Werewolf Organisation: Electric Boogaloo Redux

[Bigdbigd03]

without being crazy game-breaking.

AHEM!!!

 

[RealKC]

Today I present you I dared my best friend ruin my life - Mafia Edition.

 

[erindalc]

Today I present you I dared my best friend ruin my life - Mafia Edition.

This is all my fault.

I introduced him to /r/nosleep.

 

[RealKC]

This is all my fault.

I introduced him to /r/nosleep.

Thank you for that!

 

[VictiniX888]

Today I present you I dared my best friend ruin my life - Mafia Edition.

At first I was confused by all the new names in David's team that I've never heard of, even though I've read the entire series.
And then I learnt there's series 2 now.

I have a question regarding David King: what do you mean by manipulate? Does David control the person he manipulates or something?

 

[VikeStep]

I recently played a game on MU called Poisonous Mafia. I really enjoyed the setup. Might be nice to run here as well:
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/2816-Poisonous-Mafia-7-15-16

 

[RealKC]

At first I was confused by all the new names in David's team that I've never heard of, even though I've read the entire series.
And then I learnt there's series 2 now.

I have a question regarding David King: what do you mean by manipulate? Does David control the person he manipulates or something?

Yes, he controls that person. I'll make it more clear in the role sheet.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

Yes, he controls that person. I'll make it more clear in the role sheet.

1. How exactly does 'controlling' work?
2. Isn't the FBI Agent just a vanilla villager?

 

[RealKC]

1. How exactly does 'controlling' work?
2. Isn't the FBI Agent just a vanilla villager?

1. Say Pyure is David and Vike is the one who's controlled, Pyure and Vike will communicate through a PM with an alt, Pyure tells Vike what to do, however Pyure cannot ask who he is(he knows that he talks with an alt, but does not know who the person behind it is) or what role he has, but can tell him to use his power on RJS, for example.
2. I'll make some modifications to make him no longer be just a vanilla villager

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

1. Say Pyure is David and Vike is the one who's controlled, Pyure and Vike will communicate through a PM with an alt, Pyure tells Vike what to do, however Pyure cannot ask who he is(he knows that he talks with an alt, but does not know who the person behind it is) or what role he has, but can tell him to use his power on RJS, for example.
2. I'll make some modifications to make him no longer be just a vanilla villager

1. To what extent does this control work? For example, can the controller tell them exactly what to say?
2. Can the controlled person tell anyone that they're being controlled?

 

[RJS]

Kill la Kill, really? ...

• So the auction is pretty much shooting in the dark? As everyone will be placing their bids in their role convo instead of in the main thread this way. Well, that would prevent the wolves from standing out for saving their money for the black market of course...
• Hmm, maybe, instead everyone should start with 10 credits on average, with a standard deviation of 1 credit? Just to get some deviation in the game early on?
  As such, one very unlucky player could start with 7 credits, while some super duper lucky guy could start with 15?
  
• Also, maybe there should be some random priority queue on the auctions, instead of the rule that people who bid overbid their capital in total can not compete in any auction.
  Example:
  • Person 1 has 15 credits.
    
  • He bids 8 credits on item 1, 2 and 3 (This would be very stupid)
  • The random priority of these items is 1, then 2, then 3
  • He loses auction 1, he still has 15 credits left
  • He wins auction 2, gaining item 2, he now has 7 credits left
    
  • He can not compete in the auction for item 3 anymore, since he doesn't have 8 credits anymore
• Speaking of lovers. I'd like the idea of adding love potions as a one-time auctionable item.
• Shouldn't the handgun return part of its cost if it actually kills a Killer (if town) or a town (if Killer)?

Oh and I like the idea. It's something very different than I'm wont to. Wonder how it'll turn out.

1. Basically I hadn't thought of making it public. Could be more fun. I'll consider it.
2. Not a huge fan of random deviation, simply because a lot of power comes from the starting funds. Killers starting with more or less could unbalance the game somewhat.
3. The point of the overbid rule is to force people to bid within their means. Thinking about it in the context of a public vote it also adds some interesting balance as you have to decide whether to bluff vote to try and force higher bids, say if somebody is really desperate for a particular file, or whether to bid within your means. Setting up a priority would be an alternative though, and I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this.
4. I love that way of adding it in. Consider it included!
5. Nope. I might consider having financial rewards in line with those currently in place for successful gun kills though.

I predict the wolves will snap up each and every information file that comes to the market.

Except they have 10 coins between them. Realistically speaking, they can only outbid the town as a collective every few turns, and doing so denies them access to some of the more powerful items from the black market.

I like it! Cool concept. The auction's a new twist without being crazy game-breaking.

Questions:

1. "All players will start with 10 gold coins, with killers sharing the same number of coins.": Could you clarify how many coins the killers have? Does each killer start with ten coins, or do the killers as a whole have a pool of ten coins?
2. "...whilst Killers earn coins for each successful kill.": How many coins per kill?
3. Data Hack: Can the killers alter an information file that's up for auction that day? Can they alter a file that hasn't shown up at all yet?
4. Design question: Why's it a silent auction (through role convos) instead of a public one (in the main thread)? You could get a lot of information from how people bid.
5. Want me to add you to the queue?

1. Sorry, unclear phrasing here. Rather than individual accounts like Innocents, the Killers have a joint account that starts with ten coins. So coins by killers are spent collectively as it were - bids from any of them all draw from the same pool and...yeah, with multiple players bidding from the same pool that priority idea of Robijn's might be handy. Think I may need to consider the mechanics a little more before this starts.
2. Herpaderp. 5 coins per kill.
3. They can only hack a file that has yet to be revealed. Files up for auction cannot be altered.
4. As I said above, didn't think about a public auction. There's definitely a lot that could be read from how players bid, and I guess it won't necessarily hurt the killers with their lower starting funds because they can always bluff-bid to hide that. Think that, along with the priority system, is something I might change.
5. Oh yes.

 

[RJS]

1. Say Pyure is David and Vike is the one who's controlled, Pyure and Vike will communicate through a PM with an alt, Pyure tells Vike what to do, however Pyure cannot ask who he is(he knows that he talks with an alt, but does not know who the person behind it is) or what role he has, but can tell him to use his power on RJS, for example.
2. I'll make some modifications to make him no longer be just a vanilla villager

The danger of this is that Vike can then drop seriously heavy hints as to who David is. You can put rules in preventing that, but at that point it becomes incredibly unfun for the controlled player, as what they can post, how they can vote and how they use their power is completely out of their control.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

1. Basically I hadn't thought of making it public. Could be more fun. I'll consider it.
2. Not a huge fan of random deviation, simply because a lot of power comes from the starting funds. Killers starting with more or less could unbalance the game somewhat.
3. The point of the overbid rule is to force people to bid within their means. Thinking about it in the context of a public vote it also adds some interesting balance as you have to decide whether to bluff vote to try and force higher bids, say if somebody is really desperate for a particular file, or whether to bid within your means. Setting up a priority would be an alternative though, and I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this.
4. I love that way of adding it in. Consider it included!
5. Nope. I might consider having financial rewards in line with those currently in place for successful gun kills though.



Except they have 10 coins between them. Realistically speaking, they can only outbid the town as a collective every few turns, and doing so denies them access to some of the more powerful items from the black market.


1. Sorry, unclear phrasing here. Rather than individual accounts like Innocents, the Killers have a joint account that starts with ten coins. So coins by killers are spent collectively as it were - bids from any of them all draw from the same pool and...yeah, with multiple players bidding from the same pool that priority idea of Robijn's might be handy. Think I may need to consider the mechanics a little more before this starts.
3. They can only hack a file that has yet to be revealed. Files up for auction cannot be altered.
4. As I said above, didn't think about a public auction. There's definitely a lot that could be read from how players bid, and I guess it won't necessarily hurt the killers with their lower starting funds because they can always bluff-bid to hide that. Think that, along with the priority system, is something I might change.
5. Oh yes.

I am viewing this game as a fixed version of Real's game. I love it.

 

[Robijnvogel]

The danger of this is that Vike can then drop seriously heavy hints as to who David is. You can put rules in preventing that, but at that point it becomes incredibly unfun for the controlled player, as what they can post, how they can vote and how they use their power is completely out of their control.

What if David uses an alt as well?

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

I am viewing this game as a fixed version of Real's game. I love it.

The one where you could buy stuff, that is.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

What if David uses an alt as well?

Still not fun for the controlled player.

 

[RJS]

What if David uses an alt as well?

That's a solution, albeit a bit of a messy one.

Realistically it all depends on the degree of control David has. If it's just over night abilities, one could repurpose the witch mechanics from ToS (target one player to control, then select a player to be their target, controlled person is informed that they were controlled. If the control includes votes and posts, then it needs to be balanced by some way to break the control because at that point the controlled player may as well not exist.

EDIT: To add to this, in one of goreae's games I randomly got an item called the shrunken head, forcing me to vote for a player that was specified by goreae each day. I could not reveal the existance of the head, nor its power over me. However, if I were to be lynched, the head would save me from death and move on to somebody else. I'm not saying it has to be that mechanic, but if the control is absolute then there must be some way for the controlled player to fight against it.

 

[RealKC]

1. To what extent does this control work? For example, can the controller tell them exactly what to say?
2. Can the controlled person tell anyone that they're being controlled?

1. David can tell them what they should post, they don't have to exactly post that.
2. Only to Zander.

The danger of this is that Vike can then drop seriously heavy hints as to who David is. You can put rules in preventing that, but at that point it becomes incredibly unfun for the controlled player, as what they can post, how they can vote and how they use their power is completely out of their control.

I see what you're saying there, I'll probably do what Robin said and use an alt.

I remember there being another game with a role similar to David. M's FMA game with Lust. How did he fix the problem of it being not fun for the controlled player?

BTW the posts, so many posts! D:

 

[RJS]

1. David can tell them what they should post, they don't have to exactly post that.
2. Only to Zander.

I see what you're saying there, I'll probably do what Robin said and use an alt.

I remember there being another game with a role similar to David. M's FMA game with Lust. How did he fix the problem of it being not fun for the controlled player?

BTW the posts, so many posts! D:

So what stops them from completely ignoring what is said and posting something completely different?

 

[RealKC]

So what stops them from completely ignoring what is said and posting something completely different?

I'm starting to think that David shouldn't have control over the posts and votes because that way he could learn the identity of the player.