Survey - Future Quest Based Modpacks

GamerwithnoGame

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Before this conversation gets too far into the weeds, yes Agrarian Skies was 1.6.4, yes it had Extra Utilities 1, it also had world interation upgrades for transfer nodes intentionally disabled.

The point everyone is trying to make and I hope has been heard, is that end game queusts and goals should take some time to complete, but not be completely tedious nor should the solution put into practice become server killers either.
Yep, @zBob summed it up nicely there, both with regards to the frustrating decision about the ExU transfer node upgrades (and I think possibly the pipes and nodes themselves?) being disabled, and about how solutions should be interesting and inventive instead of "spam X block and wait" or "die server die".
 
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Drbretto

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There's a good balance that can be struck in terms of grindiness, too. If you've generated enough resources to build the core block of the system you want gate, you don't need to keep testing those resource generators any more.

Like, let's say you gate the RS core block with 64 blocks of quartz and 64 blocks of iron in the recipe, then you've proven that the player has a pipeline to both resources. You don't need the rest of the system to require so much. It's done its job. The rest of the recipes can be perfectly reasonable.

Of course, if you can just gate the recipe entirely, though, then you have much more flexibility.
 
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GamerwithnoGame

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There's a good balance that can be struck in terms of grindiness, too. If you've generated enough resources to build the core block of the system you want gate, you don't need to keep testing those resource generators any more.

Like, let's say you gate the RS core block with 64 blocks of quartz and 64 blocks of iron in the recipe, then you've proven that the player has a pipeline to both resources. You don't need the rest of the system to require so much. It's done its job. The rest of the recipes can be perfectly reasonable.

Of course, if you can just gate the recipe entirely, though, then you have much more flexibility.
Indeed! I think that's what they did with AE2 in one of the mod packs (IE:E?) - you required an expensive item to make the critical components of an energy acceptor and a ME controller, and the rest was ok. Now, that said, I'm not 100% sure I liked them doing that because while computer storage can make certain things easier that you might not want them to, there is also an element of quality of life there.
 

Drbretto

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Having used RS for the first time in this current pack, I will never play a pack that doesn't have one of those options at least eventually ever again.

By all means, gate it behind some high tiered stuff so by the time you get it, you really appreciate it, but those systems don't just make it *easier*. They enable a entirely new level of play. It should be included, but you should really have to earn it.

Edit: Substitute with AE all you want, though. RS is a bit simple. Which is what I want sometimes, but in a hard pack, I'd probably prefer the more complicated option.
 
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Nuclear_Creeper0

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Actually, isn't that functionality built into 1.12 anyway? With that recipe book or whatever? Is that something modders can tap into or is that more or less bypassed in any modpacks?

I'm still stuck in 1.10 land. I've gone as high as 1.11, but never logged into 1.12.
Yeah but we're talking about having a mod based on that functionality. You unlock recipes as you make new things. With the crafting Guide as the QUEST Book
 

Drbretto

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Yeah but we're talking about having a mod based on that functionality. You unlock recipes as you make new things. With the crafting Guide as the QUEST Book
Right, but I was just wondering if, instead of a mod based on that functionality, if there was a way to take that functionality that's already there and manipulate it to achieve the same goal. I just like the idea of actually USING the features that people keep having to update their mods for. As far as I can tell, the only potentially interesting feature introduced since 1.10 is that. And maybe the adventure maps or whatever they're called.

But if that's just not feasible, a mod based on it would surely be more flexible anyway.
 

Nuclear_Creeper0

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Right, but I was just wondering if, instead of a mod based on that functionality, if there was a way to take that functionality that's already there and manipulate it to achieve the same goal. I just like the idea of actually USING the features that people keep having to update their mods for. As far as I can tell, the only potentially interesting feature introduced since 1.10 is that.

But if that's just not feasible, a mod based on it would surely be more flexible anyway.
Typo I meant modpack, the function is in vanilla. The pack would have the crafting guide as the quest book. And 1.12 has CONCRETE!!!!!
How dare you forget about concrete.
 

Drbretto

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What was I thinking about the concrete!

Oh yeah, I forgot about it because my 1.10 modpack has concrete :p
 

Nuclear_Creeper0

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I'm looking forward to future packs. The game has been a flop for me recently. This could kinda make me interested again.
 

Drbretto

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I'm looking forward to Continuum specifically. I really wanted to play Infinity hard mode but I just can't do 1.7, lol. So, I've been thirsty for a similar experience for a long time now. And I'm glad this thread was made because the hand-holding is kinda specifically what I was hoping to get out of it. I'm glad I was able to voice those opinions. And I love the points others have brought up here, too.
 

Nuclear_Creeper0

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I'm mainly looking for a pack that incorporates Astral Sorcery as the main Magic mod. Its awesome and its like 100% Craft Tweaker supported so adding things is super easy.
 
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Drbretto

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Part of the reason I'm looking for that hand holding is that I've never done a magic mod at all. I do need something to kind of guide me towards it.
 

Nedrith

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Indeed! I think that's what they did with AE2 in one of the mod packs (IE:E?) - you required an expensive item to make the critical components of an energy acceptor and a ME controller, and the rest was ok. Now, that said, I'm not 100% sure I liked them doing that because while computer storage can make certain things easier that you might not want them to, there is also an element of quality of life there.
What I loved about them doing that in IE:E was that they didn't just gate AE2 behind an expensive item and called it a day. They added logistics pipes which basically said to people, learn logistics pipes or deal with not having anywhere near as great automation for a long time. LP is a pretty old mod that is a nice early game solution even if it is a lot harder to use than AE2 or RS. One of the problems with AE2 or RS being a QoL feature is it basically kills all other mods like it because people just shoot straight for RS or AE2 and you can do almost anything with RS or AE2 with very little thought.

Reminds me of DW20's Age of Engineering playthrough. He skipped the majority of most mods including EnderIO's inventory panel which would have made his life a lot easier. Combined with something like RFTools modular storage it's a pretty powerful inventory storage solution.
 

GamerwithnoGame

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What I loved about them doing that in IE:E was that they didn't just gate AE2 behind an expensive item and called it a day. They added logistics pipes which basically said to people, learn logistics pipes or deal with not having anywhere near as great automation for a long time. LP is a pretty old mod that is a nice early game solution even if it is a lot harder to use than AE2 or RS. One of the problems with AE2 or RS being a QoL feature is it basically kills all other mods like it because people just shoot straight for RS or AE2 and you can do almost anything with RS or AE2 with very little thought.

Reminds me of DW20's Age of Engineering playthrough. He skipped the majority of most mods including EnderIO's inventory panel which would have made his life a lot easier. Combined with something like RFTools modular storage it's a pretty powerful inventory storage solution.
You make an excellent point there! I'd forgotten about the LP :) You're spot on.
 

Nuclear_Creeper0

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Part of the reason I'm looking for that hand holding is that I've never done a magic mod at all. I do need something to kind of guide me towards it.
Magic mods are incredibly unique. All of them function very differently with a similar system to tech mods, some sort of "Energy" system. Powering different custom crafting mechanics.
 
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Piripács

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I filled the survey, but I think there is much more than that, what makes a questing system good or bad.

I like to build and design different complex setups, to solve a problem, or just to make funky builds.
So in general I prefer quests that deals with complex setups and I like if the whole thing is like a real RPG, with different paths to solve the same thing.

Making 100 billion of the same item just to finish a quest, so you can progress further, that is just wrong to the core!
If someone just playing without quests, I think nobody ever will start to make billions of the same item.
Maybe in a huge server with gazillions of players, it make sense for building purpose or somthing like that, but I think most of the people playing those modpacks singleplayer or with just few friends. Those quests totally make no sense, even if there is explanation for why doing it. They just stupid.
I don't mind if I need to make lot of the same item and design a factory to produce it, if there is a real reason to do it. Like I need them to build something or use them for a purpose.
But in 95% of the quest-based packs, the complexity is all about that you need to build large and complex factory to produce millions of the same item, just to finish one quest and than never use that factory again for anything else. This is just waste of time.
Like I said,I like complexity, but NOT GRINDING! It doesn't metter that those complex setups made those items, or the player need to go and collect it, it is still just GRINDING. I hate that all the thing I have to do, is just build and design GRINDING FACTORIES!

For some strange reason this is one of the most common things in the Minecraft community.
Both the players and mod-makers think, that griding and complicated recipes is equals complexity. No, they are annoying, and just unnecessary wasting the players time.
I know there are lot of gregtechian masochists out there, but the same amount of people out there too, who hate grinding more that anything else or just simply don't have time for that.
Packs must be designed for both kind. There must be packs without any grinding for the commons, and there must be packs for the masochists.
I think it is already complex enough for most people, just to design and build various simple automations.

To be hones, I doesn't even want to call any of those packs "quest-based-pack".
They are really nothing else, just CHALLANGE MAPS with some fancy mumbo-jumbo around them what they call "quests". Sadly...

Another problem with those packs;
I like very much, that the quests starts like tutorials for a mod, to learn the basics, but the big problem is; no further help! Like, let's say;
The quests teach you how to craft and use a machine from a mod, than the next quest on that line is "Craft 999999 of Hyperender-realitymatrix-shifter corner-piece". And I just: WHAAAAAT?!?!? How?
I know that there are a lot of mods, and nobody have the time to write all the tutorials for all the mods, but I know that many diffenerent packs have really good tutorials in them for many mods. Those tutorials must be collected somewhere as resources, so the pack-makers can use them as resources. Everybody happy: player can learn the full mod, and the pack-maker can focus on their own storyline and quests.
Or must be written down in the first place that the pack don't have tutorials, you need to be a pro. In every mod that is out there...
That is really annoying to spend days playing a modpack, just to figure out, that some point I can't make any progress, because I don't familiar with a certain mod. A few times I doesn't even know what mod those items come from! You can start spend weeks to read wikis and/or watch 1000 hours of tutorial videos, or abandon the pack...
I think tutorials is a must have in a quest-based modpack or the player must be informed BEFORE THEY DOWNLOAD the pack if there is no full tutorial!

More problems;
Like I said in the first place; I want to play quests like in real RPG games; MORE STORY and MORE THAN ONE SOLUTION to the same problem, and more points in the qestline where you must choose how you progress further.
I think that is one of the key points that can make something complex and fun to play (and replay!) because the different paths.
I don't think packs offer that much different paths like I want to. I never started again any pack that I can finish, because even if I can choose a different path, they not so different that it worth replaying them.

I know that all this things that I like to see in a pack means a lot more work.
Not many people have that much time to make a good quest-based pack and most of them will be nothing more than challange-maps, like 95% of the packs. But those masochistic-grindfests must be called what they really are: CHALLANGE MAPS.
So who want to play something, because of the stroy and see what different paths can offer, will really find what they looking for.
And not just spend days playing just to realize that it's just another grindfest wrapped in fancy themes.

Questing, for me, means something RPG-ish thingy; more story driven strict paths, but there must be more VERY DIFFERENT paths to choose from, and no grinding at all!
Grinding is ok ONLY for challage-maps but not for questing!
 

mathwiz617

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I really liked what they did with IE:E. Give me instructions to get through the early game, give me an ultimate objective, and let me connect the dots from one to the other, referencing a guide when needed. I don't need or want to have my hand held the entire way through.
 

CaptPanda

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If FTB are planning on making a pack with a proper story, then I would honestly suggest they try and take a page from vanilla mapmakers and make it more adventure based. In my questionairre, I mentioned maps such as Vechs' Super Hostile, Parcel31u's ME series and even Technic's Blightfall modpack (which was originally a jampacked entry before FTB rejected it for some reason???) as they show excellent usage of having an expansive map and tying in worldbuilding into it.

I forsee a story based pack being based more on combat, Something that isn't really seen in FTB packs, and they could try picking up ideas from games such as the Dark Souls Series, Monster Hunter, or even the newer Super Hostile maps where killing mobs is a required step in progression, or at least provides that much more of a boon to the player.

Also I really hope that this will be a different pack to Continuum, that doesn't need more reason to be delayed any further.
 

Reddis

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I would prefer a hybrid of gated and open ended quests. If you separate the game by ages, prehistoric, ancient, medieval, industrial, 2nd industrial revolution, 20th century, 21st century, and beyond, you can gate technologies by era but leave the actual progression within each era up to the player.
 

Magzie

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Ok like some of the common mistakes I see is people making packs and assuming more complicated means harder. Or like when they put something cool in like skill leveling and then make all the mobs one shot you. Story packs don't have to be super hard to be good. I don't need to spawn in a pack to endermen spawning like the end auto aggroing to you and knock your weapons out of your hands to be hard. Tip for pack makers I think some don't know. People hate Enderman and wither witches if you stop using them to make packs "harder" no one will cry.
 
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