The "Balance" Standard

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ECrownofFire

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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*Starts new game without balance because herp derp it's a SANDBOX GAME!*
*enables bonus chests*
*opens it up*
"OH YAY! Full quant with a gravisuit, advanced diamond drill and a HV Solar hat! This non balance is so fucking awesome!"
Fuck balance!

The point of people saying "it's a sandbox game, it doesn't need balance" is that YOU CHOOSE what is balanced and what is not. If you don't like how something is more powerful than you feel it should be, then you don't use it or you change it (hurrah for config options).

The fact that creative mode exists does not ruin your game forever.
 
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Freakscar

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think most of us can agree that there should at least be some sort of balance - even in a sandbox game. But the opener stated a very intrigueing question there. What IS overpowered and what is not. Hum. I think, my definition of "nah, too OP" is different from the usual. Let's take the sources of fuel for a steam boiler as an example. Blaze Rods were a quite valid option for those - but as soon as a bigger group of players created Blazefarms, they got nerfed. Not that I care, but thats basically what happened. This is something I do not "get". For me, it would've made more sense to equal all sources of fuel out on one level and go from there. Is it set too low, or too high? Heck, if I wanted to fuel my boiler with cooked steaks, I would like to have the option to. Not the dictate of "You must not." from someone whose mod I happen to play (fantasy, I know the real deal ;) ). Fallout up there is a quite good example. And, whithout cheats or "Planet Fallout" addons, actually a very well balanced one. You start out as this Nobody fresh from the Vault (a postapocalyptic bunker, for those that missed this gem of game) and have basically no idea what you got into. You develop while playing and when nearing (for a lack of a better word) endgame, you no longer are a nobody, but a recognised and well known force to reckon on. You can fight, you are wealthy, you have friends in all the right places. Tadah, Game Over. And this happens silent - you do not get "Skill A" and suddenly are a superhero. Neither do you get "Weapon B" and become one. It's a very well planned out process and as far as I am concerned, probably is one of the reasons why this game is so popular.

Now in Minecraft-FTB we do not have an evolving plot, a main goal. Adventure maps aside, please. Which throws any kind of "planned progression" or "turning points" nearly out of the window. Nearly I say, because there still are points that mark a change. Access to the Nether. Mystcraft ages. Stable power generation for a steady income of raw materials. Stuff like that. I'm with Gus in this one - a too easy success (such as, for example, the combination of a redstone energy cell and a quarry) for one of those corner stones of "progress" (for me!) feels kinda cheesy and unfulfilling. Not that I want everything I craft to need a couple of nether stars either. But it's difficult. And, dare I say, with so many mods developed primary with VANILLA in mind, it's nigh impossible to manage them on a common level altogether. There will always be something that is overpowered for one person or underpowered for another. Apart from obvious stuff like "One Netherstar will provide enough heat to heat up a 36HP and let it cook for 12 hours afterwards" or the likes, we will never see a complete agreement on "all of the mods in FTB/whateverpack are perfectly balanced".

So my point is: Any mod / block / machine that fulfils a role ingame and is easily accessable early on is overpowered. What I would whish for, was a more complex infrastructure between mods (whishful thinking here). Not only should mods use parts / ingredients from other mods, their machines should rely on each other. Kinda like how a SC treefarm, the RP2 managers, the Factorization barrels/router, the Railcraft steamboiler and the buildcraft sawmill work together to create steam. I'd love MORE of that. Connecting points where one mod supplies another one to create something bigger. That would be purrdy. Finally, I prefer my game to not contain any "I.W.I.N." blocks - quantum energy generator and the like. Those are mapmakers tools. Anything that smells like "I r teh command block equivalent of oil production" is out for me. On the other hand it definitely takes time, work and effort to build an "Ultimate Hybrid Solar panel" - so I'm fine with that. If someone not only gathers the needed materials, but also sets up a factory to produce them - that, for me, is the spirit of Feed The Beast or any tech-related modpack. So what, he does get a million eu outta that single block - but he sure as heck earned that reward, as it was a rocky road to get 'there'.This is all coming from a SSP point of view. Having a server community come along and say "Hi, you're new, oh and here's your UHSP for eu needs" is wrong. ;)

Next, crafting. There are some recipes in FTB that I find simply tedious. Not because of the materials needed, but the crafting itself. It's kinda ridiculous when you have to craft two dozen "parts" before a final item is the result. Look at the 64k storage module from Applied Energistics and you get a nice example of a tedious recipe. It's not HARD to do, its boring. You craft several modules (81xCell > 27xSegment > 9xBlock > 3xCluster > 1x64k Disk) after another in order to craft one single item. Which is powerful indeed, but still tedious to craft. Not DIFFICULT. That's not balancing, thats boring me to death. What I would like to see is an upgrade to my existing cells/segments/etc. Make those expensive, or at least more expensive, I'm fine with that. But letting me build 120 items for one single item as result.. meh.

I'm loosing track of where I wanted to go with all this writing - so I'll stop here and you may take this mess however you like. Last sentences: I never bothered pondering about balancing at all - I feel if it is "fine with me" or not: Because if it is, chances are high I will incorporate it into my systems and builds, if it is not, there prolly is no way in years you'll ever see me utilize the mod/item/block in question - I will call this my gut-balancing-sensor (works only for me^^).
 

LightKnight

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Why do we even play ? to have fun and not for other reasons ... all the balance point is depending on each person if it is fun for him or not . if you feel it is too easy you will be bored that's why games aren't made so easy so people will play it , but in a sandbox game this is individually . and so to say mods are already op because you can after few hours of gameplay build a quarry which mines for you ? isn't this op to compartment to vanilla ? or you can get a drill that never breaks isn't it op ? and so on , so the whole point of this is personal enjoyment
 

Hoff

Tech Support
Oct 30, 2012
2,901
1,502
218
*Starts new game without balance because herp derp it's a SANDBOX GAME!*
*enables bonus chests*
*opens it up*
"OH YAY! Full quant with a gravisuit, advanced diamond drill and a HV Solar hat! This non balance is so fucking awesome!"
Fuck balance!
I've actually done very similar except that I also included several woven backpacks and a portal gun. That world still has more hours that most of my worlds. Hell I get tired of needing this bit of infastructure to do this and that so I just cheat it in if I don't want to put forth the effort to get it.

The problem many people have with you saying there is balance is that you don't say it like it's on an individual level or should be there. You talk of it as if there is a baseline that everyone should have to follow no matter what, which is completely wrong.
 
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