The 2 alvearies with fastest production enough for a 36 HP boiler(one might even be enough but I wanted to be sure I had an excess) is with the latest version of extra bee.
Where is the line between contraption and exploit?
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The 2 alvearies with fastest production enough for a 36 HP boiler(one might even be enough but I wanted to be sure I had an excess) is with the latest version of extra bee.
If it feels too easy, then to me its cheap and an exploit and either needs nerfing, or fixing. I just dont feel like I accomplished something, and thats not where the fun in this game is. Thats why on my next playthrough I wont be making a supersuit or using the Vajra or using as much solar.
This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for. There are some that view the balance in the initial cost of a system. Others view it in the amount of effort they spend in the setup. Others draw their own line across the mods.
Quite interesting. Personally, I'd probably go along the effort line, which tends to be the reason that I rage quit a world when a nuke explodes or something. The amount of effort needed to get back to that stage makes me annoyed.
Quite interesting. Personally, I'd probably go along the effort line, which tends to be the reason that I rage quit a world when a nuke explodes or something. The amount of effort needed to get back to that stage makes me annoyed.
Well, effort vs output is a very good way of judging how balanced something is in the long term, but many forget that the amount of effort doesn't always reflect the actual difficulty of doing something. For example, Refined Bees. They used to produce BC Fuel, and did so at a decent rate. The whole Oily Line produced Oil at a OK rate, but Refined Bees were a good thing to work towards. Then they got nerf'd. Many liked the Refined Bees because they produced Fuel, which was the point of them.
I disagree with the change that makes them produce Bio Fuel(it's not a petroleum product at all, which is what bugs me), but that's as far as it goes with me.(mostly because I never got a chance to test them and form my own opinion)
They were very good, producing a lot of oil and fuel if bred properly(or if you used Extra Bee's Machines to make them better), enough to fuel a max size HP boiler. But that took a lot of work.
Though if Binnie nerf'd them because he didn't like the output, and not from community pressure, then I will hold my piece on the matter. Just bugs me that they produce Biofuel instead of actual Fuel.
I disagree with the change that makes them produce Bio Fuel(it's not a petroleum product at all, which is what bugs me), but that's as far as it goes with me.(mostly because I never got a chance to test them and form my own opinion)
They were very good, producing a lot of oil and fuel if bred properly(or if you used Extra Bee's Machines to make them better), enough to fuel a max size HP boiler. But that took a lot of work.
Though if Binnie nerf'd them because he didn't like the output, and not from community pressure, then I will hold my piece on the matter. Just bugs me that they produce Biofuel instead of actual Fuel.
To me a contraption is something fun to design and if possible to watch (hence why I rather use pipe than enderchest. On the other hand an exploit is something that render the game too easy(and therefore is not fun to play). That's why no matter what the cost are in term of balance, I won't use solar.
The whole pumping the lava of a mystcraft lava sea age is an exploit unless I do it in an original manner and that it doesn't stop me from doing other thing for power. That's why I don't mind direwolf new frame machine on forgecraft. Doing something cheap is not an exploit if yo do it the hard way.
And the whole IC² scrap to power is only easy because you can move scrap and generate cobble automatically with other mod.
The whole pumping the lava of a mystcraft lava sea age is an exploit unless I do it in an original manner and that it doesn't stop me from doing other thing for power. That's why I don't mind direwolf new frame machine on forgecraft. Doing something cheap is not an exploit if yo do it the hard way.
And the whole IC² scrap to power is only easy because you can move scrap and generate cobble automatically with other mod.
There is no difference between an author recognizing an imbalance themselves, and being convinced of one by persuasive argument.
In general, authors care about balance, while the vocal "ain't no such thing as OP" users restart worlds ona lightning basis.
I see an exploit like staying behind Arthas in the next to last dungeon before ICC before they fixed it. It made the whole end of the instance laughable and, to me, not enjoyable. Of course, to play devils advocate, some games an exploit is needed. Anyone old enough to remember NES should remember how games were, shall we say, omgwtfbbwsauce hard in some cases. Ikari warriors anyone? Or Castlevania 2 where with holy water one can beat Drac with no damage. Yeah sometimes that is needed.
I decide if something is worth it based on how hard it was to make; an infinite closed-circuit power system SOUNDS op (and in the case of solar panels it is) but if it was made from an SS soul shard spawning zombies, which die in quicksand (prevents xp lag) so that I can centrifuge the flesh, get methane, use a liquid transposer to turn the methane into a liquid and send it into a tank, then use said methane to power the whole setup, I consider that balanced because of the amount of time it took me to make.
When I was worse at the game I would use the water-bucket-in-watermill trick or maybe the turtle-cutting-down-Redwood doohicky, i'm better at the game now and I consider than not difficult enough to warrant free energy, when I get better at the game something like the methane setup will seem simple to me, so I might make a system using a chicken farm and some contraption to harvest the unholy noise that they make and turn it into sweet, sweet electricity.
After all, isn't the point of FTB to automate as much as you want of your world?
To me, there is a huge difference between having a block that created 512 eu/t *cough*ultimatehybridsolarpanel*cough* and an awesome, but bulky, system that I made myself which took a ton of work, so that at the end, I can look at my full MFSU and think "I earned it".
When I was worse at the game I would use the water-bucket-in-watermill trick or maybe the turtle-cutting-down-Redwood doohicky, i'm better at the game now and I consider than not difficult enough to warrant free energy, when I get better at the game something like the methane setup will seem simple to me, so I might make a system using a chicken farm and some contraption to harvest the unholy noise that they make and turn it into sweet, sweet electricity.
After all, isn't the point of FTB to automate as much as you want of your world?
To me, there is a huge difference between having a block that created 512 eu/t *cough*ultimatehybridsolarpanel*cough* and an awesome, but bulky, system that I made myself which took a ton of work, so that at the end, I can look at my full MFSU and think "I earned it".
i would define that as gameplay. simply going through the motions of crafting an I Win!!! button, even an "expensive" one, is not gameplay.
I dare day even coming up with a concept of an "I Win" button in a sandbox game is absurd. You can win just by playing creative and builind a 3x3x4 hours ya know.
Starting in creative or switching into creative mode is too simple of a victory condition.
All games are based around the concept of progress, even if they utilize no progress or no defined progress system as their progress system. As such, all games require an "I win!!!" button to the extent designed into the game and fomulated via the player's mentality. For some people, that means making massive structures, and for others it means creating complicated devices. Some people view it as the endgame roll of playing on a large community, whereas others just call it after they've killed the EnderDragon.
Good points Gus. I, myself, don't really see making a massive structure "I Win" but that doesn't mean jim bob sees it as such. ^_^
The latest project I've completed in our server is designing and building a fully automated factory to turn UU-matter into HV solar arrays. In what way is that not gameplay?
In the same way that those insane people that go and play on PvP servers isn't "gameplay" to someone that does not like PvP so they subjectively disclude the entire selection of possible game elements in that area. Yay for subjective silliness!
It does feel good to have Gus back.
I try to dabble in everything. Like I will try PVP just to. I want to do epic builds. I like my semi automated SMP set up. Heck one day I will do an adventure map. Yay me for being accepting and yet not giving a gif because I can sit on a bed doing nothing as I survived Minecraft
I try to dabble in everything. Like I will try PVP just to. I want to do epic builds. I like my semi automated SMP set up. Heck one day I will do an adventure map. Yay me for being accepting and yet not giving a gif because I can sit on a bed doing nothing as I survived Minecraft
This is pretty much my approach. I'm not about to shy away from a fun project just because it reeks of exploitation.
Probably when it becomes so good that there is no compelling reason to ever do it any other way.