Why don't more mods put effort into surviving MC updates

[l3lackCalamity]

For all the praise the vocal community gives mods whose goal is efficiency, I find it somewhat sad nobody seems to care for the longevity of their worlds. I realize that a lot of you are direwolf styled power players but for the regular joes(and jills), constantly having to reset worlds isn't enjoyable.

Back on the 1.5 -> 1.6 update the argument was that forge's new fluid system would make updates impossible thereby forcing world resets. Now the argument is that the transition from blocks ids to strings makes updating worlds impossible.

Forestry, Railcraft, Build-craft and some blocks of Thaumcraft all have managed smooth updates from 1.4 -> 1.5 -> 1.6 ->1.7; updates are not impossible.

Instead of focusing purely on tick efficiency or inventing the next big ore doubling mechanic, wouldn't it be nice if more focus was spent on backwards compatibility? I can't help but feel as though longevity is where the real talent shines.



On another note, does anyone know if MCedit can be used to swap old ids to strings? I'd really like to salvage what I can of my world. What about any other tools? Would it be possible to have 1.6 cofh's regen feature convert all Thermal Expansion ore to stone? In that case I could then use 1.7 cofh to regen Thermal Foundation ore, right?

 

[Yusunoha]

mod developers could do that if Mojang didn't completely mess up the code with each update

 

[l3lackCalamity]

mod developers could do that if Mojang didn't completely mess up the code with each update

As I said, very complicated mods such as railcraft, forestry, buildcraft and the non changing parts of thaumcraft have been updated through several versions now. Blaming Mojang isn't fair. Forge for 1.6 wouldn't have warned us about mods that weren't registered to upgrade if nothing was upgradeable.

 

[madnewmy]

sounds like a question @Reika could answer for you

btw, do you know anything about the modders at all? just a question like that...

 

[Loufmier]

As I said, very complicated mods such as railcraft, forestry, buildcraft and the non changing parts of thaumcraft have been updated through several versions now. Blaming Mojang isn't fair. Forge for 1.6 wouldn't have warned us about mods that weren't registered to upgrade if nothing was upgradeable.

may i ask how much do you know about how writing mods for minecraft works?

i personally don't know anything, but for me it looks like this:
you are a worker at construction site owned by mojang. they gave you a place where you can build and a hammer(current code) to build with.
you start your project and everything seems fine, but then comes mojang, takes your hammer away and gives you a handsaw(code update).
i highly doubt it's easy to continue without tools you're used to, so it's simpler to just start a new project with new tools.

 

[Democretes]

...backwards compatibility...

I'm going to stop you right here. I can clearly tell you know nothing about code or how mods work, so I'm going to explain it to you bluntly.

Say your taking classes at school. Your principal wants you to keep up with previous years of teaching, so you have to take those classes as well to keep refreshing. Hence, you waste a lot of time.

Same works with mods. Mojang changes code each version, Forge changes code each version. As a modder, I'd have to keep up with each version's code and edit my code in order to continuously backport it. This is a massive waste of time. If you think any modder is going to do that for a few people who want to keep their worlds every update, you are a fucking loonatic crazy.

 

[Reika]

On top of all this, a lot of mods do major rewrites or make major registry changes between Minecraft versions. Such things are world-killing no matter when you do them, and never doing them is simply not an option.

 

[Lordlundar]

As I said, very complicated mods such as railcraft, forestry, buildcraft and the non changing parts of thaumcraft have been updated through several versions now. Blaming Mojang isn't fair. Forge for 1.6 wouldn't have warned us about mods that weren't registered to upgrade if nothing was upgradeable.

What you call "non-changing parts" is only unchanging on the surface level, the code for those parts have been rewritten several times over. I'm pretty sure one could look at the supposedly unchanged parts in buildcraft from a 1.2.5 version and while on the surface look identical when you look at the code you wouldn't be able to recognize them.

Basically for what you ask to happen (ie the mod authors NOT playing catch up) would require one of two things:

1. The staff at mojang releasing "mod builds" exclusively for mod authors to prepare for. Given the rapid dynamic building of the base game (the 1.7 version was a doozy for modding), it's not practical to do so, to say nothing of the information security issues which can kill a company if not handled perfectly.

2. The mod authors become psychic, which is at best absurd for obvious reasons.

 

[l3lackCalamity]

I'm going to stop you right here. I can clearly tell you know nothing about code or how mods work, so I'm going to explain it to you bluntly.

Say your taking classes at school. Your principal wants you to keep up with previous years of teaching, so you have to take those classes as well to keep refreshing. Hence, you waste a lot of time.

Same works with mods. Mojang changes code each version, Forge changes code each version. As a modder, I'd have to keep up with each version's code and edit my code in order to continuously backport it. This is a massive waste of time. If you think any modder is going to do that for a few people who want to keep their worlds every update, you are a fucking loonatic crazy.

That's funny, I thought I just mentioned several big mods that do just that? No, I don't know anything about code but I do know that when a dev clearly states in a lets play video that they're going to try make updating work, and it does, that it's not impossible. I imagine it's very very difficult, but as I said, accomplishing a task so many believe impossible is impressive. I wouldn't expect anyone to put extra work into making their mods work unless they enjoyed the processes, but it does show dedication to work. Well respected dedication.

On top of all this, a lot of mods do major rewrites or make major registry changes between Minecraft versions. Such things are world-killing no matter when you do them, and never doing them is simply not an option.

Then I suppose it's very hard and do-able by only a few. For curiosity sake, how is it that something like railcraft and forestry have managed to make it so far through different versions of minecraft? Back in the day I remember being told to place all machine blocks in chests during updates? Not arguing, just curious how some do it?

 

[Cptqrk]

*waits for this guy to post his mods, that are backwards/forwards compatible before passing judgment*

Still waiting.....

I know nothing about how to actually code for MC, but I do know that every minecraft version has been a beast for modders.. (hehe.. beast... feed the... wait.. where was I?)
Hell, look at java itself. The language that MC and mods run on suggest that you remove older versions because they can cause compatibility issues....
So a mod, written in java for 1.2 MC would have to be different compared to a mod written in java for 1.6 MC.

 

[l3lackCalamity]

*waits for this guy to post his mods, that are backwards/forwards compatible before passing judgment*

Still waiting.....

I know nothing about how to actually code for MC, but I do know that every minecraft version has been a beast for modders.. (hehe.. beast... feed the... wait.. where was I?)
Hell, look at java itself. The language that MC and mods run on suggest that you remove older versions because they can cause compatibility issues....
So a mod, written in java for 1.2 MC would have to be different compared to a mod written in java for 1.6 MC.

Why should I have to code in order to ask a genuine question? I see devs who put effort into making updates work and I see those who don't. I'm asking why more don't try; no coding experience required to question, just a brain. If it's because they lack the skill, motivation, time, effort, or their mod are just too complex then those are all genuine answers. Making sweeping generalizations that it is completely impossible when it clearly is not is a lazy response.

 

[Cptqrk]

Yet you make sweeping generalizations with no qualms about it.

To imply that modders are lazy or that they lack skill, tips your hand to what you already think of mod makers.

Oh, I always ask to see people's code when ever they say "but it's sooooo easy to...." If you don't code, you don't know. I don't know how to code in java, but I have done C++ and fuck that shit. /Respect modders

 

[l3lackCalamity]

Yet you make sweeping generalizations with no qualms about it.

To imply that modders are lazy or that they lack skill, tips your hand to what you already think of mod makers.

Oh, I always ask to see people's code when ever they say "but it's sooooo easy to...." If you don't code, you don't know. I don't know how to code in java, but I have done C++ and fuck that shit. /Respect modders

What aren't you understanding here? I see and use mods that don't require world resets therefore I disprove the generalization that they don't exist. I did not call modders lazy, you did that on your own. However, I do admit to calling the action of responding with a generalization lazy. Especially when the generalization is false.

Also, I never said it was easy. In fact I said I imagined that it was very hard.

 

[Cptqrk]

If it's because they lack the skill, motivation, time, effort, or their mod are just too complex then those are all genuine answers. Making sweeping generalizations that it is completely impossible when it clearly is not is a lazy response.

Quoted to point out you suggested these reasons for not doing what you want them to do.


Some mods do allow you to keep your old worlds, yes. That is because the world gen hasn't changed, and the things they do are not totally dependant on Mojang's code.
Once you get into meatier mods, ones that really mess with the way the game works, there will be map resets when Mojang does the same.

 

[immibis]

mod developers could do that if Mojang didn't completely mess up the code with each update

s/Mojang/Forge/ for both 1.5->1.6 and 1.6->1.7.

 

[Reika]

s/Mojang/Forge/ for both 1.5->1.6 and 1.6->1.7.

Ah yes, our coding nemesis, the dreaded "s".

 

[Azzanine]

I can explain this even simpler without reference to code or coding.

They simply do not mod for you or any player, most modders do it as an intellectual side project for them selves. They do it for fun, if making things backwards compatible isn't rewarding then they wont do it. Your enjoyment is just a welcomed side effect of their modding labor.

Modders don't put the effort in becasue they don't have to and probably don't want to. Plus why begrudge them the opportunity to spend their time on the newer shinier things?

 

[buggirlexpres]

Why should I have to code in order to ask a genuine question? I see devs who put effort into making updates work and I see those who don't. I'm asking why more don't try; no coding experience required to question, just a brain. If it's because they lack the skill, motivation, time, effort, or their mod are just too complex then those are all genuine answers. Making sweeping generalizations that it is completely impossible when it clearly is not is a lazy response.

m8, did you not notice all the modders responding? They have a "Mod Developer" tag. And they explained exactly why worlds cannot be saved.

 

[pilgrim143]

Don't argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Democretes]

m8, did you not notice all the modders responding? They have a "Mod Developer" tag. And they explained exactly why worlds cannot be saved.

And for the record, I too am a mod dev. Just no tag.