A magic mod with a power system ...

Discussion in 'Mod Discussion' started by keybounce, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    And again, it would destroy the balance that is within magic mods. At that point, it's less of "mod interaction" and more of "bypass certain features of mods".
    I plan on never touching a mod like this. I prefer mods to have their intended balance intact.
     
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  2. loboca

    loboca New Member

    And I'm pretty sure this same conversation took place 2-3 years ago when BC introduced the electrical engine, and of course talk about PowerConverters itself takes place to this day. "Why should you be able to bypass IC(2) progression with an electrical engine?!?111". It just happens to have already happened in the tech-mod ecosystem.

    Soon FTB will have watered down all the packs to just TE and TC4, and all the other mods will have faded away...
     
  3. Omegatron

    Omegatron Well-Known Member

    I think casilleroatr made the best point here. The energies used in tech mods are fairly similar to each other, most tech mods have similar ways of generating power and similar uses for power so you can make proper comparisons and ratios between them while the power equivalents in magic mods vary wildly in the way they are made and used.
     
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  4. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    The electrical engine (which is from Forestry, not BC, and converts to MJ from EU, not the other way around) cannot power an entire base though. It's great for a VERY small setup (and by that, I mean a machine or two on a dedicated power line) but it can, in no way, power an entire base, and it isn't meant to. It's meant for a small amount of interaction between mods. The Power Converters mod, however, can be used to run one mod's machines off another's power without any sort of limitation. This bypasses the requirement of setting up infrastructure in a mod, and allows the player to skip a significant portion of a mod.

    There's more mod pack groups out there than FTB. I highly doubt FTB will cause mods to "fade away" all by itself.
     
  5. loboca

    loboca New Member

    Well, Vis and Light essence work off of passive generation. Dark Essence and LP work off of self/mob health sacrifice. Neutral Essence and Arcane Infusion work off of sacrificing in game items/pools of water.

    So it looks like health is one common denominator between them. How many LP you get from a stab is dependent on ruins, etc. Tho TC4 doesn't really have anything health related, hmm.

    Tech mods also have passive (solar), consuming items/fluids: coal; lava; herba/food/mob essence for biofuel. Though tech doesn't really a self-sacrifice component.
     
  6. SatanicSanta

    SatanicSanta New Member

    That isn't what it is about. It's about the requirements to get it, not how it's made. For instance, Witchery energy requires Rowan Wood, and fumes to get the Altar, which creates power.

    Now let's run through what you need to get these three things (rowan sapling and 2 different types of fumes)

    Code:
    Altar
       Rowan Wood
          Rowan Sapling
             A huge amount of Mutandis
                Mandrake Roots
                   Mandrake farming
                      Hint of Rebirth
                         Witches Oven
                            A ton of Spruce Saplings
       Exhale of Horned One
          Witches Oven
             A ton of Oak Saplings
       Breath of the Goddess
          Witches Oven
             A ton of Birch Saplings
       Time invested in farming all 4 of these trees.
    
    Now, when I say a ton, I mean stacks and stacks and stacks.

    Now, since you used a Solar Panel as an example of passive power, let's go through what you need to get one as of 16 November 2013. I will be taking this info from http://wiki.feed-the-beast.com/Solar_Panel_(IndustrialCraft_2), so if it is wrong, whatever, point is still made.

    Code:
    Solar Panel
       Coal Dust
          Coal
             Macerator/Pulverizer/Rock Crusher/whatever
                Power
       Glass
          Sand
             Furnace
       Electric Circuits
          Copper Cable
             Copper
                Rubber
                   Rubber Trees
          Refined Iron
             Iron
                Furnace
          Redstone
       Generator
          RE battery
             Tin
             Redstone
             Copper Cable (see chart above)
          Furnace
          Machine Block
             Refined Iron
                Iron
    
    Now, this may seem more complicated than the Witchery one, but it actually isn't. You may have noticed the difference: time. Tech mods generally base their stuff on resources, while magic mods generally base their stuff on time investment and effort.
     
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  7. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    Alright, let's expanded on what @SatanicSanta posted above me, specifically this:
    Passive tech energy generation, via an IC2 solar panel. Now, let's compare this to Blood Magic's passive LP generation:

    To get to passive LP generation, we'll assume the Well of Suffering for this example, you need a T4 altar (~92 total Blank Slates), and the five required elemental inks for the ritual. Which means you need a Ritual of Binding and a diamond sword, which requires a T3 altar, which, in order to make, requires a significant time investment due to the regeneration speed of player health, as well as Nether access. Oh, and to get a T3 altar, you need a T2 altar, and a minimum of a Weak Blood Orb (assuming you use only the standard Blood Runes, which will greatly increase the time commitment involved). I've also greatly shortened this list, because the amount of stone is in the range of dozens of stacks, and because there are several blood orbs that are required in order to even contain the LP required to fund the Well of Suffering.

    Sure, it may seem like fewer steps, but the time involved in this is far more than what it takes to craft a solar panel. That solar panel, since the recipe has more than likely changed with IC2 Exp., should take under 2 minutes assuming you have millions of every possible resource in the game (Or nearly instant if it's programmed in a MAC or other autocrafter). Under the same conditions of several million of every resource, getting to passive LP generation will end up taking a minimum of about 2 hours due to the regeneration speed of the player. Oh, and I haven't even mentioned the fact that in order to take full advantage of the Well of Suffering, you need a mob spawner of some sort. Which is another time commitment to build and test to prevent accidental explosions and damage to the ritual or the altar setup. And you can't have it automatically created with an autocrafter.

    Again, magic mods are created with a different set of balance principles. As Santa said, it's often time and effort, unlike the resources of tech mods. Putting all magic mods on the same "energy system" (and yes, I am considering a "power converter" to be the same exact "energy system", because it essentially is), you eliminate the time and effort requirements of the mods, which throws everything out of balance.
     
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  8. Democretes

    Democretes New Member

    I have a feeling that Technomancy does not fair well with some of you.
     
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  9. trajing

    trajing New Member

    'Universal' energy systems fail because of some sort of added complexity mod authors want to introduce. Added complexity doesn't happen with tech mods as often as magic, because magic is not established in the real world, and leaves the devs free to follow their imagination. Thus a magic PowerConverters would fail even more miserably than a tech one.[DOUBLEPOST=1399339180][/DOUBLEPOST]
    You have ~6000000 RF + Auram + Victus * Risk + Essentia = Node. This is roughly Reika speed borers.
     
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  10. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    I will admit, there are aspects of potential updates I'm not fond of, but overall I quite like it. It requires a significant investment into TC4 and TE3 to be of much use, and doesn't bypass anything, it just makes things less annoying after a certain point (I mean really, who doesn't like coils and order lamps?).
     
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  11. Democretes

    Democretes New Member

    Good to know I'm heading in the right direction. Hopefully, future updates won't throw off the balance I'm aiming for. I know the fabricators that I'm making aren't quite as balanced out as the TC4 stuff is, but I'll try to keep it in line with the everything else.

    In all honesty, I literally could not think of a better way to make certain "fabricators" without just straight up putting in energy and outputting something else.
     
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