Why do you like hardmode/grindy minecraft?

[midi_sec]

Maybe, but the general attitude about mods like AE are something to pay attention to. People have grown accustomed to having the blinky computer box by steve's day 2, and now that all has changed with AE2, they are less than happy now that they are forced to play the progression game. This is mainly what I'm referring to.

I am not sure why the culture of the average minecrafter dictates that happiness is to Have all the things, not enriching the experience of working towards all the things.

 

[Cptqrk]

Hey now, some would say I'm one of those types (with AE2 LOL)

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[Strikingwolf]

BTW we weren't talking about "Hard-mode mods" in the "A ShitStorm thread" we were talking about deep/complex mods

 

[Vasa]

For me hard means less ores, expensive recipes with multiple steps and too much hostile mobs while im at beggining..

 

[Cptqrk]

BTW we weren't talking about "Hard-mode mods" in the "A ShitStorm thread" we were talking about deep/complex mods

Arn't we? LOL

I'm actually interested in seeing your thoughts on this @Strikingwolf Do you enjoy hard mode mods? What makes one hard mode compared to others for you? Why do you enjoy this type of "challenge"?

 

[Golrith]

I like harder mode, but not grind. Adding a grind just to make things "hard" turns me right off.
So, as a result, in my personal pack, I use a unique ore gen system, resources are scarce, although appear plentiful at first glance (hell, I've even added a 0.5x ore processing system available to all good cavemen! Based on testing, this can be helpful in a pinch). Recipes are tweaked to reduce outputs, energy usage increased, energy gen decreased. Various recipes are tweaked to adjust their position in the "tech tree" but I try to ensure that there are multiple paths to progress through the "tech tree", either from more cross mod compatibility, or by having a component being more efficient to craft if you use more advanced tech.

I also like survival to mean more, but not to the crazy levels of BnB. So Zombie Awareness is always included along with some mob mods, plus used Hunger Overall in the past, but switched this time to Spice of Life. Felt HO didn't really make things any harder and not all the config options had an effect (at the time of 1.6.4).

I also try to ensure that crafting chains are not too deep, or only deep on the rare/unique items you'll need a few off. Looking at you Steves Carts. Really turned off that mod when I had to build a "simple" chest for my cart. Large and Small Wood Panels, Locking Mechanism, etc. Gah. Vanilla chest is just 8 planks. Too inconsistent with "the minecraft feel".

Hopefully my changes ensure that any added "Grind" is actually hidden among a sense of logical progression, or among the normal gameplay of survival/world events, or just from the satisfaction of actually building something that once built helps to reduce the apparent grind.

 

[epidemia78]

I like harder mode, but not grind. Adding a grind just to make things "hard" turns me right off.
So, as a result, in my personal pack, I use a unique ore gen system, resources are scarce, although appear plentiful at first glance (hell, I've even added a 0.5x ore processing system available to all good cavemen! Based on testing, this can be helpful in a pinch). Recipes are tweaked to reduce outputs, energy usage increased, energy gen decreased. Various recipes are tweaked to adjust their position in the "tech tree" but I try to ensure that there are multiple paths to progress through the "tech tree", either from more cross mod compatibility, or by having a component being more efficient to craft if you use more advanced tech.

I also like survival to mean more, but not to the crazy levels of BnB. So Zombie Awareness is always included along with some mob mods, plus used Hunger Overall in the past, but switched this time to Spice of Life. Felt HO didn't really make things any harder and not all the config options had an effect (at the time of 1.6.4).

I also try to ensure that crafting chains are not too deep, or only deep on the rare/unique items you'll need a few off. Looking at you Steves Carts. Really turned off that mod when I had to build a "simple" chest for my cart. Large and Small Wood Panels, Locking Mechanism, etc. Gah. Vanilla chest is just 8 planks. Too inconsistent with "the minecraft feel".

Hopefully my changes ensure that any added "Grind" is actually hidden among a sense of logical progression, or among the normal gameplay of survival/world events, or just from the satisfaction of actually building something that once built helps to reduce the apparent grind.

I like the idea but it sounds too much like a grind just setting it up to play. if I were to go the route you did and customize my pack to be more balanced, Im not sure I would focus too much on adding new ways to die. I get that it forces you to really focus some energy on food production and stuff but eating isnt fun nor is dying of starvation. I would rather just choose to do it because I want to. But increased power consumption/output, and harder recipes I am all for. Especially in the building blocks department. First thing I would do is disable the recipe for the chisel and make all of the fancy chisel blocks have an actual recipe that isnt cheaper than dirt. Hell, stone bricks should be a little bit more difficult to come by, and cobble should always be hard on the eyes, no matter what texturepack. Just as clay brick should be awesome.

 

[trajing]

For me it's about the complexity. I like things that make me think. Even if I just impose rules on myself to make things more complex, I find it more interesting.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Arn't we? LOL

I'm actually interested in seeing your thoughts on this @Strikingwolf Do you enjoy hard mode mods? What makes one hard mode compared to others for you? Why do you enjoy this type of "challenge"?

For me it's about the complexity. I like things that make me think. Even if I just impose rules on myself to make things more complex, I find it more interesting.

This. I like stuff that makes me think more then "hard" stuff.

The only hard stuff I like is total-conversion (i.e. TFC, BTW, Gregtech, etc.)

 

[Cptqrk]

This. I like stuff that makes me think more then "hard" stuff.

The only hard stuff I like is total-conversion (i.e. TFC, BTW, Gregtech, etc.)

If I may ask, what is it about Gregtech that makes you think? Some folks just see it as a mod that adds steps (seen by those as being unnecessary steps at that)

 

[midi_sec]

If I may ask, what is it about Gregtech that makes you think? Some folks just see it as a mod that adds steps (seen by those as being unnecessary steps at that)

How do I optimally feed all 72 of these double overclocked centrifuges, and 12 overclocked electrolyzers (among other things) with EU to keep them full of power yet not wasting any?

Everyone's solution is different. To me it's fun to do show and tell on SMP.

 

[Strikingwolf]

If I may ask, what is it about Gregtech that makes you think? Some folks just see it as a mod that adds steps (seen by those as being unnecessary steps at that)

It has complex systems of doing things. Like the lava boiler

how do I optimally feed all 72 of these double overclocked centrifuges, and 12 overclocked electrolyzers with EU to keep them full of power yet not wasting any?

this is great

 

[netmc]

I like setting up the complex systems that keep everything running. Balancing the input of the various farms, or setting up a automatic cut-off when I can't. I dislike grinding for the sake of grinding. Especially if there is absolutely no way to automate. I played magic farm 2 for while with hard core and the foodie configs, and I found everything nice and difficult. It had a steep learning curve, but once you learned it, it wasn't really all that hard. I ultimately stopped playing it though due to the random infernal mobs. You could do absolutely everything right, yet still die due to an ender creeper or some such ninja/rust zombie with regen. I don't mind dying due to my mistakes, but when you die on hardcore purely due to RNG, that takes the fun out of it.

I haven't played with GT since 1.5.2, but what I liked about it was that *everything* had a use. You could ultimately spin any resource into energy or another more valuable resource with some time and ingenuity. Some of the manipulation chains were downright long and complex, but it could be done.

Right now, I am playing a mix of magic based mods in 1.7.10. Thaumcraft, Blood Magic, Botania, Witchery, Twilight Forest, Forestry (and Binnie's Mods), Buildcraft and Railcraft plus a few cross-over mod add-ons. I added in Chococraft (dungeons) for a little added difficulty, but have yet to find a dungeon . I am considering adding in Zombie Awareness for a bit more challenge, but that would likely break the dungeons with Chococraft.

I don't mind difficult mobs (like what natura does with the Nether) but I dislike it when the difficult mobs are everywhere. It doesn't give you a peaceable area when you just want to build.

I guess my favorite mods are ones that you can't get access to all at once, and don't arbitrarily hold things back behind the need for a mass of diamonds or ender pearls, but have other limitations in the game play, hence my current pack. Nothing is locked behind a wall of diamonds, yet everything will take time to unlock and build.

I've played my current world for the last couple days, and think I'm going to start a fresh one despite the time I've put into it. The worldgen is just kinda blah. I've wandered in about a 2000 block wide circle and have yet to find a desert or magical forest. With starting over, I'm thinking about adding in Deadly World along with Pam's Harvestcraft, Hunger Overhaul, and Spice of Life. Mining and running into a silverfish vein may lead to a hasty retreat, but shouldn't kill me outright. It should keep me on my toes, and up the engagement factor a notch or two. I've actually grown rather fond of Pam's Harvestcraft between Magic Farm 2 and AgS, and like all the different food choices available. This doesn't add any real long term difficulty, but will give me a focus during my early game while I am building up resources and planning a base.


Side note: I will likely add Natura back in just for the more dangerous nether, but can anyone recommend any mods that add in dungeons/overall mob difficulty without the craziness of infernal mobs?

 

[DriftinFool]

Here's my likes and dislikes.
I like Rotarycraft and don't consider it a hardmode mod. It doesn't change my hunger or make staying alive any more difficult than vanilla. I also don't find it grindy at all. It has what I consider logical progression. Seeing all the moving shafts and gears is cool to me and I am mechanically inclined, so it makes sense. It also was different enough from all the standard mods I had been playing for so long, while still allowing me to do the same things. It was new to me. Math doesn't bother me since I can do some pretty large numbers in my head. I had a good chunk of the power of 2's table memorized within a week or 2 of starting it, and note pad with them in case I forgot. Reika's involvement in the community made me like it even more.

I liked Gregtech before he screwed with vanilla tools and added his ages. The advanced machines gave me even more things to build in my factories. Even in the current version, I don't consider it hard, just too grindy for me. I play minecraft to play minecraft and I felt he changed to much while still trying to stay within the accepted rules of MC. I also disliked some of the crap he pulled with interactions with certain mods. That debacle kinda turned me off to him and his mod.

After watching LP's of Agrarian Skies, and more recently crash landing, I think the hardcore quest mod is amazing, but I'm just not interested in those 2 implementations. There are quests in them you must do that involve parts of MC I am not interested in doing. Mainly magic mods like Thaumcraft or Blood Magic. I am just not a huge fan of magical mods. I like the tech side because I enjoy building complex systems. The hunger overhaul doesn't bother me too much, because it is more realistic and food in regular MC is may as well not exist because it is so easy to obtain.

I had heard of TFC a while back, but didn't understand what a total conversion mod truly meant and never actually looked at it. After catching a few episodes of Etho's LP on it, I found it very interesting. I guess because it was so different, including the world gen, that it didn't feel like MC. By feeling like a completely new game, I didn't have preconceived notions that things follow the laws of MC. It was fresh and new. I had to learn everything from scratch. I am just now midway through Autumn of my 1st year. I still don't have a bed, or a roof on my house. In vanilla MC, I could have done that in less than an hour. It doesn't feel grindy to me either. I don't have to spend hours crafting. Even though making molds, kilns, charcoal pits, etc take time to run, I am not wasting all my time just making tons of parts, to make more parts, to make more parts to make one machine. *cough Greg cough*That is what I define as grindy. I fire up a kiln in a minute or two and go do other things. Same with the others I mentioned. Yes things can take along time, but not my time, so I get to explore the amazing world it generated. I enjoy the realism factors. It is more of a challenge than normal MC, without being frustrating.

I guess all and all, I mostly like the newness of some of these mods because I have been playing the same mods in MC for years. Even when they add new content, they are still basically the same. I know how to start and what I need to go after 1st. I found my last few worlds ended up with almost identical setups and it was getting boring. Reika's mods have opened a new chapter in the MC world I already know. TFC is like starting a new book. The change of pace is nice. The logical tech progression with grinding is also fun for me. It gives me goals.


On a side note, BTW has some interesting things from I have seen and read, but I have yet to try it. I still may, but my world with Reika's mods is sharing my time with TFC currently, and I am far from the boredom and monotony that I was starting to feel playing the same old mods for so long.

 

[McJty]

I like hard mode and having a real challenge surviving in your world. But I don't like tedious and complicated recipes (unless I can automate them with AE or similar). I'm currently playing Ultra Hard Survival from ATLauncher. There aren't many tech mods in that pack and most things don't require that many steps to craft but it is a lot of fun because playing in this mod pack is a constant struggle against the environment. Silverfish everywhere, tornadoes that can wreck your outdoor buildings, strong zombies, no health generation. That's the kind of game that I personally like to play a lot. I like the sense of danger.

This is also why in 'normal difficulty' modpacks I generally like the first part of the game more then the middle/late game because in the first part there is still a challenge to survive.

UHS does make it more difficult to craft normal things though. For example, you can only get an iron pickaxe through Tinkers Construct which means you have to make a smeltery and stuff like that. Not very hard but it is harder then just melting three iron ingots and crafting a pickaxe from that. But I like this change as it makes sense to me that it works like this.

I would *love* to see more modpacks like UHS that are balanced for survival and exploration and remain difficult upto the end.

 

[buggirlexpres]

I enjoy uniqueness above all else. Usually, if it is unique and complex, I'm all for it. But if after a while, the new mechanics start to become boring and grindy, that's when I stop liking it. I apologize to those who got tired of the constant grinding at the Blood Altar in RR, I did too, after a while. So, with my next pack, I'm attempting to keep things as unique and interesting as possible.
That said, once the uniqueness is all good, I do enjoy complexity. Not as in endless crafting recipes, but as in you have to think about how to set things up, otherwise they'll explode or do fun stuff like that. F'rinstance, the new AE2. You can't just throw everything into a network, you have to think about where you're putting things.

 

[Golrith]

I like the idea but it sounds too much like a grind just setting it up to play. if I were to go the route you did and customize my pack to be more balanced, Im not sure I would focus too much on adding new ways to die. I get that it forces you to really focus some energy on food production and stuff but eating isnt fun nor is dying of starvation. I would rather just choose to do it because I want to. But increased power consumption/output, and harder recipes I am all for. Especially in the building blocks department. First thing I would do is disable the recipe for the chisel and make all of the fancy chisel blocks have an actual recipe that isnt cheaper than dirt. Hell, stone bricks should be a little bit more difficult to come by, and cobble should always be hard on the eyes, no matter what texturepack. Just as clay brick should be awesome.

Well, it's taken a good month out of my time sorting out the pack, but I've enjoyed tinkering, patiently (or not) waiting for mods to update. No ID conflicts makes the whole process so much more enjoyable. That's been part of the "game" for me But, I know what I've been aiming from from my experiences with this pack starting with 1.4.7.

It's survival, and all that mod added stuff beats vanilla, so makes survival trivial (even more than it already is). My changes attempt to expand those early days.
With the chisel mod, you can actually adjust it's config to change it's output quantity. I've hit that myself with a big old nerfbat. I think I changed it from 32 blocks to 8.

 

[Cptqrk]

So, if I may interject here...

Great responses everyone! I'm starting to see a pattern here, and that's what I was looking for!

Most folks like the "hard mode" mods because it offers them a challenge, but most of those same folks don't like grinding just for grinding's sake.
I see a split on the hunger/food altering mods.. Some find it interesting, but quickly learn how to "game" the system, while others find it annoying and just too much of a headache to play with.
Hard mode mobs are cool, unless they are RNG ZOMGWTFBBQ overpowered.

I'm still waiting on a few of the folks who have stated before that they prefer the hard mode mods to chime in, and maybe some mod makers too, as to why they make the mods the way they do.

I want to thank everyone as well, for keeping this very civil. Keep those opinions coming!

*Edit*
Welcome back from your break @Gideonseymour

 

[GreenZombie]

I like the hardmode mods for the sense of progression they offer, for the same way I prefer to build things in Survival rather than creative.

I dislike deep recipe trees unless AE is available to ... simplify that.
I dislike grind unless it can be automated, and I am really annoyed by grind automation that is offered only after so much material has been generated in the grind, that the automated version of the task is no longer necessary.

I dislike the one-upmanship inherent in a lot of tech mods: the bedrock tools offered by RoC are an unnecessary "my tools are bigger than yours" inclusion in a mod that is otherwise a well considered power system and set of machines. (Not to single out RoC in a negative way - its just (to me) an extremely good mod making this small wart all the more annoying).

 

[Methusalem]

Progression.

I like games where you start out with nothing and step by step build up your resources or your abilities. From a stone pickaxe to iron and diamond, then maybe to turtles and finally a quarry or mining lasers. From having to dump everything into chests, then a simple sorting system and in the end all the processing, sorting and storage is automated.

I think that is also a reason, why so many people like packs like AgSkies or Crash Landing. You start with only a sapling and from that you can create a world. And the HQM quests give additional goal to shoot for. And wanting progression doesn't mean that you like grind. BnB for example is not rewarding enough for the amount of work that you have to put in (at least in my opinion), I stopped playing it after a few days. GregTech is kinda grindy in the beginning with its Bronze Age, but in the end you can build some really powerful and complex designs with this pack. Enough reason to keep going with it.