Solid Boilers after 1.5.1. Wood source?

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Mash

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Jul 29, 2019
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Umm... I don't know about your version of Minecraft, but in mine, that's what bonemeal does. It is fertilizer which significantly decreases the growth time of the tree.

If you are still working with vanilla concepts, there's likely quite a bit, but I don't have the time to go over all of them.

Okay, you're clearly lost, so I'll bring you up to speed.

We were comparing vanilla Minecraft tree growth to the tree growth implemented through Forestry multifarms.
Now, Forestry multifarms require fertilizer to operate at all. I had a problem with this because not only do normal trees not require that, but after you do use vanilla fertilizer, the dirt isn't turned into sand.

For whatever reason you brought up bonemeal, possibly to compare the vanilla fertilizer to the modded fertilizer, as if that supported your argument. I then promptly explained that the difference between vanilla fertilizer and the forestry fertilizer system is that the Forestry fertilizer; A) is not instantaneous, and B) ruins the dirt. It is not even remotely comparable to vanilla bone meal.

I even expressly said this in the part that you quoted. If you had taken a minute to actually comprehend the sentence you were reading, you would have caught it. "What I haven't heard of is a system in vanilla Minecraft that requires fertilizer, but doesn't significantly decrease the growth time of the tree."

See that? I said that I hadn't heard of a system that REQUIRES fertilizer in vanilla minecraft. Do trees require fertilizer to grow? Of course not. I then followed it with, 'but doesn't significantly decrease the growth of the tree'. Bonemeal DOES significantly decrease the growth time of the tree, so why on earth would you think I was talking about that?

We all caught up now?
 

EternalDensity

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leopard.PNG
Gotta love my s/leopard/leopard/g Tampermonkey script :D

Oh and thanks everyone for this entire thread, it's helpful to me for planning how to go about farming when the future arrives.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Eh, I just think people are thinking about them in the wrong perspective, and using them for the wrong dynamic.

Umm... it's called a 'fabricater'? Or an automated crafting bench and a couple of wooden pipes with autarchic gates? Seriously, it's not that hard to automate. Your mining operation picks it up by the stack-load, you convert it into fertilizer, you keep your farm filled with any of a half dozen methods ranging from RP2 Managers to using gates and pipe wires. If it's in a remote location, use item tesseracts to keep it linked in.

Fun fact, no other farming system is built expecting/demanding you constantly reset quarries. I do not want that. I actually am not even a fan of hands-free automatic mining, personally. That's my choice, but Forestry seems built around mandating I am constantly cutting a massive hole in a world on the off chance this chunk happens to have the right spawning conditions for apatite.

And again, why do I want this farm? It's more work than other farms. It's slower than other farms. It takes more energy than other farms. It has a higher resource cost than other farms. It requires more non-renewable inputs than other farms. It works on fewer things than other farms (although it is the only thing that works on forestry leaf drop products). I want it for exactly... seed oil, traditionally? Right?

Seriously. Please. Tell me why I'd use these farms over golems for anything but seed oil. I genuinely want to like them; I think they look cool and I love the tube+board design. I just think numerically and mechanically they are not awesome. And on my last server where I was deep into bees, I used seeds for seed oil from a 24x10 wheat farm run by golems. WIth no fertilization whatsoever. The output from that golem farm was enough for all my seed oil needs and them some.

Wait... bees don't require you to baby them? SINCE WHEN? They require nothing BUT manual hand-jiving until you have the species you are wanting fully established.

But you don't lose anything for walking away but productivity on things you only need for more bees. This is the clever part of bees: the initial ramp up is an opt in and at the END when you have all the tools you need to fully automate, extrabees kicks in with endless awesome. That's why bees work so well; they rain riches on the faithful. The Forestry Multifarms rain pennies on the dogged.


Apatite is found in nearly every chunk with terrain high enough to find it. And when you find some, it produces STACKS of the stuff. I've had no trouble keeping it maintained with my automated mining.

This is not my experience, nor the experience of many people here. Apatite occurs in huge veins but is generally fairly rare. I found maybe 20 stacks then never found any again. It certainly DOESN'T spawn in deep layers.

In what way is that a remotely similar principle?

An area that is lit stays lit. It does not require continuous intervention. It might be hell to properly light it, but once done it's done.
 

IMarvinTPA

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Jul 29, 2019
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Saltpeter dust + 2 Dirt + 2 Sand = Fertilizer
Ender Pearl Dust + Industrial Electrolizer = stuff to make Saltpeter dust

IMarv
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Fun fact, no other farming system is built expecting/demanding you constantly reset quarries. I do not want that. I actually am not even a fan of hands-free automatic mining, personally. That's my choice, but Forestry seems built around mandating I am constantly cutting a massive hole in a world on the off chance this chunk happens to have the right spawning conditions for apatite.

And again, why do I want this farm? It's more work than other farms. It's slower than other farms. It takes more energy than other farms. It has a higher resource cost than other farms. It requires more non-renewable inputs than other farms. It works on fewer things than other farms (although it is the only thing that works on forestry leaf drop products). I want it for exactly... seed oil, traditionally? Right?

Seriously. Please. Tell me why I'd use these farms over golems for anything but seed oil. I genuinely want to like them; I think they look cool and I love the tube+board design. I just think numerically and mechanically they are not awesome. And on my last server where I was deep into bees, I used seeds for seed oil from a 24x10 wheat farm run by golems. WIth no fertilization whatsoever. The output from that golem farm was enough for all my seed oil needs and them some.
Honestly, first tell me what I need to farm in the first place. I like the multiblock farms for the Orchard mechanics, because it makes rubber tree farms, gathering seed oil, and apple juice, much easier. Fire and forget simplicity. All in the same farm, even. Remember, you're not just getting one farm for your costs, you're getting four of them.

I very rarely bother with wheat except maybe in the very beginning. Carrots? Potatoes? Please, one small planting is enough to give me more than a full stack of the stuff. And it'll regrow LONG before I get close to being done with that stack. It isn't used in anything other than being eaten, or in certain Thaumcraft essences (for carrots particularly). It gives me zero incentive to stockpile swarms of it. Melons and Pumpkins? Same deal. I just don't use them often enough or in enough quantity to bother stockpiling. Reeds, I can see stockpiling. Paper is a continuously used resource in several mods. And a golem farm works quite well, indeed much better for that particular task.

Honestly enough? I see the managed tree farm useful primarily because of the additional biomass I get out of the saplings. But then, I'm also not interested in stockpiling a few thousand logs, either. Heck, look at DW20, he had to turn it off because it was about to overflow the upgraded barrel. That's way more wood than any one person, heck I'd even go so far as to say any one server needs. Logs I see as a useless byproduct of the saplings. Anyone can get wood easy enough. Maximizing your biomass production, however, is somewhat more difficult.

But you don't lose anything for walking away but productivity on things you only need for more bees. This is the clever part of bees: the initial ramp up is an opt in and at the END when you have all the tools you need to fully automate, extrabees kicks in with endless awesome. That's why bees work so well; they rain riches on the faithful. The Forestry Multifarms rain pennies on the dogged.
I wouldn't go quite that far. And honestly, I think Extra Bees goes a bit too far on that. Sure, it's hours of headache and pain, but then you've obviated all the farms, and the simple solution to any problem is 'a bee does it'. Not to mention mining, mob farming, and pretty much any other form of resource gathering. I fully expect a fertilizer bee in the next update.

This is not my experience, nor the experience of many people here. Apatite occurs in huge veins but is generally fairly rare. I found maybe 20 stacks then never found any again. It certainly DOESN'T spawn in deep layers.
Which is why I said it occurs in nearly every chunk high enough for it to spawn in. Also, who bothers with quarries anymore?

An area that is lit stays lit. It does not require continuous intervention. It might be hell to properly light it, but once done it's done.
Which still has nothing to do with the price of tea in china, unless you are attempting to make a correlation between automation of complex machinery and placing torches, which would be so stretched it would be like trying to fit Rosie O'donnel in a Size Zero spandex suit.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Honestly, first tell me what I need to farm in the first place. I like the multiblock farms for the Orchard mechanics, because it makes rubber tree farms, gathering seed oil, and apple juice, much easier. Fire and forget simplicity. All in the same farm, even. Remember, you're not just getting one farm for your costs, you're getting four of them.

MFR already works for all this at a fraction of the cost.
 

DoctorOr

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Jul 29, 2019
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Seriously. Please. Tell me why I'd use these farms over golems for anything but seed oil.

Somebody should tell me why I'd use it for seed oil. Growing a walnut or chestnut and walking away from it for long enough for all the leaves to ripen and then chopping it down will give you several stacks of nuts. I just don't see a need for even industrial scale production necessary to bother automating it.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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MFR already works for all this at a fraction of the cost.
I've heard quite a bit about MFR lately. To be honest, the more I hear about it, the less inclined I am to try it for precisely this reason. Some things *should* come at a cost, in my opinion.

But hey, that's the great thing about Minecraft. I can run with GregTech in Full 'Nerf' Mode enabled in config settings, you can run with your MFR and Turtles, and we can both enjoy the game in different ways.
 

Chocorate

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Jul 29, 2019
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Not using Stevecarts, it has the same thing that turns me off from IC2, every item is made from like 6 different components which come from 6 more.

Forestry multifarms and taking out the good farms were one of I think Sengirs biggest mistakes. They're too complex and they use fertilizer, and it seems to me like a huge gimmick.

I'll be using MFR, one of the few mods that still uses vanilla recipes instead of convoluted lines of 46 items. It's simplicity. There is no need for complexity, all it does is make things take longer and require more NEI use.
 
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DoctorOr

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Also, is there a way to automate the gathering of saltpeter?

Sure, a quarry digging up cracked sand or soul sand, or a convoluted lengthy process with ender pearls. (All of which requires GregTech, btw)

Now, why do I need a mining mechanism for my farm again?
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Somebody should tell me why I'd use it for seed oil. Growing a walnut or chestnut and walking away from it for long enough for all the leaves to ripen and then chopping it down will give you several stacks of nuts. I just don't see a need for even industrial scale production necessary to bother automating it.
Because you don't ever need to replant it, and it fully automates the process. Chestnuts are pulled via hatch into your squeezer, where the seed oil is automatically sent to your holding tank and your spare mulch is sent to your fermenter setup.
 

DoctorOr

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Because you don't ever need to replant it, and it fully automates the process.

You didn't even listen. One tree, which I'll do manually, would build all the alvearies I want (I have 40 in place and the fully constructed blocks for 38 more)

Why do I need a farm?
 

Mash

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Jul 29, 2019
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MFR has a cost. A very reasonable cost.

Forestry has a realistically unreasonable cost.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Sure, a quarry digging up cracked sand or soul sand, or a convoluted lengthy process with ender pearls.

Now, why do I need a mining mechanism for my farm again?
Cracked sand? Ergh, I disabled Extra Biomes because of the umpteenbazillionty different biomes, none of them having any spawns which are relevant to my interests (villages, TC3, Ars Magica worldgen...). Sure, the quicksand is a cute way of making a mob grinder, but that's about it. Everything else is just... terrain I have to cover to find what I am actually looking for.

And how common is soul sand that you are going to be quarrying it with that much frequency?
 

Enigmius1

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Jul 29, 2019
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Warm up is not the same thing as operational. The presumption is that you store a quantity of fuel before turning on the boiler. The error occurred between keyboard and chair.

You assume waaaaaaaay too much. Boiler 1 ran at 1000 degrees when I fed it a bunch of surplus fuel I had lying around. I said as much. You clearly did not read as much, but I did say it.

Are you still with me and understanding?

Boiler 1 did not stay at 1000 degrees, because instead of storing the surplus to keep it going between deliveries from the cart, overflow was going to Boiler 2.

Have I lost you yet?

I acknowledged that if I shut down boiler 2 and funneled all fuel to boiler 1 it would likely have no trouble running at 1000 degrees indefinitely. Another thing I said that you did not read, so I'm saying it again for you.

Did you catch that part?

1 cart cannot sustain two boilers. If it could, I would have 2 boilers at 1000 degrees. I do not have 2 boilers at 1000 degrees. When they share fuel, I get 2 boilers < 300 degrees.

Stop being such an abrasive imbecile. If you can't comment without being a douche, don't comment.
 

DoctorOr

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You assume waaaaaaaay too much. Boiler 1 ran at 1000 degrees when I fed it a bunch of surplus fuel I had lying around. I said as much. You clearly did not read as much, but I did say it.

The message I responded too has no mention of preheating. Here, let me quote you to yourself:

No, I've got quite a large number of trees growing. The cart fills up as fast as a cart can fill up, drops off the goods at a cargo manager and continues on. The saplings get sorted out for biomass, the logs go through sawmills. The planks and charcoal (from sawdust) go to a vanilla chest in front of the first boiler. When that's full, planks and charcoal continue down the line to a second vanilla chest in front of a second boiler. By the time another batch comes in, the first boiler is around 250 degrees and the second is usually below 100. So if I take the second boiler out and retune the delivery for the first 36 HP boiler, it would most likely cap out, but there's absolutely no way I'd get two boilers capped from one cart.

1 cart cannot sustain two boilers. If it could, I would have 2 boilers at 1000 degrees. I do not have 2 boilers at 1000 degrees. When they share fuel, I get 2 boilers < 300 degrees.

One cart growing vanilla oak trees, using track laid down to take up roughly an entire chunk, in 1.4.7, can easily support two solid fuel boilers and a number of liquid fueled besides, with an excess left over of wood. I know from experience. Many other people have similar experiences

You did something wrong.
 
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