1.6.4 Liquid Fuel Boiler fuel changes.
- Thread starter Sarda
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My friends CovertJaguar agreed with you ! In last dev change log:
Solid fuel get nerfedLiquid are no valuable fuel
Oh for balls sakes...
Charcoal nerf=good, as I've been ranting it's far too easy to run boilers off charcoal...
Coal and Coke, w....t...f!!!!! Nerfing non-renewables just takes all use out of them. I for instance love building my 12 coke ovens to run a boiler and a blast furnace constantly. Now I've gotta build 20 coke ovens for the same result as well as mine double the coal!!! Pass... (oh and deal with double the creosote)
CJ please please listen, do the nerf on the renewables by all means as they're easy to produce and are RENEWABLE but leave the coal and fuel where they are... People will then have to make a decision whether to choose between rarer materials(non-renewable) for easier/more power or common materials(renewable) in bulk for the same amount of power.
And if one person mentions bees as a balance point may the internet give you a slap.
/rant over
Before this goes any further, I ask everyone to keep three points in consideration:
- All the aforementioned fuel changes are subject to change. This is the very first step in a major rebalancing effort, so before you claim the structural collapse of the sky let it play out for a week or two and keep an eye out for further adjustments.
- Constructing infrastructure IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MINECRAFT. Seriously, if you're afraid of having to build more stuff why are you even playing the game?
- If you still don't agree with the changes, simply change the config options back. They added config options specifically for this reason. You ultimately have control over how you want to play. Use it.
Sorry it's not. The only point of minecraft is fun. This can be achieved through infrastructure but is not mutually exclusive.
1. Forums are a form of feedback. I don't need to go double up my tree farm to know... that I'm just going to double up my tree farm. Thus, feedback.Before this goes any further, I ask everyone to keep three points in consideration:
If your issue can be resolved with any of these three points, simply wish each other a good day and be happy that your world is a slightly better place.
- All the aforementioned fuel changes are subject to change. This is the very first step in a major rebalancing effort, so before you claim the structural collapse of the sky let it play out for a week or two and keep an eye out for further adjustments.
- Constructing infrastructure IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MINECRAFT. Seriously, if you're afraid of having to build more stuff why are you even playing the game?
- If you still don't agree with the changes, simply change the config options back. They added config options specifically for this reason. You ultimately have control over how you want to play. Use it.
2. No, really, building another tree farm is trivial. But the added mess for the server, the added space needed, etc are doing -no one- any favors.
3. Players are 100% at the mercy of the server owners here, so not that simple.
Not yet but it's the third build from last official. Expect 20 builds before, config will come.
Coal coke is quicker to make, and maybe the creosote output will be lowered ( I always have too much creosote. )
Wow. Just Wow. So much for coal standard and thanks for the extra server load. This adds nothing to gameplay. Now I just need 2x the number of SC2 carts or tree farms to power my ExtraBees machines. Once you can make 1 tree farm, you can make 2, or 5, or 10.
I was with Player, CJ, and Sengir with the liquid fuel nerf. I *thought* that was to encourage an under-appreciated part of Sengir's mod and to scale back the madness of oil biomes and Refined bees. But, this ?
This adds *NOTHING* to gameplay. It simply requires tree farm spam. Doing the same thing twice is not fun, it's tedious and causes more server load.
I was with Player, CJ, and Sengir with the liquid fuel nerf. I *thought* that was to encourage an under-appreciated part of Sengir's mod and to scale back the madness of oil biomes and Refined bees. But, this ?
This adds *NOTHING* to gameplay. It simply requires tree farm spam. Doing the same thing twice is not fun, it's tedious and causes more server load.
My friends CovertJaguar agreed with you ! In last dev change log:
Solid fuel get nerfed
As I said in the TE3 Preview thread this is a meaningless change here's why; a 36HP Solid eats 720 charcoal per hour in 1.5, you need 1440 as of this change. I had just finished prototyping a charcoal factory that produces about 48,000 charcoal per hour consuming only 1440 of it to keep the entire system completely enclosed; it never needs any outside materials, no human maintence, nothing, I never even have to look at it ever again unlike any Liquid system thus still its still completely superior. Under the new solid fuel values it'll cost me 2880 of 48000 charcoal instead to keep the loop running, whoop...
But wait it gets better! After thinking about it for about 30 seconds I realized that If charcoal was 1600 and its now nerfed to 800, with planks that were worth 300 and are still worth 300 and you get 4 per log which is equal to 1200 its actually 50% more efficient now to just send all your logs->planks->solid boilers... Well that cuts a huge step out of the process! So my Charcoal Factory is now a Plank Factory that produces 192,000 Planks per hour for solid boiler fuel and at half the MJ cost of the charcoal factory since I can just cut that entire furnace part of it out so i'm now using 3840 planks of 192,000 produced to power it.
Once you can make a tree farm you've hit the infinite wood threshold, at that point anything that can use wood is officially free and infinitly expandable with minimal effort. Balancing around a infinite resource that requires zero effort and can be refined at negilible cost or even free using Vanilla methods is ludicrous.
All he's doing is lagging servers more because AE and LogisticsPipes are just going to be shuffling around 2x-4x as many items thru networks to keep up, he could literally nerf solid into the ground and the only thing he'll ever accomplish is increasing that multiplier.
This is pro kneejerk balance at its finest that only causing more server lag, please just stop with the insanity and go back to 1.5 fuel values across the board.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I can't even imagine needing that many MJs anymore post-TE. You can argue the power-hungry Extra Bees stuff but those aren't things that run often enough to require a boiler. People seem to get mad over getting less output, but really, do you think you'll need the same MJ output you're getting now?
To add to AlanEsh:
1. Unless end-game MJ consumers like ExtraBees (genetic machines) and MFR (laser) are on-board, I don't see how the mod packs will be properly balanced. As it is, MFR was already the long pole in the tent in terms of MJ power production. The MFR tree farm produced/produces more charcoal for the effort than any other method and the Bio Reactor and Bio Generator are easier and more powerful than the Forestry equivalent. This is merely going to drive players *away* from BC and Forestry and into MFR.
2. Spamming more of the same is not the entire point of minecraft. I don't see how this change will cause a new or different kind of infrastructure. It would have been different if a new (more difficult) fuel was introduced, but it's not. This just means 2x of the same solid fuel as before, hence, twice as many tree farms. Well, maybe less if you don't bother with charcoal and simply burn planks as Sarda said.
3. As AlanEsh said, this is not an option for players joining a server where they are not the server admin. It may also turn new players away from the mods that are self-nerfing.
This change might have gone over better had it been announced in conjunction with matching ExtraBees and MFR changes, for example.[DOUBLEPOST=1383863387][/DOUBLEPOST]
I guess you haven't seen me breed bees ;-)
I need at least 2x 36HP plus MJ buffers (TE RECs or Ender IO Capacitors) to keep my Synthesizers and Purifiers running. And, that doesn't count all the other MJ consumption needed for centrifuges, squeezers, fermenters, stills, furnaces, pulverizers, AE, Quantum bridges, etc.,.
My minimum end-game setup is around 500 MJ/t. Looks like I'll be swapping to MFR Bio Generators @ 16MJ/t each.
Synthesizers and Purifiers PLURAL??
Admittedly I only have one of each and they serve me quite well, but I guess if you got a good system that works for you, keep going. I personally choke my Extra Bees machines on a REC from a tesseract which means they drain when in heavy use, but still run fairly quickly even when the buffer is out. Quickly enough to where it doesn't bother me, but I know some people hate to see an empty buffer lol.
I'm just thinking a lot of what I currently do relies on TE in one way or another and since TE is moving away from Buildcraft energy, I'm not taking any BC power changes seriously yet. Like you said, people may move away from BC energy in the long run. I'm thinking that's not necessarily a bad thing.
wait... when did minecraft get the multicore feature?
I thought it was single-threaded and therefore it could not use even the second core (aswell as the rest of a quad, hexa or even octacore computer)
Well it's... complicated... Minecraft can use multiple core, but it's depend not only of your machine but mostly from your JVM. And in action a JVM is not good for good using of multiple core.It's like you can make lot of cake, but without hand it's: quick but dirty XOR slow and not so dirty.
I really so not see the point of BC and it's addon mods anymore. (For myself)
Quarry? There's this new husher mining thingamabob from Emasher's Engineer's Toolbox.
Item Pipes? There AppEng for high-tier. Mekanism is coming up with a new piping system that is aiming for entry level. TE is also coming up with their own pipe system which looks to be mid-tier if obsidian is needed. ExtraUtilities.
Liquid Pipes? TE's Liquiduct. ExtraUtilies Liquid Transfer Node. Ender IO.
Power? TE's new redstone flux system. UE' watts. Ender IO still uses mj without the need of BC and UE supports MJ through internal conversion as well. MFR provides the MJ via their Biogenerator as well.
I might well be missing a lot of other alternatives but I really do not see the draw of BC for me anymore. I do not play with the bees and the trees. I've only used the pipes, gates, pipe wiring and facades for some fancy builds which is not crucial. RailCraft, only for the tanks and boilers, the rolling machine too because you need it for RC's stuffs.
All of the above is my own opinion and doesn't speak for anyone else but me.
Quarry? There's this new husher mining thingamabob from Emasher's Engineer's Toolbox.
Item Pipes? There AppEng for high-tier. Mekanism is coming up with a new piping system that is aiming for entry level. TE is also coming up with their own pipe system which looks to be mid-tier if obsidian is needed. ExtraUtilities.
Liquid Pipes? TE's Liquiduct. ExtraUtilies Liquid Transfer Node. Ender IO.
Power? TE's new redstone flux system. UE' watts. Ender IO still uses mj without the need of BC and UE supports MJ through internal conversion as well. MFR provides the MJ via their Biogenerator as well.
I might well be missing a lot of other alternatives but I really do not see the draw of BC for me anymore. I do not play with the bees and the trees. I've only used the pipes, gates, pipe wiring and facades for some fancy builds which is not crucial. RailCraft, only for the tanks and boilers, the rolling machine too because you need it for RC's stuffs.
All of the above is my own opinion and doesn't speak for anyone else but me.
Well said, sir, and good points all. Per RedBoss' suggestion, I've started a thread on this topic:
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/what-would-a-1-6-post-bc-power-gen-world-look-like.34053/
Ahh that why hosts can say that more cores can be used. But in the end it's not going to do much if anything.
It does change something, but sometime it get bad... Most of case it's good, and sometime even efficient.But if notch had efficiency in plan, they he should use something like C++, or even make it WebGL ( I know it's only possible since 1 year )