[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]

Pyure

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I would simplify it by removing all L/t numbers and just go straight to L/s as that is what is mostly used when dealing with liquids.
Steam optimal flow is making two unnecessary calculations (divide and multiply by 2, why?) also unnecessary parentheses of fuel values, i.e: 32 is better than (32) imo the optimal flow examples looks more confusing than it has to be.

Also the optimal flow formula is under the example header vs "(Flow is divided by 20 to get the rate in volume per tick instead of volume per second)" which is under the examples, should probably be in the same place or maybe put all the simplified formulas in the correct order above all the examples in one place? so you don't have to look for them all over (including efficiency calc)

So basicly: keep formulas clean of examples and examples clean of formulas, two separated sections? Might look good.
Thanks Tsuko, I'll have another look at that tomorrow.

About /t values: that's tricky because every mod ever calculates everything in per-tick values. I have no idea why GT5 suddenly abandoned the standard and went to /s for liquid throughput, but since it still calculates power in per-tick, and fuel and power go together, its sometimes necessary to pick a standard and roll with it.

The rest I kinda agree with to various degrees and I think we can clean it up.
 
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Tsuko

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Thanks Tsuko, I'll have another look at that tomorrow.

About /t values: that's tricky because every mod ever calculates everything in per-tick values. I have no idea why GT5 suddenly abandoned the standard and went to /s for liquid throughput, but since it still calculates power in per-tick, and fuel and power go together, its sometimes necessary to pick a standard and roll with it.

The rest I kinda agree with to various degrees and I think we can clean it up.
Yeah, i wished it was standardized as well, but i've kinda learned to accept L/s vs L/t, i just want simpler calculations so why is it L/s :( and you have EU/t, two different number ranges will cause A LOT of unnecessary calculations just because somebody wanted to make some static numbers lower (20 times lower, but higher static numbers is better than more complicated maths)
Even with L/t you will probably need to convert the numbers in the fluid pipes anyways, if it was L/t from the start (in the pipes) then it would probably be a lot better, there might be a reason for L/s tho.

You are right in that using Number/s is more inaccurate than Numbers/t, the number of ticks per second isn't constant and might make your calculations inaccurate. We should just stick with Numbers/t tbh.
 

Tsuko

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So what of that as a potential change? Would it be possible @Blood Asp to make it display per tick instead of per second?
I dunno, if it a lot of work i wouldn't want to bother somebody with it, i wish i could do it myself. Actually that is what i'm thinking about a lot of things. Imperfect / clunky things bothers me more than it should.
 

Jason McRay

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I vote for config option to show L/s and mB/t. But its not hard to calculate that on the go. Its just L/s / 20 = mb/t.
@Blood Asp why actually Greg decided to use metric system instead of classic minecraft?
 

Ieldra

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I vote for config option to show L/s and mB/t. But its not hard to calculate that on the go. Its just L/s / 20 = mb/t.
No, it's not hard. But it's easier to make mistakes if an explanation uses different units, especially in somewhat complex calculations, where it may make the difference between being able to calculate stuff on the fly in your head, or using a spreadsheet just to be sure there wasn't some conversion-related mistake. I think a config option would be nice.
 

Tsuko

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I vote for config option to show L/s and mB/t. But its not hard to calculate that on the go. Its just L/s / 20 = mb/t.
@Blood Asp why actually Greg decided to use metric system instead of classic minecraft?
Thats a good idea, Liters for volume / second and millibuckets for volume / tick, its visibly more distinct as well.

But i like that liters is a whole unit (by name, compared to saying "ml") whilst millibucket is a milli of a bucket.
A bucket containing 1000L of liquid is strange in the first place so i'm opposed to this.

What is more elegant: 0,001mB or 1ml? you can see the benefits of using a whole unit :D
(i guess you could go 1µB but the micro sign is hard to type)

Also if anybody changes how much a bucket can give / hold to more realistic levels then this volume measurement goes out the window. But a block will always have 1000L as it is 1 cubic meter by vanilla definition.



So with reliability, simplicity, accuracy and flexibility in mind i vote for L/t.
My personal preference is then: L/t > mB/t > L/s > mB/s
 
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Ieldra

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Wiki page updated for Large Turbine.

I forget if my changes publish instantly or they have to go through an approval process first. @SatanicSanta will probably send me a bunch of messages arguing over formatting and presentation. He'll be right on around half those complaints.

Feel free to submit corrections guys, I'll plonk em in if you don't want to.
A small mistake: the first sentence in the "Math" section implausibly starts with "Note that". Also, the subsection header "Optimal Flow and Nominal Output" is missing, which means the explanation appears to start abruptly in the middle of things.
 

Ieldra

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A bucket containing 1000L of liquid is strange in the first place so i'm opposed to this.
There's no way out of that implausibility, because it starts when Minecraft allows you to store a source block of liquid - one cubic metre approximately - in a bucket. The 1000L is an inevitable consequence of that, because one cubic metre equals 1000L. You might as well start to complain that our Minecraft avatar can carry more than a thousand cubic metres of solid iron.
 
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Tsuko

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There's no way out of that implausibility, because it starts when Minecraft allows you to store a source block of liquid - one cubic metre approximately - in a bucket. The 1000L is an inevitable consequence of that, because one cubic metre equals 1000L. You might as well start to complain that our Minecraft avatar can carry more than a thousand cubic metres of solid iron.
Well i kinda do :D eventually there might come a complete realism minecraft overhaul mod/modpack for the extreme hardcore minded people that would see how you could potentially do stuff in real life. of course punching trees and such would be disabled, floating blocks is probably unavoidable tho. This would make railcraft shine so much more imo if you couldn't carry a whole industry in your backpack and you would get a different kind of satisfaction getting things done.

I see you want me to complain about how much the avatar can carry and i might, but the game is balanced around that and it could have been avoided by different game mechanics. The gregtech ore veins is an excellent start on this: With these veins you could setup a industry to gather the ore and have minecarts bring back the goodies to your base automatically for processing. But if ores get more difficult to acquire then maybe a cubic meter of iron ore should give more than 1 iron ingot? I'm not sure how efficient it is in real life but it might actually already be pretty spot on, but making a shovel head out of 1 cubic meter of iron ore doesn't seem realistic. There are other more extreme examples but minecraft simply isn't balanced around being realistic but that shouldn't stop us from trying.
The macerator gives you 2 Ingots out of 1iron ore so i think BC IC and GT authors all already have realized this a long time ago.

So at the first days in minecraft you will setup as base where you find the iron or coal or whatever you are looking for or happend to find, then as you progress you can setup a base were you want because of minecarts.

Things tend toward realism in the end but i guess i won't find it in minecraft at least, which is fine. The gameplay of minecraft is probably better than a complete simulation would give anyways.

I guess you like mB over L for some reason, i think mB look kinda nice, but it is one extra letter usually for calculations and its hard to fit that on signs and in clipboards etc. I would actually want a 1 sign solution to L/t as "L/t" is actually 3 symbols and seems redundant if we invent another 1 symbol term for it but it feels a bit farfetched so i'm good with L/t as it is at least 1 symbol less.

Why insist on using mB as a measurement tho? were did it come from originally , BC? IC? RC? and is it used internally maybe? i'm not sure about what forge prefers for liquids internally.


About the 1 symbol solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_flow_rate
They usually use the symbol "Q" for volume over time. So 10Q would be 10L/t. Elegant solution right there and it is an official symbol and more compact and useful. Hope i'm not mistaken.
 
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Pyure

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There's no way out of that implausibility, because it starts when Minecraft allows you to store a source block of liquid - one cubic metre approximately - in a bucket. The 1000L is an inevitable consequence of that, because one cubic metre equals 1000L. You might as well start to complain that our Minecraft avatar can carry more than a thousand cubic metres of solid iron.
I dunno man. 1 Bucket fetching a minecraft block doesn't bother me. This is because a block is never measured in the game unless you're watching F3 and notice that each block is a meter long. On the other hand, all these other measurements are right in my face.

Also, any minecraft argument that basically says we can't make things more realistic because things are unrealistic in this other area just grates. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I'm always of the notion that we should strive to improve rather than descend to the lowest common denominator :)

About the 1 symbol solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_flow_rate
They usually use the symbol "Q" for volume over time. So 10Q would be 10L/t. Elegant solution right there and it is an official symbol and more compact and useful. Hope i'm not mistaken.
I'm not going to start introducing non-minecraft-standard symbols to the wiki, that will just confuse the hell out of everyone. If someone has to go read wikipedia to understand the page, we're doing it wrong :p
 
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Pyure

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Is there way to convert RF to EU without MFR?
For an ideal conversion rate of 4RF = 1EU, you can convert RF to compressed air using the Flux Compressor, and then convert that compressed air to IC2 EU with the Pneumatic Generator.

Speed upgrades in both machines will increase the rate at which you convert power, but also drastically cause overheating problems that you'll need to address using cooling apparatus. See the In Game Wiki for extensive details, but in short I use compressed iron blocks as fins, covered with heat sinks.

Don't expect to be able to convert more than around 1500 rf/t without losing some efficiency. I have 6 of these cooling arrays specifically to handle the output of a small BR Reactor (generating ~8000rf/t), and they're doing it at 93% efficiency. They take up a ton of space and cost a ton of resources.
 

adamich

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Um, I am at 42 page, but will go till last
My short question is "why ender io power conduits are disabled?"
 

Pyure

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Um, I am at 42 page, but will go till last
My short question is "why ender io power conduits are disabled?"
They're not afaik. They were disabled in a very early version, but later versions should still have them (I use them)

A small mistake: the first sentence in the "Math" section implausibly starts with "Note that".
Agreed, fixed.

Also, the subsection header "Optimal Flow and Nominal Output" is missing, which means the explanation appears to start abruptly in the middle of things.
Almost rejected. I wanted this to be an introductory paragraph. But its not working well as such, so fixed. That said, now I really want an introductory paragraph of some sort.

I also changed "maximum output" to "nominal output" for consistency. If those are two different things for the purpose of this page, then we have to explain what we mean by "maximum" output.
 

Pyure

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I just realized I created the notion of a "rotor" in the page, but we don't call it that. We call that a "turbine". That's confusing.

@Blood Asp, can you change the names of these items to Turbine Rotors, since that's what they are? The whole multiblock is a Turbine, we shouldn't be putting turbines inside of turbines.
 
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adamich

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in "zRFsupport.zs" I see
var conduitEnergy = <EnderIO:itemPowerConduit>;
var conduitEnergyEnhanced = <EnderIO:itemPowerConduit:1>;
var conduitEnergyEnder = <EnderIO:itemPowerConduit:2>;

recipes.remove(conduitEnergy);
NEI.hide(conduitEnergy);
recipes.remove(conduitEnergyEnhanced);
NEI.hide(conduitEnergyEnhanced);
recipes.remove(conduitEnergyEnder);
NEI.hide(conduitEnergyEnder);

It's a last version of modpack
 

Ieldra

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I just realized I created the notion of a "rotor" in the page, but we don't call it that. We call that a "turbine". That's confusing.

@Blood Asp, can you change the names of these items to Rotors, since that's what they are? The whole multiblock is a Turbine, we shouldn't be putting turbines inside of turbines.
There are already items named "rotors" (components of electric pumps), so that would be confusing. What about "turbine rotor"?