Advice on setting up a mod pack

[Golrith]

You should ask Shneeky. He might just have what you want already. This modlist is very close to ShneekyCraft.

Just had a look. At it's core it is, but I guess that's pretty common for us tech mod users.

Going for a bit more tech, and a lot more world gen. Beautiful landscapes are good for the soul, and for destroying with tech/magic


You have Underground Biomes in RR don't you? Any problems with generation? It might be just too much for my computer.

 

[Bellaabzug21]

I think you should make it just more than tech as that's what most modpacks are. In my modpack i'm trying to make everyone happy by adding a little bit of everything (even if it is a bit useless).

 

[Aidan]

Didn't mean to insult your mod by saying it's lacking, by the way. Just saying that it doesn't reach up to IC2's level.

Thank you for this. I have no current plans for things like electric armor or defense systems, as there are already mods that handle this particularly very well. Expect to see redstone logic in the next major update.

 

[gattsuru]

I trust you, but I'm confused, as I'm getting worldgen when the block IDs are over 256. Even looking at configs in the existing FTB pack have worldgen IDs over 256, and all works fine.

Current version Forge can handle Block IDs as high as 4095, but the Minecraft worldgen code still runs off a 256-length array. Now, there are some clever things you can do to work around this -- ExtraBiomes, for example, has a lot of different tree blocks that it builds with an entirely different process than normal worldgen -- but it's a rule and unlikely to change in without major alterations to the code.

 

[KirinDave]

If you look at the list of features that IC2 has, Mekanism doesn't have much in ways of content compared to IC2.

I really, really, really want to object to this. What mekansim lacks is documentation of content. But it has a ton of good content. Specialized tools, alloys, a variety of machines all with reconfigurable interface, golem-like robots and IC2-safe analogues and teleportation. It absolutely does not provide quite so many tools, but it also exists in an ecosystem. In terms of actual machine builds, it's way better off than IC2.

In terms of power generation, it has a good design and IC2's design is fundamentally flawed. It lacks reactors, but it exists in an ecosystem where there is a mod dedicated just to reactors and those reactors are generally accepted to be more fun and approachable by the MC playerbase than the IC2 system, which is fiddly punishing. MFFS3, for all the faults of its evolved license issues, exists and is pretty darn good as well. IC2 hails from an era of Big Box mods. Mekanism, it seems, is a more modern mod that does a few core things well and interacts with the mod ecosystem.

Thank you for this. I have no current plans for things like electric armor or defense systems, as there are already mods that handle this particularly very well. Expect to see redstone logic in the next major update.

Well you know, I bet if you and mDiyo talked you could collaborate. He recently said he'd accept a pull request with Mekanism support if it was offered so long as it works and minimizes his dependency on the UE api. For me this would be a lot of work (but I or someone in RR will do it soon if no one else wants to take the torch) but I bet for you it's the matter of an afternoon or three.

He doesn't much like how often the Universal Electricity API changes (and it does change often), but it still seems like a big win for us as players. Not only could you give him UE and MJ support via an energy tablet modifier, but I bet your refined obsidian and glowstone and osmium materials could be really cool in TiC tools (glowstone could be a low durability, high hardness tool tat as a binding offers speed 1, osmium could be a nice steel substitute with a diff modifier, and refined obisidan could be another high-tier metal perhaps with exceptional handle qualities).

TConstruct is an open inclusion mod, so it'd be really easy to start bringing it into UE modpacks without IC2 installed (which is what we're hoping we can get in Resonant Rise). And unlike the two coders in RR, you have artists working with you to actually provide the art assets mDiyo would need.

 

[PeggleFrank]

I really, really, really want to object to this. What mekansim lacks is documentation of content. But it has a ton of good content. Specialized tools, alloys, a variety of machines all with reconfigurable interface, golem-like robots and IC2-safe analogues and teleportation. It absolutely does not provide quite so many tools, but it also exists in an ecosystem. In terms of actual machine builds, it's way better off than IC2.

In terms of power generation, it has a good design and IC2's design is fundamentally flawed. It lacks reactors, but it exists in an ecosystem where there is a mod dedicated just to reactors and those reactors are generally accepted to be more fun and approachable by the MC playerbase than the IC2 system, which is fiddly punishing. MFFS3, for all the faults of its evolved license issues, exists and is pretty darn good as well. IC2 hails from an era of Big Box mods. Mekanism, it seems, is a more modern mod that does a few core things well and interacts with the mod ecosystem.

I don't remember that much stuff from the DW20 spotlight.

I may have to look into it again on my own. I thought it just added wires, power generation, and some energy cubes.

 

[KirinDave]

I don't remember that much stuff from the DW20 spotlight.

I may have to look into it again on my own. I thought it just added wires, power generation, and some energy cubes.

It has grown a lot since the spotlight.

 

[RedBoss]

I don't remember that much stuff from the DW20 spotlight.

I may have to look into it again on my own. I thought it just added wires, power generation, and some energy cubes.

I've come to refer to his spotlights as highlights more than anything.

 

[Aidan]

I don't remember that much stuff from the DW20 spotlight.
I may have to look into it again on my own. I thought it just added wires, power generation, and some energy cubes.

Oh! You made your assumptions off of the spotlight. That must have been misleading, as that was released just as I picked up the pace and began adding new content. Play around with Mekanism for a bit with some of my later builds, there's lots of new stuff to use. I'm planning on releasing my own spotlight soon to cover everything Mekanism brings to the table.

I really, really, really want to object to this. What mekansim lacks is documentation of content. But it has a ton of good content. Specialized tools, alloys, a variety of machines all with reconfigurable interface, golem-like robots and IC2-safe analogues and teleportation. It absolutely does not provide quite so many tools, but it also exists in an ecosystem. In terms of actual machine builds, it's way better off than IC2.

KirinDave, thanks a bunch for your enthusiasm, I'm glad you appreciate Mekanism's content! As for mDiyo, I have chatted with him a bit, and I would love to collaborate with him on some content, as well as add base Mekanism support.


Now, there are a few things I want to clear up. I'm just now realizing what a great resource this forum is, as it discusses each individual mod as a unique, important element of a complete, enjoyable modded-Minecraft experience.

In regards to Universal Electricity:
UE is rapidly changing and is still gaining in popularity. It honestly has kind of turned into a modpack in of it's own, and because of this many people think of mods like Atomic Science, ICBM, and Mekanism as "UE mods." As some people may know, Mekanism was originally "Obsidian Ingots," which was created by me in November of 2011. It has been an ongoing project with several development peaks. I joined UE right when it was beginning due to the exciting prospect of a universal electricity framework that all mods worked with right when I began adding the machines that are included in Mekanism today. As you all most likely know, we have not seen many major mods update to use the API, which brings me to my next statement on the actual idea of the framework. UE is NOT a mod, at the moment it is simply an API that developers can integrate in order to easily adapt a realistic electric experience for their users. Mekanism, also, is not a "UE mod," it is simply a mod that includes the UE API, just like Railcraft does. Forestry isn't considered an "IC2 mod" because it implements the IC2 API, is it? If you go through my repository, you'll notice that the UE API is only one of many that I have spent my time incorporating.

In regards to Mekanism (and copying):
My goal for Mekanism is not to dominate and eliminate IC2, BuildCraft, RedPower or Thermal Expansion, but more to have a substitute that not only matches the content of these mods, but actually goes above and beyond in aesthetics, functionality, and extensiveness. Because of how well the mods I mentioned are designed, I have incorporated complete support in order for Mekanism to blend in well when the user has them installed. Now, copying. I have actually been confronted by several users and developers about me "copying" other mods' content, and this is rather unsettling for me. I'd like to put out for the record that all my code is original, and I do not entirely copy any content from other mods. Let's put out my Dynamic Tanks, for example. My Dynamic Tanks are not in any way identical to Railcraft's Iron Tanks or ChickenBones' Multi-Tanks, they actually combine the two in a rather nice way if I may say so myself. Unlike the two others, Dynamic Tanks actually have a max size of 18x18x18. While they ARE restricted to certain blocks like Iron Tanks, they can be placed into any cuboid shape, similar to Multi-Tanks. This is in no way copying from what I can see, correct me if I am wrong.

Mekanism is a big project, and I really hope for it to continue expanding until the Minecraft community disperses. While I am a part of the project I hope to listen to the community as much as I can, unlike other major mods in the market today. Because of this I have made Mekanism completely open-source under the MIT license, and I encourage aspiring modders to look through my code on GitHub, learn from it, and even use it in their own mods.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me over IRC, I'm idle on plenty of channels on EsperNet.

-aidancbrady

 

[KirinDave]

In regards to Universal Electricity:
UE is rapidly changing and is still gaining in popularity. It honestly has kind of turned into a modpack in of it's own, and because of this many people think of mods like Atomic Science, ICBM, and Mekanism as "UE mods." As some people may know, Mekanism was originally "Obsidian Ingots," which was created by me in November of 2011. It has been an ongoing project with several development peaks. I joined UE right when it was beginning due to the exciting prospect of a universal electricity framework that all mods worked with right when I began adding the machines that are included in Mekanism today. As you all most likely know, we have not seen many major mods update to use the API, which brings me to my next statement on the actual idea of the framework. UE is NOT a mod, at the moment it is simply an API that developers can integrate in order to easily adapt a realistic electric experience for their users. Mekanism, also, is not a "UE mod," it is simply a mod that includes the UE API, just like Railcraft does. Forestry isn't considered an "IC2 mod" because it implements the IC2 API, is it? If you go through my repository, you'll notice that the UE API is only one of many that I have spent my time incorporating.

I don't mean to drive the conversation too far afield, but I'm curious about something related to your power system and we don't get to talk conversationally often.

A piece of conventional wisdom is that "Mekanism's Universal Cable is so slow it kills servers." Everyone is afraid to use it. I know it can introduce graphical lag, and its believable that it is not as optimzied as Thermal Expansions conduit (even though it could be), but as the RR testers start to use it, it's basically not noticeable anymore than big IC2 cable networks are. I'm curious if you consider it "too slow" right now, and if you've seen people using thousands of pieces of cable in diverse modpacks.

Because the cable is interesting and useful. It's so good it's the first time I've wondered about the balance of cable (the dynamic voltage control for IC2 in particular). But what kind performance do you expect to see and do you consider it a problem to solve?

 

[natnif36]

I definately agree with several points made here.

1. Mekanism Adds a lot of stuff, and a lot of useful stuff as well.
2. Mekanism has poor documentation available on it. Lots of video content, but watching a LP with UE is not what I want when I am wondering "dafuq does a robit do?" Or "Are factories efficient energy wise?" Or "How do I get a reliable source of flint?" Etc. Without in-game testing (extensively) it's hard to know what most things DO or how to use them. And spending an hour flicking through NEI I would honestly be fine with if I could do it on my IPod, but that requires precious Time available on my laptop, so I tend to stick with the little I know.
3. UE has poor documentation.
4. ICBM has amazing documentation - odd considering how's its the least useful mod (in a survival play) in UE. Except perhaps for fluid Mechanics. It's rather obselete AFAIK - it adds pipes and an electric pump. - it has other things? How would I know, there's no documentation.
Wait - this mod destroys things? Lets tell people all about it then.
5. Being able to add the electric modifyer without requiring IC2 would be amazing. Currently one can wear a powersuit for it, but it still needs IC2 materials to apply.

6. Wait - chickenbones adds multiblock tanks? Are they different from Soaryn's Xycraft tanks? I know he had ender tanks, but multiblocks also? Or did did he write the Xycraft ones?

7. This is a question - why can the enrichment change r do everything the crusher can do? There seems to be only point making one or the other, and whichever one is made the other is obselete - is there a difference?

 

[Aidan]

I don't mean to drive the conversation too far afield, but I'm curious about something related to your power system and we don't get to talk conversationally often.

A piece of conventional wisdom is that "Mekanism's Universal Cable is so slow it kills servers." Everyone is afraid to use it. I know it can introduce graphical lag, and its believable that it is not as optimzied as Thermal Expansions conduit (even though it could be), but as the RR testers start to use it, it's basically not noticeable anymore than big IC2 cable networks are. I'm curious if you consider it "too slow" right now, and if you've seen people using thousands of pieces of cable in diverse modpacks.

Because the cable is interesting and useful. It's so good it's the first time I've wondered about the balance of cable (the dynamic voltage control for IC2 in particular). But what kind performance do you expect to see and do you consider it a problem to solve?

Good question! Universal Cable was just one of those possible ideas that came to me while I was brainstorming for something new to work on. It really turned out much better than I thought it would, and I wish for it to be a signature feature of Mekanism someday. The way the cables work is actually very confusing, especially the way it is shown on the client. Each transfer occurs instantly on the server-side ONLY, using a recursive algorithm that divides the given energy by the outputter up between all available acceptors in the network depending on how much energy they can receive. This makes it hard for there to be really any way for the client to know whether energy is being transferred or not without packets. I must have tried at least 6 different ways to minimize lag, and the best way was to send a tiny packet with just data on the outputter's location whenever energy is transmitted and the protocol is called. Because of this, server lag should be fairly minimal. As for client-based lag, this is something that has recently come into view. I have solved this today by using transparency instead of height in order to mark transfer rates, which is honestly more realistic. It has minimized lag according to my testers, which means my work with cable-based lag is done for now. Try out one of the new builds for yourself, tell me what you think.

 

[power crystals]

I trust you, but I'm confused, as I'm getting worldgen when the block IDs are over 256. Even looking at configs in the existing FTB pack have worldgen IDs over 256, and all works fine. Not trying to argue it, just trying to understand.

There's two kinds of worldgen. Stuff that happens after a chunk is generated (ores, trees, lakes) can be the full 12-bit ID range up until 4095. The first pass at creating a chunk however cannot be, due to how the extra ID bits are stored - mods like Biomes O Plenty must be 255 or less. Which one a mod is is often not obvious at first glance, but generally the ones with that restriction will tell you.

 

[Chocorate]

Mind if I ask you in what ways Mekanism is lacking in content? I am in the need of a new project to work on.

Why not an in-game manual, like the ones that Gregtech and MFR gives you when you start the game?

 

[Bellaabzug21]

Why not an in-game manual, like the ones that Gregtech and MFR gives you when you start the game?

Really all mods should add that, or at least the ones that are finished already. IC2 and BuildCraft aren't adding anything new, why don't they start?

 

[KirinDave]

Good question! Universal Cable was just one of those possible ideas that came to me while I was brainstorming for something new to work on. It really turned out much better than I thought it would, and I wish for it to be a signature feature of Mekanism someday. The way the cables work is actually very confusing, especially the way it is shown on the client. Each transfer occurs instantly on the server-side ONLY, using a recursive algorithm that divides the given energy by the outputter up between all available acceptors in the network depending on how much energy they can receive. This makes it hard for there to be really any way for the client to know whether energy is being transferred or not without packets. I must have tried at least 6 different ways to minimize lag, and the best way was to send a tiny packet with just data on the outputter's location whenever energy is transmitted and the protocol is called. Because of this, server lag should be fairly minimal. As for client-based lag, this is something that has recently come into view. I have solved this today by using transparency instead of height in order to mark transfer rates, which is honestly more realistic. It has minimized lag according to my testers, which means my work with cable-based lag is done for now. Try out one of the new builds for yourself, tell me what you think.

This is great news. I had a creeping suspicion that the argument is that "TE's cabling is highly optimized" and not "Mekanism's cabling is very slow." Although if it's literally recursive, I can see how that can create a lot of memory pressure, but unless you're gonna start using tick threading and then I guess adding LMAX Disruptor as a dependency to your mod is just pure showing off. Thanks for this explanation.

Also, Robit: I have them following me non-stop because they're cute. Fantastic idea, but I hope they become useful soon. By the time you can make a robit, its services are not very useful. It'd be really cool if we could actually build them out to contain our factories and or make them understand they should drop off their inventories. I could see bringing a robit with me as I mine, filling him up with ores, then teleporting him home where he empties his inventory into my ore processing system. Who needs an ender pouch if I have a teleporting helper robot?

 

[Golrith]

Oh! You made your assumptions off of the spotlight. That must have been misleading, as that was released just as I picked up the pace and began adding new content. Play around with Mekanism for a bit with some of my later builds, there's lots of new stuff to use. I'm planning on releasing my own spotlight soon to cover everything Mekanism brings to the table.

That would be good. Spotlights give me enough info to get started with a mod, then as I start exploring a mod, I can hit a wiki. I've seen a bit of what UE/Mek can offer in a couple of episodes of Lamberts LP, and the bumbling efforts of the Yogs in their Voltz series. As mentioned though, documentation is a bit lacking. I went to check out the wiki from the official site, and it's basically empty.
Wiki's don't really tell you how to get started, just how to craft and what a block can do, a spotlight shows how the mod all works together.

What I do love about the UE "mods" are the custom blocks, they are detailed enough to still look like minecraft style, but not too detailed.


Love the way this thread is going



Thanks for the clarification PowerCrystals. Makes a lot more sense. I can see now how Underground Biomes generates, the world is created out of normal rock, then it goes and replaces that rock with it's new rocks. Like RedPowers marble generation. That would also explain the extra lag at new chunk generation.

 

[Golrith]

Just found 2 mods (thanks to the suggest a mod topic) that I think would be really useful to replace Mystcraft and help keep the mod pack lighter for servers by limiting worlds.

First mod is http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1679684-forge-152-aroma1997s-mods/ which allows you to craft a portal to an overworld type clone that's mob-less and BC Oil-less, but has all standard word gen, and is constant day. Perfect for mining instead of destroying the overworld with automated mining.
Second is http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1676966-gregs-sg-craft-for-minecraft-151-152/ which adds Stargates. Perfect for quick travel, but not cheap to make.

 

[Hydra]

Really all mods should add that, or at least the ones that are finished already. IC2 and BuildCraft aren't adding anything new, why don't they start?

No, all mods should have a proper webpage. And if they have that, they can feel free to put in any kind of 'book' or whatever that I can just choose to toss away because I absolutely HATE in-game help books. They're horrible! The amount of screen space is tiny! And the fonts used are not as nice to read as a proper webpage. And with a webpage, I can just have it open on a seperate screen / my ipad whenever I need to look something up. And last but not least; these books tend to 'forget' the page they were at when you close them. So you can't just switch between your crafting table and the book because you have to go back and find the right page every time. A good example is thaumcraft; actually looking up the recipe every single dang time is incredibly annoying.

Please, mod authors: provide a proper page / wiki with info (Applied Energistics is a great example on how to do this) and only when you have that consider adding a book (and then stop considering it because it's not worth the time).

Webpages are better in every regard. And no, that's not an opinion.

 

[natnif36]

Railcraft has an amazing wiki.

Could look nicer, but very informative.