What would YOU change about BuildCraft?

[Celestialphoenix]

Slimeballs->Sealant is indeed a thing, though you can also use any oredict green dye.
I agree with the striped pipe thing; its a little wierd as a pipe, and would be consistent with the floodgate if it were a block. Would 'Displacer' be a suitable name considering it could retract blocks?

 

[KingTriaxx]

Ocean should allow you to run any bees which need water to run, so you could use beeswax if you have Forestry as well.

I thought you had to smelt slimeballs for sealant though? Might have been a custom config thing though.

 

[asiekierka]

2. If I were the BC developer, I'd probably remake the Striped Pipe into a seperate block (Advanced Dispenser?). All of it's functions just seem... weird for a pipe.
3. Speaking of Striped Pipes, why can't they plant crops? It may be a bug, but I can't get them to place seeds unlike other blocks. I was hoping to automate farms using BC alone, but it looks like I'll have to wait for robots.

2. Stripes Pipes staying is SpaceToad's personal request, so they WILL stay that way. Also, try sending it an item pipe.
3. Fixed in BC7.

Also, experiments!

 

[gardenapple]

2. Stripes Pipes staying is SpaceToad's personal request, so they WILL stay that way. Also, try sending it an item pipe.
3. Fixed in BC7.

Fair enough.

Also, experiments!

This does look pretty good. At least, I prefer this over the old glass-like diagonal thingies in the midde.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

That's a lie, a dangerous lie. After BuildCraft 3., pipes have never constituted more than 1/3 of the codebase. BuildCraft has never been about logistical infrastructure, BuildCraft Transport is just one of the modules that happens to provide infrastructure.

Really? Tell me then, what exactly do you do with Buildcraft other than logistical infrastructure or automating overall tasks like the Quarry, Filler, and Builder? Because I just can't seem to think of anything.

None of them, just like BuildCraft, target infrastructure directly (except Thermal Dynamics, now with the recent TE split, and Tubes!): Project: Red/BluePower focus on wiring, Mekanism and Ender IO focus on machines.

Which does not change the fact that they have niche overlap.

A couple thousand? Let's see...

BC items despawn after 1200 ticks. You cannot possibly have more than 1 entity stack dropping per tick. A couple thousand would mean you'd have to be dropping items from 6+ pipes simultaneously and constantly, meaning you had 7200+ items to begin with. Also, install either AllTheItems or CoFHCore to fix the lag issues stemming from dropped items. Or lower the BC item despawn time, which is configurable.

The fact that they drop items into the world at all is a world-destroying bug just waiting to happen. And instead of trying to fix this by using any of several options of overflow management, you call it a feature. Yea, no thanks. I don't mind exploding machines if they get wired wrong like IC2 had back in the day. I can recover from a crater in my base, even if that crater takes out a chunk of my resource storage. Recovering from memory overflow is a touch harder.

No. BuildCraft never tried to make logistics easy. It never tried to make logistics instant or thoughtless. It never tried to make machines a triviality. Going in a direction which puts the end result above the journey is separate from BuildCraft, which puts the journey above the end result - which is what, in my view, a sandbox game should be about.

Again, you miss my point. Buildcraft is really only used for one thing: logistical infrastructure. Everything else in the mod supports that. The entire laser/gate code is designed to build on that. The entire energy infrastructure was built to support auto-mining and the filler, but really found its niche supporting the lasers, which again goes back to the logistical infrastructure,. It all boils down to that one niche.

BuildCraft Robots, Builders, Fillers and certain up-and-coming machines would like to express a sincere LOL.

Really, now. Robots are simply a slightly more complicated way of 'automating all the things'. Hopefully you won't go as far as CC did with their turtles, however whenever you start getting into 'fake players', you end up breaking far more things than you fix. Fillers are simply used for rapidly clearing spaces or building DW20-esque building shells. Builders are the only thing that you might possibly have a point about, but even then it's automation of a repeatable task, which can be done several other ways (I still enjoy my in-game 3d printer that uses RIM and block dispensers to create works that I made).

You want a LOL? I wish I could provide one. I'm just sorry to see you arguing the wrong topic. Here you are trying to argue that the mod doesn't do what it manifestly does, providing knee-jerk responses to the wrong stimulus, and completely ignoring the more fundamental problem. I only wish I found it funny, but it is decidedly unfunny to me.

Apparently we have different basic conceptual definitions, so it is clear that we are not going to be able to agree on anything which requires those basic conceptual definitions to be referenced. You say you see a sandbox... all I see is a logistical infrastructure with a very roubust support and a couple of tools to give it something to do without relying on other mods.

 

[asiekierka]

Really? Tell me then, what exactly do you do with Buildcraft other than logistical infrastructure or automating overall tasks like the Quarry, Filler, and Builder? Because I just can't seem to think of anything.

I harvest fields with Stripes Pipes or Robots. I cut down trees, I farm mobs. I use Facades and Gates for compact redstone systems.

Really, now. Robots are simply a slightly more complicated way of 'automating all the things'. Hopefully you won't go as far as CC did with their turtles, however whenever you start getting into 'fake players', you end up breaking far more things than you fix. Fillers are simply used for rapidly clearing spaces or building DW20-esque building shells. Builders are the only thing that you might possibly have a point about, but even then it's automation of a repeatable task, which can be done several other ways (I still enjoy my in-game 3d printer that uses RIM and block dispensers to create works that I made).

Fake players need to be used starting from autocrafting and entity interacton. Guess why the Auto Workbenches were rewritten?

You want a LOL? I wish I could provide one. I'm just sorry to see you arguing the wrong topic. Here you are trying to argue that the mod doesn't do what it manifestly does, providing knee-jerk responses to the wrong stimulus, and completely ignoring the more fundamental problem. I only wish I found it funny, but it is decidedly unfunny to me.

Make your own mod.

The fact that they drop items into the world at all is a world-destroying bug just waiting to happen. And instead of trying to fix this by using any of several options of overflow management

WHAT OPTIONS!?

Let's see.

• Smart routing (see RP2): NO. This would make gates, insertion pipes and etc. much more laggy in terms of server performance, as the direction in the graph would have to be recalculated on every gate-related interaction. (Also, it would invalidate most of the fun with BuildCraft)
  
• Backstuffing: Not visible to the player. That's terrible design.
• Bouncing an item in pipes forever: More CPU and memory-intensive than dropped items. Yes.
• Allowing an easy overflow pickup path: We already do it - insertion pipes.
• BONUS EDIT! Rendering an item as "frozen" and waiting for an output to appear: It's a workaround, not a solution. Once >32 stacks are in the pipe, it will blow up with all the items anyway, and if we don't do that, the pipe will simply have 7000+ objects in it and the same memory overflow issue will eventually occur. Maybe a few minutes later. Not to mention all the CPU time to figure out what to do with the 7000+ items.

What are your options?

 

[Celestialphoenix]

The fact that they drop items into the world at all is a world-destroying bug just waiting to happen.

In all honesty if you can legitimately break the world with that many dropped item entities then thats a very impressive feat. It's also entirely your fault for screwing up that badly to spew enough items that fast in the first place.

Its actually easier to break the world/servers with vanilla mechanics [such as exponential chickens] than dodgy piping.​

Yes its a potential problem, but fairly unlikely to manifest itself.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Do insertion pipes consider void pipes as a valid 'inventory'?

That said, TE's ducts had a visual indication for back stuffing. (The extraction point would turn red and there'd be a tool tip.)

For BC though, I'd rather it drop the items. Intelligent routing is in the hands of the user. Find the problem point and either fix it, or solve it. The first is simple via gates, that can tell when there's space and send a signal to get an item or two. Technically with pipe wire and timers, you could set it up so it gets three items slightly separated from one another. (Red wire into three gates with differently set timer>Autarchic gate which single pulses on each different wire signal color.)

Any chance of additional wire colors? Or some gate fancy-ness to detect multiple signals in coming on the same conditional? IE red and blue signals, instead of red or blue individually?

 

[trajing]

Okay, I'll be completely honest here: I was hyped for BC7. Then the BC7 beta came out when I was a bit burnt out from MC.
I haven't really tried it.
I'm now putting together a modpack (no, you can't have details. ) and I was going to put BC7 in, if only for development, to see what's new, and if it fit, keep it in.
Then I realized it was still in beta and decided not to bother because I don't know how stable the beta is.
After reading through this thread, I've decided I'll throw it in and see if I can work it out to fit in. Due to the core mechanic (of my modpack) being that you have to think, I was a bit iffy on how the pipes that I had were EnderIO and Thermal Dynamics pipes, which are nice and plug-and-play, and if you used them then you wouldn't be using 80% of the space I so kindly provided you with.
I think I'll end up disabling a bunch of the other-mod alternatives should it work out. I have to say that after reading your responses, I really like BC's design philosophy.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

WHAT OPTIONS!?

Let's see.

• Smart routing (see RP2): NO. This would make gates, insertion pipes and etc. much more laggy in terms of server performance, as the direction in the graph would have to be recalculated on every gate-related interaction. (Also, it would invalidate most of the fun with BuildCraft)
  
• Backstuffing: Not visible to the player. That's terrible design.
• Bouncing an item in pipes forever: More CPU and memory-intensive than dropped items. Yes.
• Allowing an easy overflow pickup path: We already do it - insertion pipes.
• BONUS EDIT! Rendering an item as "frozen" and waiting for an output to appear: It's a workaround, not a solution. Once >32 stacks are in the pipe, it will blow up with all the items anyway, and if we don't do that, the pipe will simply have 7000+ objects in it and the same memory overflow issue will eventually occur. Maybe a few minutes later. Not to mention all the CPU time to figure out what to do with the 7000+ items.

What are your options?

* deleting items instead of dropping them. Punish the player with resource negation, not with world corruption.

You are aggressively counter-attacking to an attack which does not exist. You are so focused on trying to 'defend' yourself from an alternate perspective that you are not hearing the actual point. You asked what could be changed about Buildcraft. I was trying to tell you. Your response from the gate was to immediately and forcefully harass, harangue, and attack anything I have to say. Therefore, I shall not attempt to any further. Good day.

 

[asiekierka]

* deleting items instead of dropping them. Punish the player with resource negation, not with world corruption.

You are aggressively counter-attacking to an attack which does not exist. You are so focused on trying to 'defend' yourself from an alternate perspective that you are not hearing the actual point. You asked what could be changed about Buildcraft. I was trying to tell you. Your response from the gate was to immediately and forcefully harass, harangue, and attack anything I have to say. Therefore, I shall not attempt to any further. Good day.

What? You're manipulating my words. Look at how I replied to everyone else and how I replied to you. What I'm attacking is misconceptions, not you. You have a wrong idea of what BuildCraft is, so I'm trying to correct you.

Also, deleting items? In that case, there is no visual indicator of something going completely wrong. And is it really that hard to put an insertion pipe next to a void pipe?

 

[buggirlexpres]

Alright, let's quiet down here. I know this is a topic many of us feel passionately about, but I also know it's possible to have a discussion without either side getting aggressive. Why don't we tone this down before I have to get out my whacking stick.​

 

[GreenZombie]

2. Stripes Pipes staying is SpaceToad's personal request, so they WILL stay that way. Also, try sending it an item pipe.

Surely it can be a block tho? It needs to be a block

 

[asiekierka]

Surely it can be a block tho? It needs to be a block

No. Pipe extension and retraction would be very awkward with just a block. (Also, this was explicitly forbidden by SpaceToad. Literally the only thing he forbade so I might as well go with it.)

 

[GreenZombie]

No. Pipe extension and retraction would be very awkward with just a block. (Also, this was explicitly forbidden by SpaceToad. Literally the only thing he forbade so I might as well go with it.)

This is a curious country: We like buildcraft because its pipes are not an automatic logistics/routing system. In no small part because we all - I think - object to the idea that a *pipe* can encapsulate that much complex behaviour.

Which brings us to the striped pipe specifically, and more generally the thing about buildcraft I find most immersion breaking: The pipe recipes - and the resulting behaviours - are just too damned magical. For me, any "pipe" with a selective behaviour, should incorporate at least one piston and comparator in the recipe. And should look perhaps more bulky than a plain pipe.

 

[asiekierka]

This is a curious country: We like buildcraft because its pipes are not an automatic logistics/routing system. In no small part because we all - I think - object to the idea that a *pipe* can encapsulate that much complex behaviour.

Which brings us to the striped pipe specifically, and more generally the thing about buildcraft I find most immersion breaking: The pipe recipes - and the resulting behaviours - are just too damned magical. For me, any "pipe" with a selective behaviour, should incorporate at least one piston and comparator in the recipe. And should look perhaps more bulky than a plain pipe.

The pipe recipes are supposed to be very simple and straightforward, that won't change. (All pipes have selective behaviour if you use gates.)

A stripes pipe really doesn't encapsulate complex behaviour. It's about as complex as a diamond pipe. I have some ideas to fix it, though.

 

[asiekierka]

* deleting items instead of dropping them. Punish the player with resource negation, not with world corruption.

Vanilla stacks items nowadays. If you somehow manage to get 7000 item entities dropped in the world and get memory corruption in 1.7.10, which requires that you drop 7000 entities in 60 seconds, I will give you a medal of some sort. Do not compare BC from 1.2.5 with BC from 1.7.10. Your complaints are completely irrational and set in the past, that is what bothers me so much.

 

[GreenZombie]

The pipe recipes are supposed to be very simple and straightforward, that won't change. (All pipes have selective behaviour if you use gates.)

I think there are a number of buildcraft players who would not mind, or even prefer, "harder" pipe recipes. Buildcrafts selling point is, it hasn't bent over backwards to become stupidly easy. "Better" pipe recipes fit that mandate well.

A stripes pipe really doesn't encapsulate complex behaviour. It's about as complex as a diamond pipe. I have some ideas to fix it, though.

It puts things out in the world. Or uses tools. That, to me, is way more complex than the capabilities of typical mundane pipes.

 

[asiekierka]

I think there are a number of buildcraft players who would not mind, or even prefer, "harder" pipe recipes. Buildcrafts selling point is, it hasn't bent over backwards to become stupidly easy. "Better" pipe recipes fit that mandate well.



It puts things out in the world. Or uses tools. That, to me, is way more complex than the capabilities of typical mundane pipes.

IC2 bent over backwards to become hard. Making things harder for the sake of becoming harder is not a great idea either.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

Is there any possibility of getting counters on gates, pipes that give a redstone signal when an item passes through (used to exist, I think as an Additional Object), and transport pipes that can be blocked on a redstone signal? Am just thinking in terms of letting specific numbers of items out of a chest, that sort of thing?