[AE] 16k vs. 64k Storage

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Zerro

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Greetings,

I always notice Direwolf is using the 16k storage disks instead of the 64k storage. Is there a reason behind this? Are 4x 16k storage cells more cost efficient compared to the 64k?
 

Runo

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if you're voiding or using a deep storage unit on the bulk digging products like cobble and dirt, its more cost effective to use 16k drives. each drive only holds 63 unique item types, the size specifies the volume of storage. types are more important than volume, and for volume you can storage bus inthe DSUs for a very tiny cost by comparison.
 
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Larroke

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Mathematically...

A Single 64K cell uses 3 16k storage chips (the core of a 16k cell) plus a diamond processor (and a handful of insignificants) so it uses significantly less materials, but as noted above... 4 16K cells store 4x as many types of items.

When building your network, its likely best to start with 4k & 16k cells (for items you don't plan to stockpile at all don't even bother with larger cells) up to the point where you have the storage for all your item TYPES, and then upgrade only after you need a third 16k cell only to store a single item. IE: If you fill up 2 16k cells with just diamonds, then its better to use those two cells (making a third core) to make a 64k cell then to add another 16k cell the drive.
 
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gusmahler

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64k is pretty useless unless you're stockpiling common stuff like cobble. But even then: 1) there's no need to stockpile common items; 2) it's much more cost efficient to put those materials in barrels and attach a storage bus to them.
 

PeggleFrank

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Mind I ask, since 16k is more efficient than 64k because of the max item types allowed, shouldn't we all 64 1k storage cells since that would give us the same bytes but with tons of item types available?

Or would that cost too much to make the disk drives? Or, maybe it's just more cost efficient to make 4k over 1k, and 16k over 4k.
 

gusmahler

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1k doesn't really store nearly enough. Personally, I use 16k for quarries. When they get full of item types, they're usually at about 10k of the 16k, so way too much for even 4k.

The hard part about AE is getting started because you're short on quartz. Once you get a few quarries running, you're swimming in quartz and can make a bunch of 16k cells.

1k might be enough if you preformat it to accept only materials that you know you won't get a lot of (like iridium or chrome or tools, because they don't stack).
 

PeggleFrank

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1k doesn't really store nearly enough. Personally, I use 16k for quarries. When they get full of item types, they're usually at about 10k of the 16k, so way too much for even 4k.

The hard part about AE is getting started because you're short on quartz. Once you get a few quarries running, you're swimming in quartz and can make a bunch of 16k cells.

1k might be enough if you preformat it to accept only materials that you know you won't get a lot of (like iridium or chrome or tools, because they don't stack).
I mean if you got 64 1k storage cells to provide the same storage capacity as 16 4k storage cells but with more item types available. Or 16 4k storage cells rather than 4 16k storage cells.
 

egor66

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one 16k gives best results I beleave for the size, cost & the number of items it can hold, put it this way if for your first unit you make a 64k, you cant fill it really because it can only hold 64 types of items, far better use of the mats would be three 16k units that way you can store 192 types of items.
 

Greyed

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One thing to remember is that when you make a lower tier storage cell you're not, in any way, wasting materials. When I am starting out with AE I start off with 1k cells. Yes, 1k. When I need to reduce my 1k cells and upgrade to 4k cells I pull the 1k out, use an IO Port to dump the items into the network, put the 1k cell in my hand and crouch-right click. Tadaaaa, the 1k cell is now in your inventory and an empty casing in your hand! Now make 2 more 1k cells, slap them into a 4k, take the 4k, combine it with the empty casing, and you now have a 4k cell with no loss of mats!

It is more efficient to start with multiple small cells and expand as needed, formatting cells to optimize storage, than it is to just throw tons of unneeded space at the network.
 

gusmahler

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i disagree. 1K isn't nearly big enough to start with. The only thing we put in AE when we first built it was ingots, and it was easily 3k worth. And that was just 2 days worth of turtle quarrying. If pressed for space, you can start with 4k and combine into 16k later.
 

Dkittrell

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I Agree to start with 16K and stay there but in the end its your choice . when your starting off you most likely wont be having an ae system anyway because you need a good constant power source . Once you get that you'll usually have plenty of quartz to make a 16 cell . I personally started on a new server a little over a week ago , the first thing I did was get a turtle going, now I have 4 going at once doing a ~20x20 hole each and already have 6 k in just valuables( ingots , diamond etc) . As people have mentioned tho it doesn't make a lot of sense to go the 64 route , if it increased your item limit that would change things
 

gattsuru

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Mind I ask, since 16k is more efficient than 64k because of the max item types allowed, shouldn't we all 64 1k storage cells since that would give us the same bytes but with tons of item types available?

Or would that cost too much to make the disk drives? Or, maybe it's just more cost efficient to make 4k over 1k, and 16k over 4k.
The larger drives are more quartz-efficient for number of items stacked (a 64k drive can hold 64 times the number of stacks as a 1k drive, at only 27 times the quartz cost, although consuming some diamond), but less efficient for types of items held (a 64k drive has the same 63-type limit as a 1k drive). Especially in early play, where you're likely to have a lot of item types but not much of those items, smaller disks make more sense -- until you have four stacks of a useful material, the difference between a 64k drive and a 1k drive is entirely academic.

In the later game, larger disks make more sense. It takes just over 8128 of a single item type to fill a 1k storage disks, and in practice it'll clog somewhere around 3000-5000 items if hooked up to a Quarry.

((That said, the diamonds necessary to upgrade from 4k to 16k drives can be cost-prohibitive, especially given the low cost of storage bus + factorization barrels, or simply adding a second ME Drive to a network.))
 

Zerro

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Mathematically...

A Single 64K cell uses 3 16k storage chips (the core of a 16k cell) plus a diamond processor (and a handful of insignificants) so it uses significantly less materials, but as noted above... 4 16K cells store 4x as many types of items.
I never thought about it that way. Prior to my original post, I had already made a couple of the 64k storage. I nearly filled up the ores,gems,dust unit. Probably because of the Fortuned redstone, nikolite, and coal.

I preformatted my 64ks to fill up all 63 slots and I had a 1k for temp storage while I was still setting up my network. I now have like 3x extra 64k for misc storage. I wish now that I had started with the 16k storage cells.

I also decided to make some 4k storage just for cobble, dirt, gravel, flint, and anything else that I might be over producing (like bees wax). I'm planning to set them to Priority 1 and then have the misc Disk Drive set to Priority 3 and then have an incinerator set to 2 (Like Direwolf did) just to void any extra once those cells are filled because I doubt I need more than 4k of each of those.

Is it possible to upgrade a storage drive or once it's crafted, you're stuck at that capacity?
 

Larroke

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Is it possible to upgrade a storage drive or once it's crafted, you're stuck at that capacity?

Yes, if you (left or right click, experiment or wiki) sneak click the storage cell while holding it, will destroy the housing (the glass/redstone/glowstone) but give you the storage chip back. So you can take 3 16K storage chips and make a 64 with just a few odds/ends and a diamond processor, same with 1k->4k, and 4k->16K (with different processors).

And since a ME drive costs about the same as a 4k cell its advantageous to keep it cheap and upgrade as needed. Gets all your items into the network faster then trying to get 64K chips all over the place. This is in reality only relevant if you preformat to keep the system defragmented properly and if you have the power, I don't know if different cells require more/less power once they're in the drives.

Cobble/dirt/gravel/marble and the mass storage items I wouldn't even bother with a cell for them.. I put them into a Extradimensional barrel and storage bus that sucker at the same priority as the main system and then have a secondary that dumps into a void chest (or the new ME disposal block) after they fill up.

I've always wondered how they'd handle bees, do each princess / drone grouping count as a different type and damage value items such as tools? I have yet to expand the system to encapsulate my extensive bee operation.[DOUBLEPOST=1371085427][/DOUBLEPOST]
Mind I ask, since 16k is more efficient than 64k because of the max item types allowed, shouldn't we all 64 1k storage cells since that would give us the same bytes but with tons of item types available?

Or would that cost too much to make the disk drives? Or, maybe it's just more cost efficient to make 4k over 1k, and 16k over 4k.

The drive itself costs about as much as a 4K processor, and each drive will require more power from the system so there is a balancing that goes on in getting it all worked out.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Personally, I start off with 4k disks myself. It's a good balance of storage capacity versus expense when you haven't gotten something like a quarry going yet. Something to handle all your burgeoning crap but isn't going to break your bank. Get yourself started.

Actually, I tend to start off with a couple of 4k disks and a 1k disk. The two 4k disks I pre-format. One is my Precious Resources (gems, ingots, dusts, etc...), the other is for plant resources (so dealing with the outputs from my Harvesters and such). The 1k disk is for 'random crap that I want to store small quantities of'. Things like your quartz cutting knife which you will want in your Crafting Terminal but don't necessarily want or need to carry around. Sure, I could just keep a chest around, but oddly enough a 1k disk is actually a cheaper option, and I've got ten slots in my disk drive, so it's not like I'm going to run out of slots any time soon.

Eventually, I build a 16k module for my ores and plant stuffs, and do the upgrade shuffle. But 4k is enough to clean up all the clutter around my base.
 
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Greyed

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i disagree. 1K isn't nearly big enough to start with. The only thing we put in AE when we first built it was ingots, and it was easily 3k worth. And that was just 2 days worth of turtle quarrying. If pressed for space, you can start with 4k and combine into 16k later.
When you got started. I generally start with AE well before I have a 4th double chest. I have done 0 quarrrying. I have AE done before the quarrying since you need storage before you can effectively quarry.

When your starting off you most likely wont be having an ae system anyway because you need a good constant power source . Once you get that you'll usually have plenty of quartz to make a 16 cell
People keep saying this as if it is a truism. But what they really mean is "I think you need a robust power system to be able to utilize any portion of AE", something that is patently false. I have now done 3 worlds with AE and in every case I had an auto-pulverize/smelting line up and running on less than 4k of storage. Normally 2-3 1ks. The first one was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The second was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The third was on 4 TE Steam engines because this time I am trying to avoid boilers.

You do not need stacks and stacks of stuff to start with AE. You do not need tons of power to start with AE. In my current world all of my inventory, all of it, fits in 4 1k modules.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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When you got started. I generally start with AE well before I have a 4th double chest. I have done 0 quarrrying. I have AE done before the quarrying since you need storage before you can effectively quarry.
Ditto.

People keep saying this as if it is a truism. But what they really mean is "I think you need a robust power system to be able to utilize any portion of AE", something that is patently false. I have now done 3 worlds with AE and in every case I had an auto-pulverize/smelting line up and running on less than 4k of storage. Normally 2-3 1ks. The first one was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The second was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The third was on 4 TE Steam engines because this time I am trying to avoid boilers.

You do not need stacks and stacks of stuff to start with AE. You do not need tons of power to start with AE. In my current world all of my inventory, all of it, fits in 4 1k modules.
Mmm... I generally wait until I am off of Coal-based Power Supply before playing with AE. Be it Lava or Biofuel or (in my super seekrit speshul test instance) Mekanism. I want a reliable power source that isn't going to go dark on me if I fail to refuel it, and refueling coal-based power automatically is more hassle than I wish to deal with in the early game. Because if the lights go dark, you lose access to all your stuff, and that's no fun.

However, I do make sure it is set up and robust before any sort of quarry system is set up.
 
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Dkittrell

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When you got started. I generally start with AE well before I have a 4th double chest. I have done 0 quarrrying. I have AE done before the quarrying since you need storage before you can effectively quarry.



People keep saying this as if it is a truism. But what they really mean is "I think you need a robust power system to be able to utilize any portion of AE", something that is patently false. I have now done 3 worlds with AE and in every case I had an auto-pulverize/smelting line up and running on less than 4k storage. Normally 2-3 1ks. The first one was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The second was on 4 Hobbyist engines. The third was on 4 TE Steam engines because this time I am trying to avoid boilers.

You do not need stacks and stacks of stuff to start with AE. You do not need tons of power to start with AE. In my current world all of my inventory, all of it, fits in 4 1k modules.
Hmm reread my post, never said you need a robust power source I said you need a consistent power source , huge difference . A small system will only pull a few eu or mj but if you don't have a consistent power source you won't have access to your items in the system . As the guy above me said I prefer to get into ae when I get off coal power
 

Greyed

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Hmm reread my post, never said you need a robust power source I said you need a consistent power source , huge difference . A small system will only pull a few eu or mj but if you don't have a consistent power source you won't have access to your items in the system.
I read "consistent" as "robust" because most people conflate the two to the extreme. Want to know my "consistent" power source? Look, a RECell! -.-

As the guy above me said I prefer to get into ae when I get off coal power
Great, that's you. But you, and others, are generalizing that to everyone. Here's what you wrote:

when your starting off you most likely wont be having an ae system anyway because you need a good constant power source .
What you define as "a good constant power source" and what is actually a good constant power source are two, wildly different things. Your preference is after the coal stage. Nevermind that coal is one of the easiest, earliest methods of providing constant power. Nevermind that a small number of coal powered engines along with a single RECell can provide constant power without requiring the engines to run all the time. And if by chance you let the RECell run out and don't have access to your inventory, punch a tree! Wood words quite well in engines, too. Or keep a normal chest of fuel near the engines for emergencies.

But seriously, two people responded. One was talking about AE after 2 days of turtle quarrying and the other is talking about constant power supply as if that isn't the first rung of the ladder after a double chest! Heck, I have a constant power supply before AE only because in 1.5 we need Nether Quartz and I generally have my standard basic 2-engine pulverizer/powered furnace setup done long before my first nether portal.
 

Greyed

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I want a reliable power source that isn't going to go dark on me if I fail to refuel it, and refueling coal-based power automatically is more hassle than I wish to deal with in the early game. Because if the lights go dark, you lose access to all your stuff, and that's no fun.
Granted. However I find it more annoying to have to manually sort and process stuff than it is to drop coal into my engines once every so often. 3-4MJ/t, especially if you have a RECell to store the excess and cover the spikes when you're actually processing, is more than enough to get into AE far enough to automate ore processing and storage.