The Problem with Mod Documentation/Repositories

[KirinDave]

Well what I am talking about is when mods have whole abbreviated classes and you don't know what is what and only the maker of the class and a select group of people know. And another thing I am saying is basically this horrible documentation can throw beginners off from modding.

While good coding style is of course important, no one owes you any documentation.

Also this will teach new modders this is okay to do and it will slowly progressively get worse.

This is false, logically and empirically. There are more resources for new modders now than ever before. Given that poorly written code in mods is hardly a new phenomenon, it'd already BE worse.

On the contrary, it's better. And the continued efforts of amazing folks like ProfMobius and Pahimar keep making it better, in spite of trollish posts like yours.

And I am not saying I do not make these mistakes I am saying I do not make them to the extent they are made.

See? Right there. Not cool. You might be better at writing code than someone else. You might be better at making a cup of coffee, too. There is no reason to be a jerk about it, or act like you're entitled to have your own standards as an axiomatic baseline.

Also do you right object oriented code?

I find object oriented metaphors to be overused, and ultimately mutable OO code is a failure in the industry for dealing with the problems that modern software engineers face. Even in the world of mutable code, OO is an overused pattern that should be reduced, as it leads to a lot of toxic patterns.

Most people appeal to OO code because it is familiar, not because it is well suited to the task at hand. People should read more and code less.

And one more thing I am not saying this to all modders. Most modders don't do this but the ones who do do it to a horrible extent.

So don't read their code? If it's not useful to you as a learning resource, then find some code that is. Rather than the digital equivalent of shouting into a curse jar.[DOUBLEPOST=1400859906][/DOUBLEPOST]

I a going to have to ask If you are unfamiliar with coding please do not say anything. It is not that your opinion is not wanted it is that it will not be a clear cut good opinion because you do not understand it the way coder will.

This is also a nasty, toxic sentiment. I fight every day to undo the damage the elitism you're spouting does to my industry. And note you have only yourself to blame. This is not a forum for writing software, this is a general discussion forum. Most people reading this will not have experience writing software.

 

[KirinDave]

// Returns Pyure's opinion
public static string LookGiftHorseInMouth()
{

// prepare an opinion.
string opinion = "I love when I share my code with others, at my expense, only to have them complain that its not presented to their standards. ";

// x, because we all do counters with x. I refuse to name it "mySpecialCounter"
int x;

// This is a for loop?
for (x = 0; x < 1000; x++)
{

opinion += opinion; // Um don't actually do this; that's a big string.​

}
return opinion;​

}

-- If you need a bigger string, I got your back.
bigString :: String 
bigString = "This string is as big as you need it to be, and can be evalated in constant space." : bigString

 

[CarbonBasedGhost]

This is also a nasty, toxic sentiment. I fight every day to undo the damage the elitism you're spouting does to my industry. And note you have only yourself to blame. This is not a forum for writing software, this is a general discussion forum. Most people reading this will not have experience writing software.

It's my industry too.

 

[KirinDave]

It's my industry too.

I will fight people like you every way I can. Your attitude makes people insecure, disenfranchises young people and under-represented people from joining the industry, and influences professionals to do things the wrong way for fear of judgement. It makes people defensive when presented with legitimate discussion and correction.

Your attitude is emblematic of everything wrong with the rank and file people in the software industry.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Okay this is a horrible flame war. I am learning/coding in Objective-C currently (so much more open then Java) and all I will say is that abbreviated names of variables is not good it is also not bad in this community as others have said working is better than documented. I think if you intend to open-source for help or helping other people learn it is a good idea to name variables for what they do, but it is not required. As I said I am doing Objective-C and it is sometimes referred to as the "wild-west of coding" due to this we need a lot of these things to make good sense of the code. However Java and other programming languages are much more structured and don't need this as badly.[DOUBLEPOST=1400861520][/DOUBLEPOST]

While good coding style is of course important, no one owes you any documentation.
I find object oriented metaphors to be overused, and ultimately mutable OO code is a failure in the industry for dealing with the problems that modern software engineers face. Even in the world of mutable code, OO is an overused pattern that should be reduced, as it leads to a lot of toxic patterns.

the bolded is very important, and as far as Objective Oriented programming. It is powerful, but Java and others preform better in certain situations.

 

[FyberOptic]

Why is this bad you ask? Because for new modders to start modding there examples are horribly written and they will not understand whats going on. On top of MCP already bad method names. Ex. p_2848_
So I ask modders sincerely to name their variables better and document correctly.

You realize that the reason there are methods and variables with names like that is because they're not fully deobfuscated, right? You're never, ever going to have a version of MCP where every single object is labeled properly. It's a waste of time, especially when the majority of modders will never even look at a certain portion of the Minecraft source, let alone interact with it. You're also going to have some versions where certain things aren't deobfuscated which may have been in the past, or possibly even have things with different names altogether. I'm surprised they're able to keep up with as many names as they do.

Not to mention, something like "p_2848_" is already better than what the pure obfuscated source is going to give you. Try disassembling any of the Minecraft classes and see how many variables and methods are named "a" and you'll quickly come to appreciate any generic names MCP assigns.

 

[Strikingwolf]

You realize that the reason there are methods and variables with names like that is because they're not fully deobfuscated, right? You're never, ever going to have a version of MCP where every single object is labeled properly. It's a waste of time, especially when the majority of modders will never even look at a certain portion of the Minecraft source, let alone interact with it. You're also going to have some versions where certain things aren't deobfuscated which may have been in the past, or possibly even have things with different names altogether. I'm surprised they're able to keep up with as many names as they do.

Not to mention, something like "p_2848_" is already better than what the pure obfuscated source is going to give you. Try disassembling any of the Minecraft classes and see how many variables and methods are named "a" and you'll quickly come to appreciate any generic names MCP assigns.

Exactly it is a waste of time. It is a balance @CarbonBasedGhost if we tried to do this with things updates would slow down...new mods would be created slower and some more unintended consequences will surely arise

 

[CarbonBasedGhost]

You realize that the reason there are methods and variables with names like that is because they're not fully deobfuscated, right? You're never, ever going to have a version of MCP where every single object is labeled properly. It's a waste of time, especially when the majority of modders will never even look at a certain portion of the Minecraft source, let alone interact with it. You're also going to have some versions where certain things aren't deobfuscated which may have been in the past, or possibly even have things with different names altogether. I'm surprised they're able to keep up with as many names as they do.

Not to mention, something like "p_2848_" is already better than what the pure obfuscated source is going to give you. Try disassembling any of the Minecraft classes and see how many variables and methods are named "a" and you'll quickly come to appreciate any generic names MCP assigns.

Yes I know they are deobfuscated I am saying it is already hard enough to learn to make mods in that enviorement. Those names I understand.[DOUBLEPOST=1400862741][/DOUBLEPOST]

Exactly it is a waste of time. It is a balance @CarbonBasedGhost if we tried to do this with things updates would slow down...new mods would be created slower and some more unintended consequences will surely arise

Yes but if you point someone to your code for reference and it is written horribly that is my problem.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Yes but if you point someone to your code for reference and it is written horribly that is my problem.

Ok then what you need to do is understand that on top of the update schedule, people asking for references, and RL they cannot handle trying to do this all. If they had teams like Google, Apple, etc. or this was their legit job they would be much much prettier[DOUBLEPOST=1400863037][/DOUBLEPOST]It is not as big of a deal as you think. In classical coding for a company they really need this, but if it is for a game it is not that big of a deal...the courses I am taking in Objective-C have lots of good variable names because they are needed not because it is pretty. Besides if you want to learn something about the language or modding go to something dedicated to it

 

[Pharabus]

I pretty sure you can register a friendly name to the srgname with MCPBot on IRC if you don't like the naming, it's a community driven project so contribute rather than criticise

http://mcpold.ocean-labs.de/index.php/MCPBot

 

[Strikingwolf]

so contribute rather than criticise

This right here

 

[KirinDave]

Yes but if you point someone to your code for reference and it is written horribly that is my problem.

Precisely. Not anyone else's.

 

[CarbonBasedGhost]

I will fight people like you every way I can. Your attitude makes people insecure, disenfranchises young people and under-represented people from joining the industry, and influences professionals to do things the wrong way for fear of judgement. It makes people defensive when presented with legitimate discussion and correction.

Your attitude is emblematic of everything wrong with the rank and file people in the software industry.

This was uncalled for. This is also something that breaks the forum rules.

 

[Brian Cherrick]

How, I am asking people who do not code to not say anything as they won't grasp the concept clearly it is not that I don't want their opinion it is that it will not always be based on proper facts and that could lead this thread the wrong way.

If you don't want them to say anything, then don't post your crybaby rant in a "PUBLIC" forum.

 

[CarbonBasedGhost]

If you don't want them to say anything, then don't post your crybaby rant in a "PUBLIC" forum.

Despite that there is no exception for improper behavior breaking the forum guidelines.

 

[Lawbroken]

I think enough is enough on this topic.

feelings are being hurt already.