Dumb Modular Powersuit Tricks

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by KirinDave, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Memorian

    Memorian Member

    I dont think the mod need to balance out against the quantum suit, yes they are used for the same things, basic flight and armour, but once it gets balanced out against one thing another thing will pop up that it then need to be balanced against which will completely kill the first balance.
    Balance the mod for the curve you think fits best, if you want to make things harder and delay people getting power full to early add an assemply time for adding modules like steves cart does. So when ever you add something new to the armor, a new battery as an example make the the table take the armor for some time to install the new module. afterwards you can go back to the table and change the setting this shouldnt use up time since it would kill the experimentation part of the mod
     
  2. MachineMuse

    MachineMuse Modular Power Suits Dev FTB Mod Dev

    Nah, I don't believe in artificially extending playtime by adding 'wait periods'. Especially not the way Steve's Carts does it. I'm much more likely to make it so you need certain achievements to unlock different modules, or add in an actual gameplay component to building the modules.

    Later, though.

    Oh also: I don't have much input into FTB's configs for MPS. I tend to prefer not to be bothered about it since MPS is in so many packs now and modpack makers tend to know more of what the look and feel they are going for is. For example, Big Dig has a lot of the same mods as FTB Lite, but the mods are all configured in a different way because the goal of that pack is to encourage building and infrastructure in a survival mode setting rather than making everyone dump all their resources into manual or automated mining. Modpack makers are usually a lot more experienced with config files in general than average users as well. Even despite FTB's many errors relating to MPS, I'm sure they will get the hang of it soon.
     
    Yuka likes this.
  3. Jacobbelveder

    Jacobbelveder Member

    I like this mod alot, I'm not too interested in the whole balance issue, but then again I've never used gregtech, and I feel the IC2/TE recipes set a nice balance, the kinetic generator may be a bit OP, and could possibly be given a more expensive recipe. but honestly, this is my favourite mod, the modularity is awesome, and the progression curve feels just right. So well done on that :) The problem people seem to be having is more to do with the way GT changes the game, rather than any great problem with MPPS. as for dumb tricks again, the new railgun=AWESOME. Point at floor, and away we go, faster than the jetpack, even works underwater.

    edit...
    now this sounds epic :)
     
  4. MachineMuse

    MachineMuse Modular Power Suits Dev FTB Mod Dev

    Yeah, the railgun is an exception to that 'wait period' thing. It needs a cooldown time x.x
    Nothing major, just enough to not use it as a secondary rocket booster. (technically it works on the a similar principle to ion thrusters, though!)
     
  5. Memorian

    Memorian Member

    A thing I'd love to see in the mod, which might be hard to add is a more visual style in the addition of module. make people with glide added have a pair of glide wings on their back + points if those would fold out when they are in use, have the different jet packs show up on the armor, and change the visual style of the armor for different armor modules.
     
  6. MachineMuse

    MachineMuse Modular Power Suits Dev FTB Mod Dev

    Yeah we already have the model ready for that. We're just waiting on Forge to add one of the numerous custom armor renders that people have been submitting.
     
  7. Memorian

    Memorian Member

    Every time you post anything I got more in love with your mod
     
    ApSciLiara and Barbarian Kitten like this.
  8. Yuka

    Yuka Active Member

    Reading back to some posts saying how the maxed pick upgrade being slower than an actual pickaxe, I recall seeing something like this, even with the Axe/ Shovel.
    Seems like some things like regular stone/ dirt/ wood are indeed being broken at a faster rate, while gravel, or basalt/ marble and ceertain types of woods seem to break at a "regular" rate (as if it was a stone/ iron tool), so maybe it has to do with the different speed it takes to break different blocks normally?

    Also, the kinetic generator seems fine to me, mainly since I have no other way to power the suit, it doesn't seem too fast so that I NEVER run out of power, but not slow enough that I have to run 15 miles every 10 seconds. :p

    As it is now, I still need to pace myself to not overuse it, a nerf would make it almost useless.

    Btw, just gotta say, really love he mod, specially as someone who doesn't use IC2, plus this is even more fun than the quantum suit, rather than "insta" demi-immortality as soon as you make it, you have to slowly work your way up to a strong, yet not invincible suit, and with lots of customization and (what I believe to be) fair costs.
     
  9. brujon

    brujon Active Member

    What "whim" was i talking about? What i'm talking about is that much of the problem revolving around how MPS might or might not be OP is because we don't have a clear-cut comparison point to balance it out against. Was that me being entitled, or was that a valid critique? You said you were going to made the recipes configurable. How does that change what i said? We still don't have a clear-cut comparison point to see whether the armor is balanced against what it's supposed to be balanced against, or if it's too cheap, or too expensive. Again, is MPS an addon to IC2? To Gregtech? To TE? Is it a stand-alone mod? And are the recipes really equivalent when inside a modpack? Which recipe should be preferred?

    Let me rephrase what i said as a question. What is MPS aimed at being balanced against, when you unlock the top tier options? Because right now, that's what most people seem to be confused about, including me. I simply don't know if MPS is supposed to be more expensive than a GraviSuit, or QuantumArmor, when all of the upgrades are applied. Having so many recipes is also counter productive. It helps obscure the balancing point, and we still don't know which of the recipes is the "proper" or "intended" recipe for MPS, because it hasn't been defined as this or that.

    When a mod adds a block, and it has a single recipe, you can instantly see how expensive it actually is, and it helps when you compare what that block adds, with what a similar block added from another mod does. As an example, the discussion revolving around RC Iron Tanks and Xycraft Tanks. Most agree that Xycraft tanks simply made Iron Tanks obsolete, because they're so much cheaper. You can make them out of anything, whereas Iron Tanks take a heck of a lot of iron.

    Am i asking you to rewrite your mod? No. Am i asking your for some unreasonable thing like adding in Transformer/Gundam capabilities to the Power Armor? No. What i'm asking is for a clearer indication of where you, the mod author, thinks the cost/power of MPS should fall into. What i'm asking is for you, the mod author, to define the nature of MPS, what it is. Independently of any other mods being installed or not. Because when we have that, then proper discussions about MPS being op or not can happen.
     
  10. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    MPS has vanilla recipies. So that means it is designed around vanilla. The other mods enchance it. MPS is not, to me thought I doing have as much experience tinkering as Kirin does, OP. It is a fun mod that is stil evolving.
     
  11. Guswut

    Guswut Popular Member

    As RetroGamer1224 stated, it has vanilla crafts and does not need to interface with any other mod, so it is, in fact, standalone.

    As such, like ALL standalone mods, balance in regards to other mods is not an attribute of the mods, but of the modpack creators.
     
  12. brujon

    brujon Active Member

    It doesn't mean that it's designed around Vanilla. In fact, if playing with just Vanilla, your only way to charge your tools is by using the Solar/Kinetic generator, since MPS doesn't add it's own form of energy generation or charging pads/stations. MPS was definitely designed to be played with other mods(Especially IC2), the added Vanilla recipe is just a bonus so that it can still be played standalone if someone really wants to. When playing with mods, using the Vanilla recipe makes MPS the most OP thing ever. MPS was definitely not balanced with Vanilla in mind, it was balanced with other mods in mind. My question is, which mod, and how, precisely?
     
  13. Guswut

    Guswut Popular Member

    That is not the question you asked. You asked if the mod was an addon, or a standalone mod. The answer is that it is a standalone mod, and all points of balance need to be attributed to the modpack creators, not the mod authors.

    Thankfully, most mod authors give you the ability to tweak your balance to change things that allow them to interface smoother.
     
    RetroGamer1224 likes this.
  14. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    Lemme be more clear. I asked MachineMuse, because I am looking to get into modding, where she started when she was designing MPS. She told me vanilla was her base. UE was the first set of mods she joined due to ease of use (MM please forgive me if I am wrong). So Vanilla IS the standard.
     
  15. brujon

    brujon Active Member

    That was not the only question i asked. I also asked to what specifically is MPS balanced against. And i'll say again, is it really a Standalone mod when you can't charge your suit in any other way other than running or standing in the sun? It seems to me, at least, that it was desgined more with compatibility with other tech mods in mind, and the Vanilla recipe was just a bonus.

    And discussing semantics will lead nowhere. My question may be phrased as such, but the intent is most definitely clear, since i'm inquiring about design choices and options, and trying to figure out which the balancing poiint was, before judging the mod.
     
  16. KirinDave

    KirinDave Over-Achiever

    Does anyone else feel awkward having an elaborate argument about the mod author's intent when she posts here regularly? Protip: even if you don't, say you do.
     
  17. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    I do. I have a PM where I asked her but I don't want to quote it as it is a frickin PM.
     
  18. Guswut

    Guswut Popular Member

    I actually find it amusing, which is the main reason I posted, as I remember situations where I've been in MachineMuse's position, and I gained entertainment out of such things. Of course, that's a subjective view which may not be correct in this situation.

    I mean, the protip is right!
     
  19. MachineMuse

    MachineMuse Modular Power Suits Dev FTB Mod Dev

    Wow.. then this is going to blow your traditional little mind: mps isn't designed to be balanced against any one mod in particular. It's designed to break this convention of everything being pre-packaged magical blocks and items with recipes spoon-fed to you by NEI, making the only actual gameplay component the resource-gathering. It's designed to put more power, and more responsibility, in the hands of the users. The way it is now, each recipe set is balanced around what the fans and/or authors of each mod have expressed. I can do something with, 'iridium plates are too much for the advanced plating, can you make them cost tungstensteel instead?' 'Yes I agree' 'me too'. I can't do anything with 'well i'm putting away the powersuit because it's not keeping up'.

    I'm not going to limit the mod's capabilities just so you can wrap your head around it. Why don't you focus on the recipes *you* use and ignore the others?
     
    Roady, baw179, KirinDave and 7 others like this.
  20. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    Machine, I am wondering if you ever thought of adding in things like a different type shot fired from the power tool. Like a heat beam or ice beam or (fill in MegaMan type Buster Cannon shots)?
     

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