The most underused starting strategies?

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Antice

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Creative mode? thats what you think, I think that people should get right away to stuff instead of wasting time creating the slowest tree farm ever just because it looks cool.

I hate when people think that just because you can fly and is hard to kill you is already creative mode

No. It takes more than flying and almost invincibility to make it creative mode. it's these two coupled with totally automated mining that makes it creative mode.
I don't care if a vid maker plays creative tho. as long as they don't pretend that it's anything but creative work they are doing. Bdubs is pretty honest this way I have to say. a point strongly in his favour.

The lack of interesting content on youtube in general is due to everyone explicitly doing the same thing, and once they have achieved the one thing they all seem to use as a milestone for achievement they just make empty vids where they build random stuff that generally don't have a purpose or goal except look pretty. and many just can't pull that off all that well.

I fully understand the need for professional youtubers to keep making content even when they are out of anything mod related to do. that is how they make money after all,
But when i watch youtube vid's, it's for the inspiration to do cool new types of builds, not look at mediochre architecture. I want to see stuff like traincraft utilized in some kind of cool way to make a transport nexus for instance. Not hear a vid full of gregtech related bitching.
Or a cool new way to sort items. (Thanks Guude. I loved the CC sorting/processing thing you did. it was awesome)

To put it bluntly, I don't care if Etho never ever get's a Q-suit. He's stated that he don't feel that he needs one even. What i do care about is seeing his railcraft transport system becoming operational one of these days.
This is where all complaints of OP'ness stems from. It's a sign of the frustration people feel when the go on a SMP server and find 10 almost identical factory builds powered by the same derpy power system.
The only half interesting stuff you generally find is what people do after they have gotten all the "Cool" toys and the creative mode building spree starts. Some builds are surprisingly nice, and sometimes someone makes something that is different enough to be labeled unique.

This is exactly the reason why I stopped making a let's play a while ago. It wasn't inspiring to me to be doing the same derpy things, And i lack the skills to be an awesome creative mode builder.
I planned on, and even started recording a IC2 LP back when there were only a few, but the same issue arised within 5 episodes worth of content. Nothing except making pretty buildings left to do. Not even worth the bandwidth to upload it.

This rant is not against mod's per see, but mods are just a way to put a dress on a pig if you ask me. the issue lies in minecraft itself. It's not truly a survival game. it's a creative building game. Lego's on steroids so to say. I play with mod's, because they add more lego blocks to my box of legos. simple as that. the more mod's with unique and different content the better.

Survival is so easy even on hard mode in fact, that i have sometimes gone straight to castle building without bothering to do more than some surface mining for iron tools and stone. Wood, stone and flowers are really all you need to get something fairly nice going. how's that for an alternative start-up for ya?

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main staircase to my "Base"
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My chest of goodies. Compliments of my only automation. a pair of turtles named after my cats
There are another chest full of Xcycraft stuff, and a third one full of random junk of value.
Don't mind the cheat mode NEI gui. I had just closed down my testworld before grabbing these shots.
I haven't even made a single machine yet in this world. No ore doubling or anything. just been spending gems on tools when needed. there's so much of those RP2 gems around, that wasting them for tools is a non issue.
 

PhilHibbs

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This rant is not against mod's per see, but mods are just a way to put a dress on a pig if you ask me. the issue lies in minecraft itself. It's not truly a survival game. it's a creative building game. Lego's on steroids so to say. I play with mod's, because they add more lego blocks to my box of legos. simple as that. the more mod's with unique and different content the better.

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with pigs, and I like Lego. I made this point on another game forum the other day, flying around and sculpting the landscape in Creative Mode is rather unsatisfying. Flying around in a jetpack that I made sculpting the landscape with blocks that I have worked hard for is fantastic. Of course you're not interested in me derping around with my jetpack. A Youtuber needs to have something a bit more compelling for people to watch. Even if it is just DocM's epic fail at building a Wither Boss cage.
 
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Dravarden

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well, bdubs said that doing a video takes time, and takes even longer if you have to do an end game machine to
change a color of an ingot for tier 1 items. So for let's players isn't so good, and since etho is not even touching Ic2c he doesn't even care.

ps: there is not such a thing as "OP" on a single player game, neither on a sandbox game, since minecraft is both, OP is only your opinion. Maybe you think gregtech is waaay too easy and it should require nether stars to be able to walk, maybe I think EE1 is too hard and diamods should cost 1 EMC.
 
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Antice

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I agree, but there's nothing wrong with pigs, and I like Lego. I made this point on another game forum the other day, flying around and sculpting the landscape in Creative Mode is rather unsatisfying. Flying around in a jetpack that I made sculpting the landscape with blocks that I have worked hard for is fantastic. Of course you're not interested in me derping around with my jetpack. A Youtuber needs to have something a bit more compelling for people to watch. Even if it is just DocM's epic fail at building a Wither Boss cage.


Lego was the best thing ever when i was a kid, and i still like them, so no dissing lego's here. them plastic blocks are awesome still.
If people are honest about what minecraft is and is not, then we wouldn't be having these "OP" issues. by all means. some fair balance should be done tho, and in all fairness. some mod's just don't play "fair" with the rest. I'm looking at you advanced solars, And Q-suit... why would anyone ever actually need you? so that they can swim in lava without dieing? there's a potion for that you know. it's less grindy to get as well.
 

RetroGamer1224

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Back on topoc.

I just started a new SSP using the DW20 pack. I got really lucky in that no more then fifty blocks away is a NPC village. No blacksmith but I got six villagers and the most decent trade is like 12 books for an emerald. There is a nice lake with a lot of sand. Beyond the point is the first thing I got was a slag furnace and gathering enough sand for three coke ovens. Now I need to find five stacks of clay to bake. There is some birch trees near by so I will deforest that area to start on charcoal. Then I will keep on with Factorization as it will be slow to get three hundred percent increase on ore. I may go IC2 later on or who knows. Probably more Railcraft and Steve's Carts for a tree farm then Forestry for farms. Thankfully the village has wheat, potatoes, and carrots.
 
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Antice

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well, bdubs said that doing a video takes time, and takes even longer if you have to do an end game machine to
change a color of an ingot for tier 1 items. So for let's players isn't so good, and since etho is not even touching Ic2c he doesn't even care.

ps: there is not such a thing as "OP" on a single player game, neither on a sandbox game, since minecraft is both, OP is only your opinion. Maybe you think gregtech is waaay too easy and it should require nether stars to be able to walk, maybe I think EE1 is too hard and diamods should cost 1 EMC.

It's all about content. if something looks like it could be grindy, then don't touch that part. none of the LP'ers I have seen complains about having to manually dig up a million blocks of stone in order to build their castle of awesome in vanilla. them bitching about GT is just that. bitching about nothing imho.
Making a Q-suit expensive is a way of saying that yes. you can have this really OP item that makes you almost invulnerable, but you really have to pay for it. not in value, but in time.
I think that is a fair trade tbh. the Q-suit and it's attendant high tier machinery isn't actually needed for anything. beyond ore doubling and autosorting, there isn't much need to automate much at all if your plan is to be a builder. :cool:
A tinkerer otoh will be automating everything they can get their oily hands on, just because they can. :D
 

Abdiel

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The problem is, 95% of people who call something "OP" merely mean, "too easy for my idea of what the game should be like". Since everyone has different expectations from the game, different playstyle, obviously different people will consider different things "OP" by this definition. And since this is the internet, having a different opinion is not allowed and calls for an all out hate war to completely discredit the other person.

The term "OP" is so overused on these (and other) forums that it completely loses its original meaning and is merely a figure of speech at best, a straw man at worst.
 

PhilHibbs

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I had that concern - too easy - about turtles at first. However, I find it such fun tinkering with lua scripts and getting turtles to do things in a neat automated way that I'm glad that it's easy to build them early on. Someone who just downloads an automated quarrying script or runs the built in excavate might find that it detracts from their game, because they basically just press a button and ore appears in a chest.
 

DoctorOr

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Well, DW already has quantum armor, and I don't see people complaining that it isn't fun anymore.

I'd suggest that the people who would find DW's lighting fast methodology uninteresting to be the people not watching his LP videos. Like me.

In fact, I was watching some specific series3 of his to get his nuke design, and just the example usage of EE2 in those videos makes me wonder how any rational person could ever have looked at that mod and think it was anything but boring.
 

KirinDave

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I had that concern - too easy - about turtles at first. However, I find it such fun tinkering with lua scripts and getting turtles to do things in a neat automated way that I'm glad that it's easy to build them early on. Someone who just downloads an automated quarrying script or runs the built in excavate might find that it detracts from their game, because they basically just press a button and ore appears in a chest.

I have similarly reversed my stance on turtles somewhat so long as the fuel value is not set to 0, which was my original experience. I think a surprising balance consideration is how ephemeral turtle memory is. If they were more persistent, they'd be way better.[DOUBLEPOST=1360779416][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'd suggest that the people who would find DW's lighting fast methodology uninteresting to be the people not watching his LP videos. Like me.

In fact, I was watching some specific series3 of his to get his nuke design, and just the example usage of EE2 in those videos makes me wonder how any rational person could ever have looked at that mod and think it was anything but boring.

EE2 is a fun diversion and if you play without collectors it's a very different game dynamic. It's definitely more builder focused than engineer focused, though. It worked great as single mod; not so great in mixed mods that relied upon things like diamonds costing significant resources.

The goal though is to balance your builds with the scope of your resources. EE2 let you build some really astounding structures that were "not free", and they had such bizarre design considerations (I personally saw many more 3 dimensional sphere structures to help enclose growing collector-condensor arrays) that it could definitely be an interesting diversion.
 

Antice

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I too have changed my stance on turtles, because quite frankly. they allow me to skip the a lot of the grindy mining altogether. I just pretend they are my derpy slaves friends who are willing to do my bidding as long as i instruct them very carefully.... very carefully indeed. :confused:
Naming them after my cats kinda helps. I have about as much success getting them to do what i want as i do with the real cat's in my house. I really could need a coding lesson or ten. :oops:
That being said. once you realize that getting gear is less than 10% of the game, then you can break free and truly start thinking about being creative.
 

RetroGamer1224

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I need to start using turtles. I made a computer in a SMP world and have three diamonds. I dunno if to make a pick and the turtle instead of hunting for gold for TC.
 

Zelfana

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I just wish turtles used fuel to do actions, too, instead of just moving. You can have a stationary melee turtle whacking at mobs in a mob trap and it doesn't use any fuel but gets you exp for the one time cost of a gem sword basically. You don't even need a diamond one with RP2 in, that was the only real cost of them.
 

Poppycocks

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I just wish turtles used fuel to do actions, too, instead of just moving. You can have a stationary melee turtle whacking at mobs in a mob trap and it doesn't use any fuel but gets you exp for the one time cost of a gem sword basically. You don't even need a diamond one with RP2 in, that was the only real cost of them.
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll be costing steel machine hulls advanced circuits and generators pretty damn soon.

:D
 
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RetroGamer1224

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Ehh if turtles used fuel for actions they may, again MAY, lose versatility. I see it as another thing that needs an extra step to work. One already has to program them which, depending on your level of Lua, can be time consuming. Adding in a pipe or something to keep them fueled or even a line in code means more time spent not digging, farming, ect.
 

Zelfana

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I get that these mods are supposed to lessen the time needed for basic vanilla mechanics but they should cost more up front if you're not going to need continuous supply of materials. But this is derailing the thread a bit.

To get just a bit back on topic I'm thinking on starting by not crafting any wooden or stone tools. Get a friendly creeper or if lucky find a pick from a chest. I always have been a stone tool guy until enough diamonds and levels to afford enchanted diamond gear. I should try the iron/bronze/steel tier for everything and not just the pick. And btw, I just realized the other day that Ironwood doubles your iron and lasts longer than basic iron. Steel might last even longer but since Ironwood doubles it gets you more bang for one ingot. The drawback is of course the fact that they come enchanted but the armor is pretty nice. Tools not so much but I guess it saves you some levels. Of course they only make sense when you're just starting or mid game.
 

YX33A

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I have one last thing to add; if you want to do something different, use Forestry Beekeeping to the highest level you can. Add Extra Bees and Thaumic Bees, and use them to get your resources. Try to make a full Quantum Suit with just Bees for Resources. With Extra Bees, it's possible. Not easy, but possible.
If I could, I'd disable ore generation for IC2 and GregTech, and any other mod which adds Copper, Tin, or Silver, just for the challenge of trying to breed bees to get the resources needed to get started in IC2/GregTech.
It'd be damn near impossible without knowing all the bees in Extra Bees, but that would be half the "fun", trying to find the right type of bees for the project you're working on.
 

Abdiel

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To be honest, I always found turtle fuel to be a somewhat obsolete mechanic. Hook a turtle up to a lava bucketizer or a renewable fuel source of your choice, fill her up for couple million units, and never worry about fuel ever again (ever again defined as a very long time). Sure, you could change it so that a turtle has a limited maximum amount of fuel, but that's just going to mean sacrificing already precious inventory slots and interleaving all your code with turtle.refuel() (or if you know a thing or two about programming, writing your own library of wrappers for movement functions). None of this really adds anything to the whole programming for Minecraft experience. I played on a server with fuel disabled for a while, and I didn't feel any huge issues with balance.

If you want to add a running cost to turtles, I would make their tools lose durability just as if they were used by a player. This also instantly obsoletes all the "dig this 30x30x60 area" programs ("here is a quarry for the cost of three gems, that doesn't even use energy"), and rewards people who code their turtles to specifically seek out useful ores and avoid mining truckloads of cobblestone.

I feel that turtles are well balanced by the fact that they are almost always slower than any other automation method at pretty much any task; and by the need to write code for them. Just as you spend a week gathering minerals for a gravitation suit or a fusion reactor, I spent a week programming the mastermind turtle that mines, sorts, smelts, crafts, slices, dices, and makes my bed. I think that week should be rewarded just as much as a week spent digging in caves. (Unfortunately, many people completely avoid this cost by simply downloading finished programs from the internet. I kind of feel that this is pretty much like giving yourself items from NEI - you didn't do any work for it, you just grabbed a finished piece from somewhere.)[DOUBLEPOST=1360789090][/DOUBLEPOST]
I have one last thing to add; if you want to do something different, use Forestry Beekeeping to the highest level you can. Add Extra Bees and Thaumic Bees, and use them to get your resources. Try to make a full Quantum Suit with just Bees for Resources. With Extra Bees, it's possible. Not easy, but possible.
If I could, I'd disable ore generation for IC2 and GregTech, and any other mod which adds Copper, Tin, or Silver, just for the challenge of trying to breed bees to get the resources needed to get started in IC2/GregTech.
It'd be damn near impossible without knowing all the bees in Extra Bees, but that would be half the "fun", trying to find the right type of bees for the project you're working on.
Bonus points if you manage to do this without looking up spoilery walkthroughs.
 

DoctorOr

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Ehh if turtles used fuel for actions they may, again MAY, lose versatility. I see it as another thing that needs an extra step to work. One already has to program them which, depending on your level of Lua, can be time consuming. Adding in a pipe or something to keep them fueled or even a line in code means more time spent not digging, farming, ect.

Not with any serious EU generation and MiscPeripherals installed. You can build a charger and leave the turtle next to it overnight and never charge it again.

Really needs a maximum fuel storage. Right now I have a couple turtles with more power stored in them than required to make a handful of UUmatter - at GregTech prices.[DOUBLEPOST=1360789665][/DOUBLEPOST]
I feel that turtles are well balanced by the fact that they are almost always slower than any other automation method at pretty much any task; and by the need to write code for them. Just as you spend a week gathering minerals for a gravitation suit or a fusion reactor, I spent a week programming the mastermind turtle that mines, sorts, smelts, crafts, slices, dices, and makes my bed. I think that week should be rewarded just as much as a week spent digging in caves.

Except that week you spend on your single player building your fusion plant doesn't help in the multiplayer, or even in your next single player world. The programming does.
 

Antice

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I generally don't use my turtles as quarries. they are mostly used for digging out 3x3 shafts and branching. altho i'm guilty of just downloading a mining program. (not a fully automatic one tho. it can only do one branch at at a time). most of my stuff is actually from all the digging needed to carve out my base. well. that and when i derped and set it to do a branch at copper level and the one i sent to the left hit sand without having sand put on ignore, and the other hit a majorly large vein of marble.... Man i started wondering where they went. then i noticed the storage chests being filled up with sand and marble... Had to wade in and rescue them. found one trying to empty the ocean floor of sand, adn the other digging out a massive cave in marble. quite impressive little buggers they are. And now i don't need sand for quite a while....