for the win!

 

[Inaeo]

Playing Sky Factory 3, and I made a Tinkers Construct Crossbow and Bolts. The XP for the Bolts is rising upwards just fine, they already leveled up once for me. However, the Crossbow's tooltip is still showing "Level: Clumsy" and "XP: 0/500", meaning all the XP gained from killing mobs is going to the Bolts, and none at all is going to the Crossbow. Is this normal, and how can I level up the Crossbow?

Bash things to death with it. Easiest to use a mob drop trap that leaves them with half a heart.