jetpacks/lasers < railgun and powersuit flight (gliders, parachuts jetboots etc) As for tools use enchantments and soul shards. More bang for your buck. In reality there is no need anymore for ic2.
1.5.1 Beta Pack: Are U Looking Forward To It?
- Thread starter RedBoss
- Start date
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You mean the tiered cart hulls like right now? Or are we talking about a different tiered system?
Ars can only boost unfertilized farms, otherwise everything is max speed anyways.
Why would anybody run an unfertilized farm?
Uh. Did you actually read it?
What you built in 1.4.7 will now produce absolutely nothing from a log block, 45% of the time. The rest of the time it will produce one stick or one plank or one log. End result: Total output of logs is 20% what it used to be.
Additionally, saplings are 60% old output.
Woah woah WOAH! That is really how Steve's Carts works with Tree Farms now?! That is borderline USELESS, I'd rather go with MFR solutions then.
Oh I meant SC2 farms, where you need bone meal. You can use Ars to produce the bone meal for free to reload the cart, or you can use a caster to force tree growth. I think the SC2 output was adjusted so that it's only worthwhile if you constantly fertilize the trees.
I still think this is a fair change. SC2 tree farms were insanely good. Way too good. Like: literally nothing anyone has ever released was as good as a SC2 tree farm. Many of us have single-SC2 tree farms that ran uninterrupted for months powering 5-6 solid boilers and 3-5 liquid boilers running off a single chunk. With excess output. That is too good.
But these new numbers are gonna bum people out, I am sure.
Oh thank you SO much. </sarcasm>
His Wiki hasn't had information updated on it for the better part of a year and a half. Heck even the Minecraft forums post it directs to is old. Hmm. I'll just dig around, see where the changelog is located. Maybe I can find it.[DOUBLEPOST=1366746293][/DOUBLEPOST]
No I do get the concept of an SC2 Tree Farm being 'too effective', I am right there with you on this concept. But now you cut down a tree.. but don't always get a log. It is actually LESS effective than just going out and using a blasted axe? Automation or not, that is kinda silly. Yes, perhaps it 'needed nerfing' but I'm not quite sure this was an optimal way to bring things back into balance. One thing that could make my SC2 Tree Farm cart stop working so smoothly.. is if they just removed the ability of Coal Engines in carts to burn WOOD as a fuel. Then I would at least have to PROCESS the wood into Charcoal.
Heck, just make the things require coal or coal coke and not charcoal. But cutting down a tree block and NOT getting a log per block? Bleh.
Seriously, what?
http://stevescarts2.wikispaces.com/Basic Wood Cutter
Changelog is also on the wiki. As is the download. And it's all linked from the forum post.[DOUBLEPOST=1366746621][/DOUBLEPOST]
BTW, you know I run five boilers off a single MFR tree farm, right?
Not just a single farm, but a single block of that single farm. All the other blocks don't have dirt.
This is my point exactly. SC2 Tree Farms are NOT "insanely good. Way too good. Like: literally nothing anyone has ever released was as good as a SC2 tree farm" as KirinDave put it. There are numerous other ways that can be just as efficient and effective, and honestly the MFR method requires a much smaller footprint. The whole perk (for me at least) behind making an SC2 cart of ANY kind was the uniqueness and cleverness of the carts.
I think I do see what he is trying to achieve; he wants to make sure that the first cart you build isn't the last cart you build. (I.E. You build one cart, and it is so uber to start with that you never have to upgrade). With that being said, there could have been MUCH better methods for gating progress in order to motivate upgrades. For instance, why not make the lower level cutters just cut wood SUPER SLOW. You still get 100% of the yield you SHOULD be getting, but you double or triple the speed with every step.
Now we'll have cutters producing "Twigs" apparently? Joy yet another sub-resource type.
Let me quote myself, as it was actually myself who said it, and not the non-myself you're attributing to me now: "Seriously, what?"
Not everybody you disagree with belongs to a hive mind combined entity posting from thousands of different accounts but being a single sophant entity.
For one, we both know that for trees dense multi-block farms actually decrease overall yield, not increase them.
I was there when you set it up, if you recall. I even helped move some parts. Some key differences in my estimation, though:
- It wasn't self-bootstrapping. A treecart is a fire and forget piece of infrastructure with almost no interaction once it's off the cart builder, save for you using the cargo manager.
- It actually involved some power tuning. Remember how we drained that sucker?
- I think it's STILL running off advanced solars, isn't it? You never closed the loop because that'd require an MJ-> EU transition or a Railcraft steam turbine. So yeah, it's not making its own power the way an SC system does.
- If your transit system ever stalls, it'll require manual intervention to restart. SC2 systems only die if the server loses them, which can happen but usually doesn't.
- It involved setting up a fertilizer farm. Which is a small, but fun and important, gate.
Yeah, uh, pre-nerf SC2 could easily outproduce MFR and is better in every way except for the cost of building tracks. I will stand by my statement. SC2 tree farms could handle more types of trees out of the box than MFR can, as well. And their sapling output is still really, really good.
Sengir's forestry changes do not matter a whit for SC2 and MFR treefarms (even post SC2 nerf), they still produce a ton. But pre-nerf, you had a harder time amassing the steel for the liquid boilers than providing them with output
Well, it could with generators. A SC wastes a ton of (unprocessed) logs powering itself directly. So many that its output drops pretty dramatically. That's why when I used a cart system I made charcoal with bluetricities not-real-power furnace. (Poppy's runs on charcoal as well)
A skeleton farm is better actually, since MFR works with IC2 fertilizer. One scrap + one bonemeal makes the first fertilizer, and forever after one fertilizer+one bonemeal makes two fertilizer.
Pre-nerf SC2 could not outproduce a MFR farm if that SC2 tried to power itself with unprocessed logs.
At least for 1.4.7, this is a backwards statement. MFR works with EXL trees and IC2 rubber (as well as MFR rubber). SC works with...well.. Vanilla trees only.
For 1.5.1, MFR works the same and I see no evidence SC2 has changed in the changelog. Although I haven't tested.
"Deals with more types of trees out of the box"? Uhm.. SC2 carts only work with vanilla saplings for me. Forestry / mod tree types have never worked for me. What is your secret behind this "more types of trees" thing?
I'm not going to bother getting into some advanced mathematical argument regarding the output differences between an SC2 Tree Farm and an MFR Tree Farm. I think their efficiency compares. You don't. Fine. That isn't the central point of my confusion with this change to wood cutters.
My confusion surrounds why they chose to make the lower tiers of wood cutters actually produce anything other than logs and saplings. Apparently if you have a Galgadorian Cutter, you do not even get logs anymore you get "wood" (which I assume means planks?). If you have a Basic or Hardened Cutter, you have to deal with 'Twigs', which have to be processed into sticks? Why not just GIVE sticks.. why the silly extra step?
Thank you for reinforcing this, DoctorOr. I knew I wasn't crazy remembering SC2 working only with vanilla saplings.
On that note, does MFR make use of Forestry trees?