Werewolf Game 2 Game Thread

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PeggleFrank

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He's extending the time until Eunomiac gets back. Considering there aren't many people left, it shouldn't be too bad. It would be a downer if the game ended because of a GM smiting (Not that Eunomiac would end the game if he died)
 
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dgdas9

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He's extending the time until Eunomiac gets back. Considering there aren't many people left, it shouldn't be too bad. It would be a downer if the game ended because of a GM smiting (Not that Eunomiac would end the game if he died)

Maybe he would...
 

Eunomiac

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Crap, guys, I'm only on page 16 (Night 4 results), but I'm hustling out a HUGE apology: My net went dead immediately before I went on a camping trip over the long weekend (I live in Wasaga Beach on Mars, where internet can be unreliable). So I've been panicking all weekend that I screwed up the game. Even worse, I left my browser and tabs open, so when my net came back online over the weekend, it looked like I'd returned and was ignoring everyone.

Okay, not saying another word until I catch up -- I just realized I could be dead and would be breaking several rules, but being as this is an OOC post, I hope ICountFrom0 will be gentle. Again, terribly, terribly sorry!
 

Staxed

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Crap, guys, I'm only on page 16 (Night 4 results), but I'm hustling out a HUGE apology: My net went dead immediately before I went on a camping trip over the long weekend (I live in Wasaga Beach on Mars, where internet can be unreliable). So I've been panicking all weekend that I screwed up the game. Even worse, I left my browser and tabs open, so when my net came back online over the weekend, it looked like I'd returned and was ignoring everyone.

Okay, not saying another word until I catch up -- I just realized I could be dead and would be breaking several rules, but being as this is an OOC post, I hope ICountFrom0 will be gentle. Again, terribly, terribly sorry!


I'll get out the whip

but yeah, no worries man...life happens
 

Eunomiac

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Okay, caught up. (And you guys are too awesome. I very much didn't deserve special treatment like that, but at the end of the game I agree that a GM time-smite would have been unsatisfying for everyone. Let me jump right in.) Apologies in advance for a wall of text; at least I used paragraphs and bullet lists. And there's some juicy speculation in here, promise.

I am very, very surprised. ICount, you are running one of the most exciting games of Werewolf I've played on a forum, and that's saying something. I've been having a blast, and this recent wrinkle is evidence that you really thought these roles and their interactions through. So muchas kudos.

Anyways: I can think of only three possible explanations for what's happened---and the most likely one, to me at least, is going to throw everything into chaos. But before I drop that speculative bombshell, let's review the evidence.

First, I can explain how GPuzzle died: I targeted him on Night 3 with my Drunkard's Mimic ability, copying his power to night-kill. On Night 4, I used it on him, killing him with his own power. Those in the Villager Bloc will be able to confirm that (I described my plan twice, at posts 4 and 8, and the results were as expected).

With Jess revealed as the Survivor, this leaves our current "best intelligence" regarding surviving players and teams as:

TEAM VILLAGER:
  • dgdas9 - Villager
  • Eunomiac - Drunkard
  • Staxed - Villager
  • the_j485 - Villager
  • Jess887cp - Survivor (I'm assuming this is a villager role?)
TEAM WOLF:
  • ... at least one ...
You've already stated the obvious problem: There are only five remaining players, all of whom have been cleared---whether by their actions, or by VikeStep, the (indisputable) Fortune Teller:
  • Staxed - Villager - cleared by VikeStep
  • Jess887cp - Survivor - proven by his survival of a lynching
  • dgdas9 - Villager - quoted his role and elements of conversations (in private convo, which is not against the rules).
  • Eunomiac - Drunkard - contrary to what some have been saying, I have not been cleared by the Fortune Teller. However, I think my role has been proven just about as well as a role can be: I described it very early to both the_j485 and VikeStep, and then had two opportunities to copy and use roles as per claimed Drunkard's power. Both times, I stated in advance what I was doing, and the results confirmed what I said (GPuzzle's death being the clearest example).
  • the_j485 - Villager - indirectly confirmed by VikeStep, when I copied his power and used it on the_j485 and saw a "green aura"
So. Theories.

First, the tamest and most superficially-appealing one... which I don't particularly like:

dgdas9 is a Werewolf, and faked his proof. No. There is no way. It is impossible to ignore the grammatical similarities between ICountFrom0's actual (in-thread) posts, and the quoted material given my dgdas9 (which was not in violation of the rules---and I don't mean to wiggle through a technicality here, ICount; the express singling-out of "... to this thread" does seem to imply quoting messages is okay elsewhere). Combined with the volume of material dgdas9 quoted (pretty much an entire conversation, which he'd have had to write from scratch, while mimicking ICount's style and specific conversational fingerprints throughout---e.g. "where" vs. "were"), I consider this all but impossible. I will not vote to lynch dgdas9.

Second, a slightly more speculative one, which I still don't like:

Jess887cp is a Survivor-Werewolf. Nothing in his "near-death" message suggested he was on the villager team, and his role has not been updated in the OP. He could very well be a Survivor role stapled onto a werewolf. The problem with this? Three werewolves is already a lot for this game, I feel. To then add "invincible to first lynching attempt AND the ability to 'prove' villager loyalty" on top of one of them would, I think, be a little too much to give the Werewolf team, considering we didn't even get a Bodyguard/Doctor or any sort of defense beyond a Hunter.

And finally, the bombshell. This is the only theory I think makes sense. (Please, if you have another theory, do tell!)

VikeStep was a False Seer. The False Seer is unreliable (and doesn't know this). In some games, they always get the opposite read on players. In others, they see everyone as "Villager". In other games, it's a flip of the coin. We know it can't be the first option, because VikeStep identified two players as villagers (Staxed and, through me, the_j485). I doubt Staxed and the_j485 are both wolves, because that would make for a four-person wolf team---no. We also know it can't be the second option, because VikeStep identified both villagers (Staxed) and werewolves (goreae).

So I suspect it's the third option: VikeStep's ability to detect werewolves was inconsistent from the start.

This means we have to take another look at the players he cleared:
  • Staxed
  • the_j485 (through me, as I'd have copied an "inconsistent seer" ability)
I am certain that at leastone of those is a villager, because as I said before, "four-person werewolf team? no." The other, however, is my current favorite for "most likely to be our werewolf." From conversations in this thread and reviewing actions, I'm going to make a soft landing on...

the_j485

The reason I checked him in the first place was because I suspected some of his actions, such as his haste to "confirm" my "citizen/villager" logic as proving he was a villager (when it didn't), and the speed at which he jumped on the lynching bandwagon on several occasions---and Staxed will be able to verify this; I said as much in our first convo. And, if I copied an inconsistent seer ability (or even if the Drunkard has a hidden weakness, in that my use of others' abilities is inconsistent---I just now considered that), then my clearing the_j485 is not something that can be relied upon.

That being said, it's soft, because there's a good case for "Werewolf-Staxed", too.

Put yourself in his position: He gets a PM from the damn Fortune Teller saying "you've been cleared, and you're the only person I trust!" Around the same time, I'm sending him much the same message. He has us in his pocket, and can play the helpful villager while directing the flow of the game from a position of virtual immunity.

The problem is... from all I can tell, Staxed has directed the flow of the game in the villager's favor. I can't see a single suspicious act from him: Unlike the_j485, Staxed was never quick to leap on the lynching bandwagon, nor has he said or done anything even remotely inconsistent. He questioned me appropriately, not to sow suspicion; he tempered people's doubts instead of inflaming them, etc. On top of that, he's been a frequent poster: Someone in such a delicate position of deceit, keeping one's enemies closest and so forth, would lean towards more silence, I'd think.

Based on the conviction I have that dgdas9 is NOT a Werewolf...

I vote to lynch the_j485.

(If you're a villager, I am truly sorry that I've allowed myself to be so expertly played by whoever the wolf in our clothing really is.)
 

dgdas9

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I already said that "Final answer", I am not changing it now, I am getting lynched, live with it. But what you don't know is that J did give me evidences. So, not him.
 

Staxed

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sadly a lot of us have already locked in our vote for dgdas, though everything you said makes perfect sense Euno. It's such a toss up at the moment, though I do think jess and the_j make the best choices...so I'll have to vote for the_j next round because just like you, I don't think the survivor would be a werewolf role (though it's certainly possible and does make a modicum of sense).
 

Eunomiac

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Yep, just noticed I was the only person who hadn't locked in --- sorry, I hustled through those pages pretty fast :)

I lock in my vote to lynch the_j485.
 
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the_j485

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Look, Eunomiac, I am not a werewolf. I don't even understand what you mean mostly, let alone could I do it :p

I believe Dgdas could well be the werewolf.

He may have copied it from someone else who gave him proof of their villager-ness. I know that isn't much to go on, and yes your post is MUCH more convincing and well thought out, but it is all I have. Also, didn't you copy Vike's ability to clear someone?
 

dgdas9

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Look, Eunomiac, I am not a werewolf. I don't even understand what you mean mostly, let alone could I do it :p

I believe Dgdas could well be the werewolf.

He may have copied it from someone else who gave him proof of their villager-ness. I know that isn't much to go on, and yes your post is MUCH more convincing and well thought out, but it is all I have. Also, didn't you copy Vike's ability to clear someone?

Because all of the happy villagers wouldn't have found it suspicious to kindly ask for this kinda stuff...dumass

And, even worst, you're just doing thsi when I showed 2 convos, in so little time, not enough to forge it.

this just makes you look suspicious.

 

dgdas9

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You guys are going to discover if I am telling the truth or not, tonight. Just wait for it. IDK if you should lynch J or Staxed.
 

the_j485

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Look, I am a villager. I am not a werewolf, I have no powers, just a plain villager. If Dgdas isn't the werewolf tonight, then I guess it would be Staxed, as he seems like the only on eI personally have not received confirmation of his role
 

Staxed

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Look, I am a villager. I am not a werewolf, I have no powers, just a plain villager. If Dgdas isn't the werewolf tonight, then I guess it would be Staxed, as he seems like the only on eI personally have not received confirmation of his role


You really aren't being very convincing with your defense at all.
 

Eunomiac

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Look, Eunomiac, I am not a werewolf. I don't even understand what you mean mostly, let alone could I do it :p
...
He may have copied it from someone else who gave him proof of their villager-ness.
...
Also, didn't you copy Vike's ability to clear someone?
Let's take a walk down the garden path of possibilities.

There are five players left: Jess, dgdas9, Staxed, you, and me. One of us is a werewolf... but there are excellent reasons to think none of us are:
  • Jess is not a Werewolf, because Jess is the Survivor. I've only ever seen the Survivor (or Prince) as a Villager role... but ICountFrom0 is clearly insane, so we have to consider the possibility of a Survivor-Werewolf. Even so, that's extremely unlikely: A wolf who can avoid a lynch is basically like having an extra werewolf in the game, and four wolves to six villagers is absurd---especially considering there was already another role in the game trying to get us to waste one of our precious lynches (Peggle).
  • dgdas9 is not a Werewolf, because dgdas9 is not the greatest forger that ever lived---and he'd have to be, to mimic ICount's style so quickly, so well, and to such an extent. As for your "copying someone else's proof" theory, I ask: Who's proof did he copy? None of the dead players were Villagers. There are only two other alleged villagers in this game who could have given dgdas9 that proof: You and Staxed. So you're saying dgdas9 "proved" his villager-ness by quoting a whole conversation that one of you sent him, and that person---a villager who knew dgdas9 was faking his proof---didn't say anything? I don't think so. Regardless, we'll know one way or the other soon.
  • I am not a Werewolf. I welcome you to look for any reason whatsoever to think otherwise; it's not like I've been playing a reserved or subtle game here. I've been clearer and more transparent than anyone, and my actions and advice have always supported a villager win---even when my advice isn't being followed, like this lynching of dgdas9 (who I've been defending for far longer than just this vote). I have to be comfortable resting on the consistency of my words and the results of my actions; I said I would do as much when the game started.

  • Staxed is not a Werewolf, because he was cleared by VikeStep, who was unarguably the Fortune Teller. Even if he weren't, he indirectly confirmed he was a villager back when he corrected my assumption that villagers were "civilians" in this game. Only someone holding a Villager card would have had the necessary knowledge to assert that safely, and Staxed wouldn't have taken a risk there---he's a cautious player. Beyond even that, it's difficult for me to believe that Staxed is a werewolf simply given the manner with which he's played the game: There's a fine line between being subtle and handing the win to your enemy, and if Staxed is a wolf, I think he crossed that line. For much the same reason I doubted PeggleFrank was a wolf at the beginning ("he's a better player than this!"), I doubt Staxed is one now.

  • You are not a Werewolf, because you were cleared by me, after I copied VikeStep's power and used it on you. I targeted you with VikeStep's ability because I was worried I'd revealed myself to a wolf, when it turned out my "proof" that you were a villager (that villager/civilian thing) was wrong.
And yet, somehow, one of us is a werewolf. One of the above lines of reasoning is wrong; one of these things just doesn't belong here.

So: Where's the weak link?

The best theory I have is this: You, and possibly Staxed, were NOT cleared by a Fortune Teller's power, because either VikeStep is a False Seer (whose power is inconsistent/unreliable), or I am an "Inconsistent Drunk" (whose copied powers are inconsistent/unreliable). I started off thinking we had a False Seer in VikeStep (who wouldn't have known). But now I'm looking more closely at myself and this Inconsistent Drunk idea. You definitely had a green aura when I checked you, and it matched my own aura. But last night, when I killed GPuzzle, a coin flip was mentioned in a kind of cryptic way---probably because I was the wolves' target, and ICount was determining who'd kill who first, but maybe (also?) he was hinting that I can't even trust my OWN ability. (I keep coming back to this coin flip---in the middle of a "drunkenly tearing a werewolf limb from limb" message, it was kind of odd.)

If VikeStep is a False Seer, neither you nor Staxed have really been cleared. On the other hand, if I'm an Inconsistent Drunk, Staxed HAS been cleared (by VikeStep, a legit Fortune Teller)... but you haven't.

You've also been quick to hop on the lynch bandwagon, and you jumped on the idea that I'd "proven" you were a villager with that villager/civilian thing, even though it was later shown that I hadn't. Indeed, I originally targeted you with the power I copied from VikeStep specifically because I suspected you were a werewolf.

So, with all that being said, and given the line-up of four suspects I have to choose from, can you honestly blame me for declaring you Prime Suspect?

(I don't know if you can tell by these magnum opuses (magnum opi?) I keep writing, but win or lose, I'm really enjoying this mysterious wrinkle in our "perfect plan")
 
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the_j485

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Well, Eunomiac, after looking at your arguments, I really am screwed.

I still maintain my non-werewolf-ness, and I hope something new comes to light soon, otherwise we are going to lose the game.

Yes, I am clutching at straws here, but I THINK I KNOW WHO THE WEREWOLF IS.

Please hear me out, although I probably won't be believed.

So, Eunomiac. You are definitely the most experienced werewolf player. You make some excellent points, Jess, I believe, is indeed a villager. I obviously did not think that one through with Dave, sorry about that, but now it is unstoppable. I know Vike was a real seer as he proved it to me completely, so Staxed is DEFINITELY not a werewolf, sorry about that Staxed! I am not a werewolf, although I doubt that you lot believe me.

You may have noticed I skipped one. You Eunomiac. Wolf, or more likely lone wolf, as you killed one of your own.
(Hear me out, please!)
He has only, to my knowledge, used his power on anything other than a villager, except for two, G and Vike. Vike, that was easy enough to fake. You trusted me enough to be certain I am a villager, so you could just say that, and bam it seems you are right. G, you simply need just kill him, and again, bam, drunkard-like.

You have been playing us into your hand this whole time, waiting until one of us slips up, and then BAM there's your scapegoat.
Also, why would you be so helpful? Why, who wouldn't believe someone who has helped the villagers so much? Well, not me. If I am the luckiest living being in the world, then maybe I am not the only one.

Really, if I am wrong, I am truly sorry, but I believe you are the most likely one.[DOUBLEPOST=1378324921][/DOUBLEPOST]Although, if I am right, and Eunomiac is indeed a werewolf, then fair play to him! You rather skilfully tricked us all, very impressive! ANd if I doe tomorrow night, or indeed tonight if the werewolf kills me, then I will be glad to have been vanquished by so mighty a foe! :D

*Potentially shakes hand*
 
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Staxed

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this plot is awesome by the way :)

I will be doing lots of rereading tonight before I make a decision tomorrow, that is for sure.
 

dgdas9

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Just some "last" words. I see 3 options. As 2 of them (Vike not being the fortuneteller and Eunomiac being unstable), I will just post my last one, although this is a very tricky and unprobable.

Either Staxed or J were drunks. Vike/Eunomiac checked you, while you still thought you were villagers. But then you discovered you were not. Just in time. And now you are a wolf.

I would say it's Jonny. He has been acting weirdly a few days ago, while Staxed's actions have always been.

But there's always another option! ME BEING A WEREWOLF! I am a wolf. I really am./sarcasm
 

Eunomiac

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I kinda figured the suspicion merry-go-round had to land on me eventually. (Watch out, Staxed, I fear you're next!)

IT IS TIME FOR MY DEFENSE!

I know Vike was a real seer as he proved it to me completely ...

If VikeStep was a False Seer, he wouldn't have known it himself. He'd have been given a "Fortune Teller" card. The only way he could have found out would be if a person he'd read wrongly was killed, and their real role was revealed to him. (At this point, VikeStep would have been baffled.)

This is the same reason I can only suspect I'm an "inconsistent" drunkard---nothing in my "role card" says I am, except for the fact that it would be kind of in-theme: "Right, sure, yeah, there's this drunk guy and he can copy people's magical powers... have you considered he's just drunk?" But, I did target GPuzzle, and GPuzzle died, so I can't always be off.

(I assume you mean dgdas9 here, so I fixed it for clarity)
... Jess, dgdas9, I believe, is indeed a villager. I obviously did not think that one through with Dave, sorry about that, but now it is unstoppable.

Here's what I find curious: This is the second time you've acknowledged this. A few days ago, I stated the same thing in Villager Bloc, and you quoted and replied to it with "oh good point, I suppose dgdas9 IS a villager" (paraphrasing). Now you're back to shoving a pitchfork in his face... then admitting you're wrong (again) after hearing the exact same argument you already agreed to, almost verbatim.

If my argument is/was so persuasive, why didn't it stick?

I mean, it cut right to the core of the "forged quote theory", and you responded to it directly, so I find it very hard to believe that you conveniently forgot the smoking gun that proved dgdas9's quotes were genuine and that he is, indeed, a villager.

No, I think you saw an opportunity to lynch a villager, and you took it.

As for this Lone Wolf theory, I can't poke many holes in it: I could very well be a "Lone Wolf"-type role with the ability to kill werewolves at night. I have never heard of a werewolf who can kill other werewolves at night, but then again, I've never heard of the Drunkard or Pied Piper before. I could be the Devil himself, for all we know. I could even be a Martian.

It's not hard to propose a "possible" scenario when anything is possible. But when it comes down to it, what's your evidence?

He has only, to my knowledge, used his power on anything other than a villager, except for two, G and Vike. Vike, that was easy enough to fake. You trusted me enough to be certain I am a villager, so you could just say that, and bam it seems you are right. G, you simply need just kill him, and again, bam, drunkard-like.
This is what got you to "possible". But then you overreach:

You have been playing us into your hand this whole time, waiting until one of us slips up, and then BAM there's your scapegoat.
Who have I scapegoated? No one. I'm not even scapegoating you; I'm not pointing to a single "slip up", but at a vague pattern made up of a lot of circumstantial evidence that, taken together, makes you the most likely candidate.

Now, answer me this: Who have I defended from scapegoating?

Almost everyone, at one time or another.

Seriously, think about it. With the exception of Staxed (who has yet to need defending), I believe I've come to the defense of every single Villager (and Pied Piper) in this game, preventing the hasty lynching of more than one in the process.

Here's what you're up against: I've been the greatest force for NOT killing Villagers in this game. You cannot---you simply cannot---find fault with anything I have said or done. Is that your evidence?

Is this?
  • "You've done everything you said you were going to do, exactly as you said you were going to do it! You have never said a single inconsistent word, been caught in a lie, or done anything BUT help the villagers throughout the game---and help them damn well. But... forget all that. Here's this hypothetical scenario I just came up with in which it's possible that you're the werewolf! Pay no attention to the fact that "possible" is the best I can do, and that it involves an entirely speculative role that I also just came up with."
  • "You helped the villagers TOO much, you were trying to gain our trust the whole time! And everyone knows that real members of Team Villager don't want to help their team TOO much, because of reasons!"