I thought they were there to create lag.
Honestly, for the servers I managed it was more a problem than a game mechanic.Tech mods: Why have a power system?
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I thought they were there to create lag.
Honestly, for the servers I managed it was more a problem than a game mechanic.
Main reason for a power system is to power the infrastructure to do this:
If you aren't torturing the bastards, you aren't doing it right.
If you aren't torturing the bastards, you aren't doing it right.
The sound of HNRGing coming from under my blood altar is wonderful...
Again, I think bees are balanced as they are and don't need changes... If you have enough bees to not need to mine, then you have mined enough to be sick of it.
Matter Overdrive has a matter replication feature (that was one of the starting "main features" anyway). It does require a large-ish setup - similar to Applied Energistics - but it is very balanced, with huge RF costs, chance of failure, and the requirement to "research" an item x amount of times (configurable; default is 5).
That is expected though, as you wouldn't have much of a power system if one mod can replicate features from every mod that uses it. It's the fact RF is a power system not a mod on it's own like IC2 or Rotarycraft that is the distinct difference to why it doesn't have the same defined balance when using it.
Pretty much what @Chocohead said. RF is a tool, it can be used to make a challenging mod. But modders have used it in a simplistic way.
Then again that's mainly because people just want their perks. No modder seems to want to do it because they want FTB popularity so they cater to the crowd. As you would expect.
I wonder if there's any modders out there brazen enough to make a tech mod that actually has no power system. Or requirements at all other then the original crafting.
As in no power requirements at all, just make the block and use it for free forever. But the machines will only ever work at a set speed of 2-3 seconds per operation. The mod would have a furnace, ore doubling and a quarry. They would also have auto eject/pull and add their own transport pipes that are instant.
I wonder how popular a mod like this would be.
Actually a mod like this would certainly answer this question.
If it ends up popular the answer would be: "there is no point to power systems, they are just flimsy barriers keeping me from the utility I seek."
If it's unpopular the answer would be:"I think the power system may have been integral to my enjoyment, the at times mild resistance to my goals must subconsciously increase my levels of enjoyment. "
It's probably why EE2 was popular. It was creative mode after a while but the people who liked the mod could have very well got a similar experience playing creative. But I thinl the initial resistance of the first couple hours of setup must enrich the experience and state an obvious contrast to going from powerless to powerful. Maybe we have power systems even simple ones because the resistance makes us feel like we are achieving something and not just dicking around in a block building game.
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Then again that's mainly because people just want their perks. No modder seems to want to do it because they want FTB popularity so they cater to the crowd. As you would expect.
I wonder if there's any modders out there brazen enough to make a tech mod that actually has no power system. Or requirements at all other then the original crafting.
As in no power requirements at all, just make the block and use it for free forever. But the machines will only ever work at a set speed of 2-3 seconds per operation. The mod would have a furnace, ore doubling and a quarry. They would also have auto eject/pull and add their own transport pipes that are instant.
I wonder how popular a mod like this would be.
Actually a mod like this would certainly answer this question.
If it ends up popular the answer would be: "there is no point to power systems, they are just flimsy barriers keeping me from the utility I seek."
If it's unpopular the answer would be:"I think the power system may have been integral to my enjoyment, the at times mild resistance to my goals must subconsciously increase my levels of enjoyment. "
It's probably why EE2 was popular. It was creative mode after a while but the people who liked the mod could have very well got a similar experience playing creative. But I thinl the initial resistance of the first couple hours of setup must enrich the experience and state an obvious contrast to going from powerless to powerful. Maybe we have power systems even simple ones because the resistance makes us feel like we are achieving something and not just dicking around in a block building game.
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I get butterflies, but bees are faster. On the other hand, butterflies can get under pipes as a morph. Choices, choices...
I would argue that we are objectively achieving something, but I don't have the time right now to explain my views on the validity of video gaming as a challenge. That will come later.
Power, regardless of type, is yet another resource that is used to make items. It's like coal in a furnace, just that there are blocks that specialize in creating this resource called power, and other items that allow this resource to be channeled to different blocks, or stored for future use. To me the creation of this thing called power is part of the tech mod. And personally, I like building power systems - the more esoteric the better. Note that this perspective can even be extrapolated to the magic mods - Botania mana, Thaumcraft essence, etc.
The main issue, I think, is that there are players that just want to build an "ore doubling block", place it down, and have it double ores based on some sort of stimulus rather than having to create and place a bunch of blocks just to get to that point. It's a fair perspective, and it would be interesting to see what folks could come up with. I wouldn't expect it to be popular.
(As an aside, if you want ore doubling and furnace smelting look at Modular Systems. It has a pretty interesting take on this problem.)
Note that this perspective can even be extrapolated to the magic mods - Botania mana, Thaumcraft essence, etc.The main issue, I think, is that there are players that just want to build an "ore doubling block", place it down, and have it double ores based on some sort of stimulus rather than having to create and place a bunch of blocks just to get to that point. It's a fair perspective, and it would be interesting to see what folks could come up with. I wouldn't expect it to be popular.
(As an aside, if you want ore doubling and furnace smelting look at Modular Systems. It has a pretty interesting take on this problem.)
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Progressive Automation recently... I forget whether it has ore doubling (we need an abbreviation for that), but it does - as the name suggests - automate a lot of the stuff most larger mods do. Item Transport, which it lacks (as far as I know), can be handled power-less-ly with Buildcraft; redstone engines, while technically "power," are generally not used for anything besides wooden transport pipes anyway.Power, regardless of type, is yet another resource that is used to make items. It's like coal in a furnace, just that there are blocks that specialize in creating this resource called power, and other items that allow this resource to be channeled to different blocks, or stored for future use. To me the creation of this thing called power is part of the tech mod. And personally, I like building power systems - the more esoteric the better.
The main issue, I think, is that there are players that just want to build an "ore doubling block", place it down, and have it double ores based on some sort of stimulus rather than having to create and place a bunch of blocks just to get to that point. It's a fair perspective, and it would be interesting to see what folks could come up with. I wouldn't expect it to be popular.
(As an aside, if you want ore doubling and furnace smelting look at Modular Systems. It has a pretty interesting take on this problem.)
The item transporting part sounds a lot like vanilla hoppers, they don't need anything to run but are pretty slow. They can also be wired together in such a way to act as a sorting machine, with the correct redstone as well of course. The only reason I'd see people not using them is that they'd rather pay for near instant processing for their masses of MFR Laser'd ores than just make lots of free ones and wait.
You mean like the AE grindstone? You make the grindstone then have to wack the handle to actually process the ores, but don't need any other blocks.
That's one. I also have the Composter in Thermal Recycling that takes water as well as Green/Brown material to fertilize the area around it. Doesn't require power. Other items that could be considered part of this are the press/fermenting system of GrowthCraft, Pam's HarvestCraft processing of bee combs, etc.
What I would like to see is a more primitive version of RotaryCraft that focuses in on primitive power systems like water wheels and wind power in order to power stuff like grind stones and band saws. I know there are some mods out there that do some of this but IMO are burdened with a lot of extras that may not be wanted.
Big reactors just brake everything
To get that huge amount of Power with for example ic2..
Imagine what you have to do for this
Feel like ic2 is the only Balanced mod in Terms of Power out There
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See Hydraulicraft... That makes ore doubling a little more complex (though still quite easy), however, how many popular packs have it?
It's more like "I prefer to set up my resource gathering in a way that I - eventually - don't have to think about it any more and the resources are just there." I can't speak about others, but usually in a heavily modded pack, you're drowning in things you want to do. It is occasionally overwhelming. For me personally, it is thus important that I can put some of those projects behind me and won't have to think about them any more for the foreseeable future, so that I can concentrate on others. This is even more true if I play with mods I haven't used before. Then I want to get things like resource collection or power gen out of the way because I've done that a thousand times, in order to to get to the nifty new way to use those resources and power some genius modder has thought up.
For that reason - again I'm speaking only for me - "ultra-fast mining" isn't really attractive to me unless it's also "constantly running mining." I can deal with slow, as long as I don't have to flip a switch every 30 minutes or so. Automation in order to have things constantly running, that's a solution to the problem that you're one player building and managing 50 factories connected by three different logistics systems. Also, it is of course very satisfying to see such a setup work. In a way, it's its own reward.
As an aside, it happens quite often that I look at what I've built and - I'm immensely impressed by the modders who made it possible, specifically made it possible for a complex setup to be so rock-stable that it can run for the lifetime of a world without intervention. I happen to know something about software stability, and that is truly impressive.
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Wow - wasn't aware of that mod. Thanks for the link. But yeah, I was thinking something along these lines, but adding wooden shafts, flywheels, etc. ala RotaryCraft. The resources used would be wood, iron, stone, wool, string, etc. No need to add yet another copper block.
I personally don't care for automatic mining or methods of producing resources out of thin air (thinking the laser drills from MFR). I enjoy digging deep and doing mining manually.
As for power systems, they are a part of automation and serve the same needs as their RL equivalent: transporting power from where you can make it to where it is most useful. Even an automated tree farm making charcoal, together with a piping system that transports the charcoal to different locations where it's burned in furnaces to cook stuff, is a power system. Just as in RL, there is synergy and efficiency gain in centralizing the generation of power, whether it's some sort of electricity-substitute or just charcoal.
Also, having the capability for, say, ore doubling, by default would be boring. I might as well play creative. A part of the fun still lies in building all the stuff and seeing it work, even for things you've done many times in the past. I do want the perk in the end, but it wouldn't be enjoyable to just cheat a machine in that gives it to me without any input.
Also, having the capability for, say, ore doubling, by default would be boring. I might as well play creative. A part of the fun still lies in building all the stuff and seeing it work, even for things you've done many times in the past. I do want the perk in the end, but it wouldn't be enjoyable to just cheat a machine in that gives it to me without any input.
The only doubling by default I really like is Thaumcrafts, but even then you need to work up to the Pickaxe of the Core for it.
I've only read the first page and don't really have time to read through all of them, so hit me with a stick if this has already been asked/discussed:
What's stopping some modder from creating their own energy system, let's say with somewhat realistic/complicated properties, and then creating cables/pipes/whatever that connect to both EU and RF machines, detects those machines and only provides rf/eu power to them equivalent to the power in the pipes, or even special strenghts like a pulverizer needing a high current before it receives energy, or even explode them. If there was a mod sorely focusing around generators and wireing, with a neat config that let's users add rf/eu compatible tile entities to the list with custom strenghts, maybe even a public repository where people can submit these, I would definitely use it. I would remove any other wireing from my modpack instantly.
While it's not going to be the best solution, at least with something like that we could theoretically create a more complex/interesting (for those that want it) energy system while still retaining compatibility to the 2 major energy systems. It would have it's limitations like not being able to change the machines speed by increasing current/voltage, but at least we could set realistic limitations/restrictions on machinery. Power loss and such would be handled by the cables, so isn't something to worry about.
EDIT: Something like this would also allow for a choice. Some modpack focused around being hard and realistic? Throw it in. Some modpack like Infinity? Probably not such a good idea.
What's stopping some modder from creating their own energy system, let's say with somewhat realistic/complicated properties, and then creating cables/pipes/whatever that connect to both EU and RF machines, detects those machines and only provides rf/eu power to them equivalent to the power in the pipes, or even special strenghts like a pulverizer needing a high current before it receives energy, or even explode them. If there was a mod sorely focusing around generators and wireing, with a neat config that let's users add rf/eu compatible tile entities to the list with custom strenghts, maybe even a public repository where people can submit these, I would definitely use it. I would remove any other wireing from my modpack instantly.
While it's not going to be the best solution, at least with something like that we could theoretically create a more complex/interesting (for those that want it) energy system while still retaining compatibility to the 2 major energy systems. It would have it's limitations like not being able to change the machines speed by increasing current/voltage, but at least we could set realistic limitations/restrictions on machinery. Power loss and such would be handled by the cables, so isn't something to worry about.
EDIT: Something like this would also allow for a choice. Some modpack focused around being hard and realistic? Throw it in. Some modpack like Infinity? Probably not such a good idea.
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