April News

Discussion in 'Feed the Beast News' started by Feed the Beast, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Senseidragon

    Senseidragon Well-Known Member

    Ok, assume for the moment that my guess that a completely fabricated automobile analogy would be easier to follow than some convoluted example involving "Doctors without Borders" or "Make A Wish foundation" or something equally silly.

    The point, as clarified in the paragraph immediately below that one, is that it doesn't take a whole lot of time, regardless of whether you're a volunteer or a paid-for-every-second-you're-on-the-clock contractor, for a simple yes or no answer to "is this mod in the pack?".

    I then went on to explain there could be a very good reason why the answer is not provided, which did not even boil down to "someone just didn't feel like being bothered to answer the question."

    My apologies for bristling at what I perceived was you ignoring all of that "other stuff" in the post. :)
  2. Magzie

    Magzie Well-Known Member

    No it is cool I understand that part and agree with it. How ever I see that answering one such question would make everyone start coming on here asking if this or that mod is in. But that is minor and I choose to point out that people on the this thread all to many times keep saying that game dev companies give ETAs so should FTB. But that isn't true. Take Stardew Valley's Mutliplayer update. They have chosen to not give a ETA and only update the progress with just a few hints at when it will be ready. The problem as I have already stated is not anything being argued about but the fact that it isn't released yet. People don't like being patient and want it now. I mean you can go watch people play it for hours through progression and still people are mad cause they will not release a mod list.
    Senseidragon likes this.
  3. Senseidragon

    Senseidragon Well-Known Member

    I agree with what you said regarding FTB not being obligated to give release dates, and unless someone has been living under a rock for the last 5-6 years, everyone knows full well how impatient and arrogant people can be in demanding updates, timeframes and features.

    I also understand (and agree with) the policy to not release a modlist because by the very nature of developing and configuring a custom modpack will mean that the modlist is going to be in flux. If they were to definitively say "yeah, Thaumcraft 6 is in there" and heaven forbid it wasn't in the final release, it doesn't matter what the reasoning for excluding it was, someone would rage.

    As a retired developer, I am keenly aware of the effects of "public input" during the development process. It has benefits, to be sure, but it has a lot of downsides as well. It is very easy to talk yourself into lofty promises you ultimately can't keep, and you will be taken to task for it, no matter how well-intentioned you may have been.

    However, it is also important to not neglect your user base either, especially so for open source or volunteer efforts. FTB earned a lot of positive reputation over the years for what it has produced, and that has carried them far. All in all, I think they are doing a very good job with the resources they have. But regular updates are important, even if it literally is nothing more than "We really are still working on this, guys. We've narrowed our reported issues down to half a dozen pages or so, and hope to have more to report next [insert appropriate timeframe here]."

    Remember, pack makers and mod authors are frequently not the same thing. Pack makers generally have little to no input on when a given mod author is going to update their mod, or fix a bug, or add a really desired feature to complete a pack. Just as the pack developers are unpaid volunteers, so are the mod authors. Way too many end users seem to let this slip their minds when clamoring to "release it now, we won't mind the bugs, we promise!" "Our users love world corrupting errors! we love losing hours of progress because we didn't want to wait the extra couple of weeks for this to get hunted down and fixed!"

    Edit: All that being said, I'd still like to know if OpenComputers is in the pack or not. :)
  4. Magzie

    Magzie Well-Known Member

    Well see that is part of the problem isn't it. Regular Updates is an opinion. They already produce monthly updates on FTB in general. As well as Streamers that are streaming the packs and Youtubers LPing the packs. The question isn't if they give regular updates. How long each person thinks Regular updates to be. For FTB they clearly think that is Monthly. They have said more then once that there isn't any reason to post update everyday just saying we are working on it. SO how often could they Produce updates to make impatient people happy. That is the Million Dollar Question.
  5. Senseidragon

    Senseidragon Well-Known Member

    When and how frequently they provide updates is completely up to them. But being too infrequent or irregular can be interpreted (correctly or not) that the developers are losing interest in seriously producing something. It's a risk people take in any project that has a public facing. For FTB, with the exception of January, they've been fairly good about keeping to monthly updates, and releasing them during the first half of the month to boot. :D

    What I was saying is that it is important to keep letting people know you're working on something. No need to be specific, no need to reveal anything you're not ready to reveal, but at least taking the time to let the fans know something about progress is good. Sometimes the update may not even be good news. It's still appreciated and lets people feel like they're at least being kept in the loop.

    I think we're mostly talking in circles at this point. The FTB team can and will do what they want with their projects. Their fanbase can and will express their opinions on whether they feel they are being heard or not. The FTB team can and will respond to that input as they choose.

    I hopped in because I sensed frustration levels were definitely rising, and I tried to release some of the pressure. At this point, I think I am not so much doing that, so I'm going to hop back into observer mode and wait patiently for another update, or maybe an answer to that last line in my prior response! :)
    Pyure likes this.
  6. Magzie

    Magzie Well-Known Member

    This is only funny cause us Forum Police do this dance every day. Just go back and check some of the back news Threads.
  7. zBob

    zBob New Member

    So this happens every time anyone tries to send any criticism towards anything done by FtB. The forum police come riding in to defend FtB"s honour because they feel it has somehow been slighted and they have the power to restore it. I would feel differently about the answers if somehow they claimed to have more knowledge on the subject than the rest of us regulars around here. None of them have any type of forum badge, they do not have access to FtB One nor do they claim to personally know anyone who has access. Clearly they watch many videos/streams so there are times knowledge from that is helpful. But frequently they seem to be taking over a moderator role that I have not seen bestowed upon nay of them. Other forums and discords I read normally have rules about unauthorized moderation and I am speaking up now in public as it is my opinion this has gone on far too long. It is clearly giving people a bad impression of how things are being run here on the forums.

    The simple point I am trying to make hre is that we end up in these circular arguements because a group of not fully informed people feel the need to step up and answer questions or respond to statements. This problem could most easily be solved if the the actual moderators stepped up and did just that. Sorry for having to call that out but it appears to be the most simple truth. If the current staff does not have the time to fulfill that role then they really need to take the time to add on more staff. I am well aware that it takes much more time to train someone else to do your current job than it would for you to just keep doing it yourself. But once you take the time to train them properly and trust in their ability then you get all that time back.

    Sorry for adding in my own wall of text to this mess. I started to write this because I was annoyed at one group only to realize when giving it more thought that I was annoyed at two. Hopefully we can have a new town hall meeting soon to answer lots of these questions and try to establish some order here so we won't have to rely on vigilante moderation so much.
    Senseidragon and Pyure like this.
  8. Pyure

    Pyure Not Totally Useless

    Naw dood, its a forum, we're supposed to engage in conversations. So don't apologize. And I for one enjoyed your insights. Note of course that you're making the same mistake the rest of us are: shining your own rays of wisdom based on your own understanding or lack thereof :p

    I'm not sure what you mean by "moderator role". If people have an opinion about other people's opinions, that's acceptable to share so long as its within the forum's rules (including maintaining the point of that thread) and its reasonably respectful. I do agree that there's too much polarization, either defense or aggression regarding the FTB team. I would argue that its both sides of that polarization the are ill-informed, not just the zealous "police."

    So far the only valid question I've seen for the FTB team was from kuktar, and it was something along the lines of "is it safe to add mod X", and the strong implication behind it was "why aren't you adding mod X". Have I missed some?
    I suspect it was ignored because kuktar's been on a bit of a warpath (for lack of a better term) recently and nobody wants to respond to it. This is wild speculation and to be taken with piles and piles of salt.

    Short version: zBob's right, let's ensure people feel comfortable asking questions without getting shot down. Having said that, people asking questions need to be aware that:
    a) this is a forum, and everyone's allowed to answer, not just moderators.
    b) you should be prepared to receive answers you don't especially want.
  9. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    Just as a side point, the question about OpenComputers was from MissingChromie, on Page 2; other respondents weighed in on either side after that.

    Speaking for my part, I have absolutely been guilty of being defensive about topics on here, and behaved in ways I’m not proud of on occasion. But I’m taking steps to improve on that behaviour and make sure my posts are made in a positive manner.

    As something of an explanation for my perspective, being completely honest: my worry is that in the face of complaining and demanding, swathes of the FTB Team will turn around and go “do you know what? It’s not worth this hassle”, and just STOP. Just drop tools and quit. And that’ll be it, the whole thing will die, there and then.

    I hope that makes my actions in response to some things make a little more sense in context.

    Back on topic: there was TechReborn bug alluded to by one of the YTers playing AoE, relating to the fusion reactor not generating a net positive EU/t, because of requiring the huge startup cost constantly (I think that’s how it went). Given TechReborn’s presence in Continuum, has that been fixed? Also, as an experienced GregTech person @Pyure, what are your thoughts on TechReborn?
    Pyure likes this.
  10. Pyure

    Pyure Not Totally Useless

    Ehh, just my opinion, but: buggy and disappointing. It looks really nice (compared to IC2 anyway), and the machines are well thought out in principal. But I can't get over the over-simplified energy system.

    One of my favorite things to do in GT (and non-IC2e) is managing the multi-dimensional power system. I love the idea of transmission lossiness. I love working out the best way to minimize that loss, including up-transforming my power to higher voltages so that I sent less packets and incur less loss. That just doesn't exist at all in TR afaik.
  11. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    Ah, I can understand that - I also quite liked the way we had to transform up and down to minimise loss! Although those HV cables weren't have thick and expensive, so you couldn't really do the thing we do a lot IRL and use HV for long distance transmission. Only the glass ones really worked in that regard.

    I did a bit more digging; is there an easy way to find out the version of TR used in Age of Engineering? Because according to the GitHub the reactor issue was fixed in TechReborn-1.10.2-!

    EDIT: Given that this fix was pushed out in January, and the last AoE file was released in November, I'm going to guess it never got it - but that also suggests that the version in Continuum, while still no better for the issues that bother you Pyure, may be less buggy and allow you to use it the way it was intended! :)

    EDIT 2: From ftbwiki.org, for Age of Engineering: TechReborn
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  12. Hambeau

    Hambeau Over-Achiever

    That would be Terry Pratchett's version of "Open Computers", would it not? :D
    GamerwithnoGame likes this.
  13. Magzie

    Magzie Well-Known Member

    Ok I agree with parts of this but the statement take some things bit out of context I think. There is a main list of problems on the forums that are asked about.

    1. ETA on packs.
    2. Mod list for packs in Development.
    3. Is this mod in said pack.
    4. No Regular updates on Development.

    These are the list of the "circular arguments" on the News Forums. There is no Town Hall needed for these 4 things because they have already been cover in ether town Halls from the past or in direct quotes from FTB. I don't need to watch 100 hours of FTB one to say hey FTB doesn't give ETAs. Because FTB already said it wasn't happening and why that was.

    Another problem on here is false info. When we see this we try to help. Why well there are allot of players new and not new that just read the info place on the news forums. Correcting this info before it get out of hand. There is allot of stuff that are not covered by Terms that can be fixed by helpful people being nice. When stuff not covered by Terms comes up there isn't much the Mods can do about it. The Open Computers is a great example. Asking if a mod is in the pack is cool. "vigilante moderation" Posting hey FTB doesn't give out mod list until the pack Releases is also fine. But that is where it goes bad cause most time we get 1 page defamatory comments about how FTB can't answer a simple question. We are not stopping people from posting and FTB is free to come on and post whether it is in or not as they have done in past news thread. But by just saying they don't give mod list out ahead we are not trying to stop them from asking but info hey might not get an anwser. People should look at the post and look at the stuff they are posting and ask " Am I try to be Help & nice or just being a Butthole" If it is Butthole maybe not post that.

    With the exception of if this or that mod is in there haven't really been any asked that would require the watching of videos to answer. I have already posting a few times I have not watch but maybe 2 videos. I know you can't say whether a mod is in from just watch JEI pages on videos. Most of the updates mods have had their textures changed for 1.12 anyway. I personal wouldn't even know what Open Computers look like cause I haven't played with it for a bit. Last I did someone said they were moving Turtles into a sapperate mod or something but don't quote me on that. Been a few years.
    Watchful11 and Pyure like this.
  14. Magzie

    Magzie Well-Known Member

    If it was a bug in AOE you could check their Webpage and see if it is something AOE dev fixed if it was reported. That might give some insight on if it was fixed mod dev or could be fixed. I have watch but the first half of Dires playthrough so..
    GamerwithnoGame likes this.
  15. GamerwithnoGame

    GamerwithnoGame Forum Addict

    It’s alright, I answered my own question :) so it was an actual TechReborn bug; it was fixed, but a couple of months after the most recent AoE version. The GitHub was super helpful for that, and I’d recommend anyone who’s got an issue they might think is a bug to check on there, because chances are it may be and have already been reported.

    As for let’s plays, I watched Dires, but I really enjoyed the one by Closet Gamer - his AoE series was fantastic, and I’d recommend it to anyone! :) fun and funny too. It was him who actually mentioned the nature of the bug; he did his research.
  16. Kuktar

    Kuktar Guest

    You are on track with my thoughts. You are asking and making statements I would make. But you are doing it with well thought out carefully planned text. When I ask or talk about FTB not being as good as they used to be about updates I just get bashed for it because I do it way more directly. Thanks for being a voice of reason .
  17. statphantom

    statphantom New Member

    I am personally not watching any streams or videos because I love the raw unknowing experience of it, trial and error, discovery, which is what I am looking forward to as soon as it is out. Nothing has spoiled this for me yet but I do ask if you do talk about specific mechanics, progress points or changes specifically for continuum please put them in spoiler tags, I'm sure there are others like me who would like it all to stay a surprise.
    Kuktar, andrea.valorz, ZakHam and 2 others like this.
  18. Kuktar

    Kuktar Guest

    I will keep this in mind, good looking out. I definitely wouldn't like it if someone spoiled my gameplay.
  19. Kuktar

    Kuktar Guest

    The man himself does a stream on continuum!!!!


    That is a link to Slowpoke101 and his first look at the new expert modpack. Its a really exciting moment.

    It is from the 28th of last month. and he still calls it alpha :p that at least answered my question if its out of alpha or not.
  20. Kuktar

    Kuktar Guest

    SO its worth a watch i ended up watching the whole thing, its really funny to hear slowpoke101 make fun of tfox. I love ftb once again and its slowpokes personality that draws me in to the modpack to love it for what it is.

    ok now i just want to play, i feel left out lol

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