[1.7.10] Engineer's Toolbox - Now with programmable sockets!

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KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sockets now implement ISidedInventory, so they should work with anything that works with vanilla inventories.

The changes are fabulous, man. AE works with it. Barring unforseen circumstances, I'll be using your ore tripling in my series and I'm excited to build it.

But I do have a bug report for you! It seems that your batteries and generators do not properly store state on SMP server reset. Every time I restart the server, my batteries are empty. Even more weirdly, the tanks attached to your machines (the pulling fluid input) also seem to be empty. But this also extends to inventories, so I'll have a stack of algae ready to go and then boom, it's gone when I relog.

You can drop by our server if you want to see the process in action.
 

King Lemming

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Jul 29, 2019
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Regarding power conversion, they go both ways. King Lemming was very careful when he specified RF to pick a unit size that could convert easily to both MJ and EU. RF to MJ is 10:1 and RF to EU is 4:1. Both can be done exclusively with integer arithmetic, so power loops shouldn't be an issue. His exact words were:



This is why there's no conversion ratios in the config anymore (although, you'll still see the field if you have a config that was originally generated before ET 1.1.6.0).

Offhand, I'd recommend allowing for configurable conversion. Your ratios are accurate, but I myself am not sure if I agree with them being used as such - the 1600:4000 original ratio is pretty flawed in general - RC's boiler moon math in particular goes against this, as does my own Steam Dynamo now, I admit. I designed around integer conversion for speed, but I'd be much more likely to do 12:1 BC and 5:1 for EU myself, were I to write or use a converter.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Offhand, I'd recommend allowing for configurable conversion. I designed around integer conversion for speed, but I'd be much more likely to do 12:1 BC and 5:1 for EU myself, were I to write or use a converter.

As a modpack maintainer I'd like to second this sentiment. For example, Mekanism uses slightly different ratios for legacy reasons, and Mekanism is a fairly popular mod.

King Lemming said:
Your ratios are accurate, but I myself am not sure if I agree with them being used as such - the 1600:4000 original ratio is pretty flawed in general - RC's boiler moon math in particular goes against this, as does my own Steam Dynamo now, I admit.

My opinion is that RC's boiler is not something you can correct around. The curve is so broad that it's difficult to correct for it. All CJ can really do is make it less efficient, which I guess he has been doing. At least the build complexity and cost of boilers makes them not a "cheap" route.
 

Emasher

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Jul 29, 2019
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The changes are fabulous, man. AE works with it. Barring unforseen circumstances, I'll be using your ore tripling in my series and I'm excited to build it.

But I do have a bug report for you! It seems that your batteries and generators do not properly store state on SMP server reset. Every time I restart the server, my batteries are empty. Even more weirdly, the tanks attached to your machines (the pulling fluid input) also seem to be empty. But this also extends to inventories, so I'll have a stack of algae ready to go and then boom, it's gone when I relog.

You can drop by our server if you want to see the process in action.

I haven't seen this yet, but I don't do a lot of testing with servers. I'll check it out when I get home tonight and see if I can replicate it.

Offhand, I'd recommend allowing for configurable conversion. Your ratios are accurate, but I myself am not sure if I agree with them being used as such - the 1600:4000 original ratio is pretty flawed in general - RC's boiler moon math in particular goes against this, as does my own Steam Dynamo now, I admit. I designed around integer conversion for speed, but I'd be much more likely to do 12:1 BC and 5:1 for EU myself, were I to write or use a converter.

I've been thinking about the issue a lot over the last few days and I've come to the same conclusion. Lossless conversion would be nice, but there are just too many issues with compatibility for it to really be feasible. Power loops are a pretty bad exploit when you take mod packs and servers into account, so with that in mind, I'll be adding config options when I get a chance.

By the way, do TE conduits not work properly with IEnergyHandlers that have faces that both output and can intake energy?
 

King Lemming

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Jul 29, 2019
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I've been thinking about the issue a lot over the last few days and I've come to the same conclusion. Lossless conversion would be nice, but there are just too many issues with compatibility for it to really be feasible. Power loops are a pretty bad exploit when you take mod packs and servers into account, so with that in mind, I'll be adding config options when I get a chance.

By the way, do TE conduits not work properly with IEnergyHandlers that have faces that both output and can intake energy?

An implicit assumption we make is that a given side either outputs or inputs energy - this is why conduits are no longer sided, but Energy Cells are. There's no great way to handle something that does both without changing conduits back to the blue/orange thing. So what is happening is that you are pushing energy to the conduit, and the conduit pushes it right back to you, since you accept energy on that side.

Frankly, I can't really justify a block doing both things on a given side at the same time, sooo...

If you want to fix it on your end, you'd need a flag that basically states if a given side is sending or receiving for that tick, and short circuit your receiveEnergy function appropriately. There's literally no great way to do that, because either you'd have to put that logic in, or we would, and if the onus is on the conduit, it would involve complicating the API and greatly slowing down the process with function calls.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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I haven't seen this yet, but I don't do a lot of testing with servers. I'll check it out when I get home tonight and see if I can replicate it.

I've been thinking about the issue a lot over the last few days and I've come to the same conclusion. Lossless conversion would be nice, but there are just too many issues with compatibility for it to really be feasible. Power loops are a pretty bad exploit when you take mod packs and servers into account, so with that in mind, I'll be adding config options when I get a chance.

It's nice to clear the loops, but let modpack maintainers worry about it. Just give us a config and the ability enable and disable energy converter (right now RR users use your power conduits for easy MJ->EU conversion which is better than most any other, funny huh?) and a competent modpack will sort it out. Then your defaults matter less.

That said, your mod is so radically power positive I don't feel like people are motivated to game it too hard unless they're iron-constrained. I've seen these epic charcoal reactor designs now that useyour chimneys on gas turbines to produce MJ while producing fuel to make more MJ. It's pretty funny. Corjaantje on youtube had an even more ridiculous design using a zombie spawner and a villager in a minecart. :)
 

Saice

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Jul 29, 2019
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Man now I'm going to have to find some crazy way to make power or something with this... Thanks KirinDave. :p
 

Nick Dellhall

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Jul 29, 2019
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For the energy input/output info in NEI, it still says it can accept MJ/EU. Might want to update that.

I have been having a lot of fun trying to build power net controllers and storage w/ the new update. It seems to play well with a number of other mods.
 

Nick Dellhall

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Jul 29, 2019
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Not sure if its a bug, TE conduits seems to have trouble 'connecting' to a socket face. I find that I often need to break the conduits and place them again for them to connect properly.

Also, seems like BC pipes are not working properly on sockets after a server reset (I'm using golden transport pipes on the socket); it will reconnected if I break the pipe and replace it again (won't work if I just wrench out the socket and place it again).
 
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Pandemoneus

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Jul 29, 2019
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Also, seems like BC pipes are not working properly on sockets after a server reset (I'm using golden transport pipes on the socket); it will reconnected if I break the pipe and replace it again (won't work if I just wrench out the socket and place it again).

Try downloading the latest version (or tell your admin to). You won't be able to connect BC energy pipes to sockets then, but then there will be an MJ adapter which needs to be put between your socket and your pipe and, as it now stands, that block does not have your mentioned troubles.
 

Nick Dellhall

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sorry, I wasn't clear, the energy pipes I understand because of the MJ adaptor. It's the item pipes that are not connecting properly to the sockets.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sorry, I wasn't clear, the energy pipes I understand because of the MJ adaptor. It's the item pipes that are not connecting properly to the sockets.

This may have actually been a TE3 bug. It was disconnecting power conduits from AE and item conduits from ironchests for me on server restarts as well. I do not think that bug still exists.
 

Nick Dellhall

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Jul 29, 2019
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Well, its the BC golden transport pipes - not the TE3 itemducts (have yet to try those!)... I'm using the latest version of Emasher's mods.

Dave, I tried your algae farm setup and I find that every time the server reset, the golden transport pipes will not reconnect, but luckily the socket itself has a large enough internal inventory. I might try TE3 itemducts once I get to that stage.
 

Emasher

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Jul 29, 2019
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As far as various types of pipes not connecting to sockets, item pipes will most likely only connect to sockets when you've already selected an inventory for a module at the time of placing the pipe. This was a consequence of adding ISidedInventory support to the various item I/O modules. For some reason a lot of the pipes that support both ISpecialInventory and ISidedInventory (the BuildCraft ones) check ISidedInventory first, while they should be checking ISpecialInventory first. It doesn't really matter as far as gameplay goes as long as you configure the socket before placing the pipe. I don't know if the Thermal Expansion stuff not connecting is a bug with TE or ET, but from the sounds of it, it was an issue with TE. If it's still an issue once the actual release of Thermal Expansion is out (as opposed to a beta) you should definitely report it as an issue on my github page an I'll look more closely at it.
 
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tedyhere

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Jul 29, 2019
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Man, once people wrap their minds around how ET works...I think it will blow up big.

I mean seriously....Algae farms for power....genius