AE2 Discussion
- Thread starter Zenthon_127
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My opinions
Meteors = dislike but don't hate
Channels= Ohhh shiny....
Meteors = dislike but don't hate
Channels= Ohhh shiny....
Part of me hopes some brave soul will port the original AE to 1.7 and beyond. In Bevo's first video about it, I was stoked; everything looked so cool and shiny and the Multipart features sounded incredibly useful. However, after just part I of Direwolf's spotlight, I have to say that I'm...kind of disappointed by what I've seen. Now, you need to rely on random drops in chests which are randomly distributed thru the world and pointless new blocks just to get started. Say what you want about the logic programmer thing from Factorization, but at least that isn't required to so much as begin working with the mod's most basic features. Now, the compass is pretty easy to make and does simplify the process, but the question remains: why make it a random drop in the first place? If you wanted the recipes to be more resource-efficient (which, in all fairness, they are), then why not make the presses an optional thing, and leave the knife recipes the way they were? At this rate, it'll likely mean I'll have built a BC assembly table and use that to make the damnable chips, assuming such a thing is even going to be allowed anymore...it might be too easy or bloody sensible.
The channels? What possible purpose could they serve outside additional complexity for the sake of complexity? This gives those of us who use modpacks one more fucking thing for which we need to keep track. That's alongside things like power networks, farming setups, ensuring proper chunk loading, resource levels, and even freaking more. No. No no no no NO! I, for one, do not want another pointlessly complicated mechanic when all I want is efficient god damned storage and base operation. Unless you use dense cables for everything, that is, in which case, you can use all 32 channels per controller side at your leisure.
All this crap is leading me toward not wanting to use this mod for automation. All it makes me want to use this bastard for is space-efficient storage. I'd say that I'd use it for auto-crafting, but as Algo himself has said, that's going to be after the first release. That, in and of itself, is a very, VERY poor decision. Auto-crafting is a critical component of the mod; some would likely go so far as to say that its half the mod's purpose. Why, oh why, is it not going to be included in the initial release? Because it'd push the release date back a bit? I, for one, would rather wait for the second purpose of this mod to be fulfilled then work with something that, again, has nearly half its functionality stripped away to meet some imaginary deadline.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I realize that this is going off an alpha version of the mod, and that things may very well change. It is my hope that Algo listens to the outcry of the fans of his most excellent mod and takes it to heart during development of the first official release. AE 2 has the potential to be a game-changer just like its predecessor was, but as it stands now, there's a tonne of bullcrap holding it back from being the masterwork it truly could be. I love Applied Energistics. There's a reason I abjectly refuse to play a pack without it: its just that damned good.
The above is the sole opinion of myself, and is not meant to be taken as a statement of fact. I really shouldn't have to say this, but people tend to get a tad whiny, ya know?
The channels? What possible purpose could they serve outside additional complexity for the sake of complexity? This gives those of us who use modpacks one more fucking thing for which we need to keep track. That's alongside things like power networks, farming setups, ensuring proper chunk loading, resource levels, and even freaking more. No. No no no no NO! I, for one, do not want another pointlessly complicated mechanic when all I want is efficient god damned storage and base operation. Unless you use dense cables for everything, that is, in which case, you can use all 32 channels per controller side at your leisure.
All this crap is leading me toward not wanting to use this mod for automation. All it makes me want to use this bastard for is space-efficient storage. I'd say that I'd use it for auto-crafting, but as Algo himself has said, that's going to be after the first release. That, in and of itself, is a very, VERY poor decision. Auto-crafting is a critical component of the mod; some would likely go so far as to say that its half the mod's purpose. Why, oh why, is it not going to be included in the initial release? Because it'd push the release date back a bit? I, for one, would rather wait for the second purpose of this mod to be fulfilled then work with something that, again, has nearly half its functionality stripped away to meet some imaginary deadline.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I realize that this is going off an alpha version of the mod, and that things may very well change. It is my hope that Algo listens to the outcry of the fans of his most excellent mod and takes it to heart during development of the first official release. AE 2 has the potential to be a game-changer just like its predecessor was, but as it stands now, there's a tonne of bullcrap holding it back from being the masterwork it truly could be. I love Applied Energistics. There's a reason I abjectly refuse to play a pack without it: its just that damned good.
The above is the sole opinion of myself, and is not meant to be taken as a statement of fact. I really shouldn't have to say this, but people tend to get a tad whiny, ya know?
I like everything, except meteors. It is far far far more versatile, but it isnt simple set-up and also you need to progress in the tiers. The thing i dont like in the meteors is the RnG, I think it should be modified a bit, like that you get a blank pattern or something and you can make it into whatever pattern you need. That way it may be way too strong, so like it should have like 128 or so uses( even that is alot).
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Here's the thing about meteors:
It's akin to Vanilla EnderChests when they first came out. Nice in SSP, Exceedingly useless in SMP. Say you're on a server with 2 people. As said before, if there are 4 presses, your chances go down by 25% each time. But if there is one other person on the server, you have a chance of not getting any. Would be annoying, huh? The solution would be to make the compasses navigate to a certain block, and only unlock the chest once that block is broken. But you still have hat chance problem. I, for one, agree with the person above in that you get blank patterns from meteors and craft them with certain materials to get a certain press.
It's akin to Vanilla EnderChests when they first came out. Nice in SSP, Exceedingly useless in SMP. Say you're on a server with 2 people. As said before, if there are 4 presses, your chances go down by 25% each time. But if there is one other person on the server, you have a chance of not getting any. Would be annoying, huh? The solution would be to make the compasses navigate to a certain block, and only unlock the chest once that block is broken. But you still have hat chance problem. I, for one, agree with the person above in that you get blank patterns from meteors and craft them with certain materials to get a certain press.
With new spotline by DW20 I must say I like all other changes so far multiparts are always nice. Having a redstone signal when blocks in network are lower or higher than certain levels is great. I can see warrning laps for key items to let players know to rerun quarry. Busses changes are great and I love them as well so apart of annoying meteor thing everything else is great so far. Interface storing items is great thing to have will make it easy to suply certain items like dynamos with all needed items etc if dynamos can pull out from it as I expect they can.
... All the good changes you mentioned except for multiparts were in AE1.
Btw, you were able to do teh same things with the interface and also the level emiters were there before
I think the early game nerfs are grounded. People are freaking for no reason (well, maybe for a reason, but only if that reason is "ermagherd, I have to work for my automations?").
It slows you down just enough so that you can feel progress instead of jumping straight into having "Baby's First AE Network" 10 minutes after you craft a survival gen as is the case with AE1 in 1.6.4
It slows you down just enough so that you can feel progress instead of jumping straight into having "Baby's First AE Network" 10 minutes after you craft a survival gen as is the case with AE1 in 1.6.4
Keep in mind, you can get duplicates. Besides, these have no durability. Most of these freak-outs are fairly unreasonable.
duplicates in ssp means you just curse the rng. duplicates in smp setting is of little concern to me, because it fosters community and brings people out of their hovels to say "hey bro, wanna trade patterns?"
Factions and anarchy servers.duplicates in ssp means you just curse the rng. duplicates in smp setting is of little concern to me, because it fosters community and brings people out of their hovels to say "hey bro, wanna trade patterns?"
not my problem. their choice for playing on a server with such a ruleset.
silver lining, though; everybody endures that hardship, or alliances are formed and resources/technology is shared. kinda like irl.
mod looks interesting from DW20s spotlights.
ill agree with whoever mentioned throwing the crystal seeds into a puddle sounds off.
even just tossing them in a vanilla cauldron filled with water makes more sense.
a specialized tank type machine is even better, i don't get the impression that that method is supposed to be early game, except for the fluix crystals, in which case a machine to do it is even better.
fluix crystal machine should be fairly simple, crystal grower not so much.
channels concept is interesting as well.
use the controller as a central hub, dense cable as a bus line, and standard cable branching off to particular groups of operations.
tiered cable crafting doesn't look bad, aside from the dense, you can just use the basic, uncovered cables for most things, and one or two smart cables as indicators and reminders that a branch is full.
and do the controller blocks HAVE to be together, or can i just have multiple ones on the same network, which would work a lot better in placing those hubs more optimally
ill agree with whoever mentioned throwing the crystal seeds into a puddle sounds off.
even just tossing them in a vanilla cauldron filled with water makes more sense.
a specialized tank type machine is even better, i don't get the impression that that method is supposed to be early game, except for the fluix crystals, in which case a machine to do it is even better.
fluix crystal machine should be fairly simple, crystal grower not so much.
channels concept is interesting as well.
use the controller as a central hub, dense cable as a bus line, and standard cable branching off to particular groups of operations.
tiered cable crafting doesn't look bad, aside from the dense, you can just use the basic, uncovered cables for most things, and one or two smart cables as indicators and reminders that a branch is full.
and do the controller blocks HAVE to be together, or can i just have multiple ones on the same network, which would work a lot better in placing those hubs more optimally
Wrong.You will find the presses long before you can make an Ender Quarry. Like way long before you can make one.
Drops from the chest in the middle of the meteor are RANDOM. You've got NFC if you are even going to GET one or not. Then, since it's almost a guarantee that you will NOT, in fact, have all four patterns out of the same chest, you now need to find a NEW Meteor. However, your compass is going to continue pointing to the one you just plundered until you get closer to another one than you are to your current one. So hundreds of blocks later, just to find a meteor, which has zero promises that it'll have anything different.
Most. Frustrating. Mechanic. Ever. We're talking classic TC research issues or bee breeding (without Extra Bees or Gendustry to help) here. Yes, you can eventually get them all. The problem here is 'eventually'. It takes way more time and effort than you are implying. RNG is a very bad means of issuing mandatory items.
I for one, have to agree with the people complaining about the RNG with the printers and circuit boards. I think that AE is a beautiful and well executed mod, (besides a tad bit OP, but that's really everyone's own opinion) and I was really looking forwards to AE 2. When I saw that everything got a bit more complicated and complex as well as expensive, I appreciated it from my standpoint that the mod was a bit OP. I mean, AE system within your first day of a new world is a bit OP. Also essentially all your storage in one block. But when I saw that there was RNG involved in AE 2 I was left speechless. Everything in AE is logical. It's called Applied Energistics. There's supposed to be some science to the stuff. I mean, matter and energy and logistics and stuff make the whole mod sound "sciency." So of course I was shocked when I heard meteors and RNG was added. Meteors are more "sci-fi" and out of it for me, and don't fit into the logicalness of the mod.
meteors and other space objects are theorized to be the major source of what we consider "rare" materials here on earth. the chest buried in the meteor aside, how is it not logical?
as far as the RNG is concerned, I really do think it's for the best. AE is that powerful.
Problem is with any other mod if you need materials you run quarry and you have automated a way to get it with this mod you can't do that. The chest aren't even that bad but meteor is huge. If it is under your base and are well established that is wasted material that rep;aced all the other ores and will just annoy people.
There are better ways of delaying players from using a mod to early than stupid going out there and searching for it.
Now imagine you joined new server 3 weeks after everyone started server is big and there are rules about generating to many new chunks. How are you going to get this presses as it is safe to assume most of meteor in generated chunks were dug out?
Even on single player finding one meteor may be fun but doing it minimum of 4 times and on average about 7 taking duplicates into account is just pure boring. If mod author really wants meteors I think each meteor should have chest with all 4 presses. Or make presses craftable from other presses after few are found on server you can put them in workshop and people can craft their own. You still keep the part about going and exploring but you don't stretch it in time for long enough to get boring.
Problem is that not everything that is logical is playable. It is a game and it requires making changes that keep the game fun to play not imitation of real life. If I wanted to play real life I would just go outside but I am playing a game to have some fun and I suspend the logical thinking while playing it.
There are better ways of delaying players from using a mod to early than stupid going out there and searching for it.
Now imagine you joined new server 3 weeks after everyone started server is big and there are rules about generating to many new chunks. How are you going to get this presses as it is safe to assume most of meteor in generated chunks were dug out?
Even on single player finding one meteor may be fun but doing it minimum of 4 times and on average about 7 taking duplicates into account is just pure boring. If mod author really wants meteors I think each meteor should have chest with all 4 presses. Or make presses craftable from other presses after few are found on server you can put them in workshop and people can craft their own. You still keep the part about going and exploring but you don't stretch it in time for long enough to get boring.
Problem is that not everything that is logical is playable. It is a game and it requires making changes that keep the game fun to play not imitation of real life. If I wanted to play real life I would just go outside but I am playing a game to have some fun and I suspend the logical thinking while playing it.
I have watched both Dire spotlights now, and in spite of the warnings found here in this thread, I think it is shaping up to be a fantastic mod, better than its predecessor I hope. These are the things that stand out for me:
I regret using a bullet point format a bit now because I want to write too much.
You could argue that the channels mechanic introduces yet another annoying minigame to modded minecraft. I accept that it is possible that a minigame can be tedious and distracting, but the channel system has the potential to add a lot of complexity and replayability to the AE which I think is lacking in AE1. 8 channels also looks like it will be more than enough if all you want is some huge compact storage. The only major change as far as I see it is that AE based automation is not as spammable. I can only see this as a good thing. AE works well with other automation mods, and is kinda suboptimal at automation itself. Import busses have got to be one of the most overused and overrated blocks in all of modded minecraft. I hope that in addition to encouraging more interesting ME networks, the channel system will also encourage more interesting combinations between AE and other automation mods. I wonder if logistics pipes will still have compatibility?
Finally, I want to make a comment about the controllers. The new animated texture is really nice and adds to the "alien technology" theme Algo seems to be going for. It looks like a huge pulsing alien brain. The animation is very fast though and a bit dazzling. I wonder if it would be possible to slow it down to maybe a 2 second delay between colour shift. It is pretty though, a huge aesthetic improvement over AE1.
- The multipart lamps that fit on cables. These are absolutely perfect for the Princess Bubblegum science lab I want to build, and are in general some of the nicest lamps I have seen in the game so far. Furthermore, I think that they are an excellent implementation of lights which need power. Lamps that emit light in perpetuity are of course a fact of minecraft life, but they can be a bit jarring, especially if you are going for "realism". Even though I rarely build large AE networks, I can see how ME cables could go throughout your base more extensively than EU/MJ/RF cables which are focused where your machines are. This will probably be the biggest thing motivating me to build big AE systems at least when I start playing with the mod. Tl:dr you can tell how awesome these lamps are, and how excited I am, because I needed a tl:dr for a damn lamp!
- Multiblock controllers/channels: The channel system and the multiform controllers, and the improvements to subnetworks deliver a mighty hammer blow to one of the bigger criticisms of AE1 (that I have at least). ME networks in AE1 all look the same +/-10%. Yes they offer a hell of a lot of flexibility and mod compatibility but to me the difference between ME networks can be reduced simply to scale. For something so powerful, it feels to me a little underwhelming to build which is why I said in an earlier post that ME networks are a great thing to have but aren't as fun to build. The channel requirement looks to make AE networks harder to build, but I think this will make it way more interesting both to build your own ME networks and to see other people's.
I regret using a bullet point format a bit now because I want to write too much.
You could argue that the channels mechanic introduces yet another annoying minigame to modded minecraft. I accept that it is possible that a minigame can be tedious and distracting, but the channel system has the potential to add a lot of complexity and replayability to the AE which I think is lacking in AE1. 8 channels also looks like it will be more than enough if all you want is some huge compact storage. The only major change as far as I see it is that AE based automation is not as spammable. I can only see this as a good thing. AE works well with other automation mods, and is kinda suboptimal at automation itself. Import busses have got to be one of the most overused and overrated blocks in all of modded minecraft. I hope that in addition to encouraging more interesting ME networks, the channel system will also encourage more interesting combinations between AE and other automation mods. I wonder if logistics pipes will still have compatibility?
Finally, I want to make a comment about the controllers. The new animated texture is really nice and adds to the "alien technology" theme Algo seems to be going for. It looks like a huge pulsing alien brain. The animation is very fast though and a bit dazzling. I wonder if it would be possible to slow it down to maybe a 2 second delay between colour shift. It is pretty though, a huge aesthetic improvement over AE1.