I can try to help with that, looks at project at works, maybe I can...........
PROJECT CREATOR
- Thread starter LivingAngryCheese
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This will be a while in the future though. I don't think I mentioned, but my dad is so annoying, I have to go through a book about python before I can learn java.
You don't seem to think much. You should try school.My one comment on the entire idea
Sorry that was rude.
Meh it was fine
I don't like school anyway. BTW if you need any help on the programming side give me a ring
*instantly phone rings* nah I'm kidding. I want to try to do this myself.Meh it was fine
I don't like school anyway. BTW if you need any help on the programming side give me a ring
but thanks for the offer.
The thing is with this project you don't need/ almost don't need java and it may be better without is as you should try to make it as universal as possible in my opinion.
Hm, that is definitely not what I expected.
I don't think that the problem is modders asking for money. They already do that through donations and Patreon, and they do recieve money this way.
So if you need to pay money to get certain perks, is that not both pay-to-win and forced pay? And I think making it a recurring payment every month is making it even worse.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem that modders can recieve money for their work. But I think the current system with donations and Patreon is a good compromise between this and making mods available for as many people as possible. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with something like this.
I don't think that the problem is modders asking for money. They already do that through donations and Patreon, and they do recieve money this way.
So if you need to pay money to get certain perks, is that not both pay-to-win and forced pay? And I think making it a recurring payment every month is making it even worse.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem that modders can recieve money for their work. But I think the current system with donations and Patreon is a good compromise between this and making mods available for as many people as possible. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with something like this.
Oh, I missed the "cosmetic and non-gamechanging".
Hm, I still don't see the necessity for this and how it would be any better (for modders and players) than what we have currently.
Love the idea. Its like optifine. Cmon who doesn't have an Optifine cape.. Nobody.. Oh..
But i think it is promising
For the money part i suggest using paypal its easy to set up and easy to use for people who'd like to pay
You shoud tell other modders about this (big ones) See what they think. If they don't like it. Then your mod won't be used by them.
If you want help i started learning java 1 week ago ^_^ so i'd love to try to help on a project. I also know a fare bit about the website things
But i think it is promising
For the money part i suggest using paypal its easy to set up and easy to use for people who'd like to pay
You shoud tell other modders about this (big ones) See what they think. If they don't like it. Then your mod won't be used by them.
If you want help i started learning java 1 week ago ^_^ so i'd love to try to help on a project. I also know a fare bit about the website things
@LivingAngryCheese, you seem like a decent enough person, but this (like many kickstarter proposals I've seen) looks to boil down to something like:
Problem:
Solution:
Apparent Motivation:
Qualifications:
Risks:
Potentially alarming points:
Unlike the "Humble Bundle" reference above, where once you've bought something it's yours forever, you propose a system where a person could theoretically have perks removed if they don't continue to "donate". Even PBS lets you keep the darn T-Shirt...
Within someone's server? *cough*, *gasp*, potential security hole big enough to drive a truck through.
I am certainly NOT meaning to come off sounding like a jerk, as I think your idea is based on a good intention. It just seems to have a few little leaks and cracks here and there, and it smells like someone may have stuffed a funky sock between the cushions at some point.
If nothing else, perhaps the above will inspire you to re-think or re-phrase some aspects of your idea that may not have come across as intended.
Problem:
LivingAngryCheese said:
Solution:
LivingAngryCheese said:
Apparent Motivation:
This sounds like you're trying to make yourself the "Humble Bundle" of Minecraft Mods, where you could potentially make a few nickles here and there off of every (participating) mod. Not inherently evil or anything, but if successful, positions you to make more money off the mods than the modders themselves.LivingAngryCheese said:
Qualifications:
LivingAngryCheese said:
Risks:
LivingAngryCheese said:
Potentially alarming points:
Potential for favoritism, assumes maintainer of database is ethical.LivingAngryCheese said:
Payment must meet some minimum level or get rejected, priority given to larger donors -- This doesn't at all smell funny to you? Really?LivingAngryCheese said:
Potential for "punishment" or favoritism, assumes maintainer of database is ethical.LivingAngryCheese said:
Unlike the "Humble Bundle" reference above, where once you've bought something it's yours forever, you propose a system where a person could theoretically have perks removed if they don't continue to "donate". Even PBS lets you keep the darn T-Shirt...
Within the database? Practically every comment above applies.LivingAngryCheese said:
Within someone's server? *cough*, *gasp*, potential security hole big enough to drive a truck through.
I am certainly NOT meaning to come off sounding like a jerk, as I think your idea is based on a good intention. It just seems to have a few little leaks and cracks here and there, and it smells like someone may have stuffed a funky sock between the cushions at some point.
If nothing else, perhaps the above will inspire you to re-think or re-phrase some aspects of your idea that may not have come across as intended.
You misinterpreted some things
That isn't what he meant. He meant he would reject the mod, not the donors
He meant the user could turn it off client-side
Clarification never hurts. Essentially then, priority is given to mod authors who opt for a smaller percentage of shares and thereby increasing the potential payout for charity and himself. Correct? Again, not implying anything, just making sure the idea is clear and not misunderstood. A mod author that wants 80% to himself, 15% to charity and 5% to @LivingAngryCheese would get greater priority than an author that wanted 90% for himself, 6% for charity, and 4% for @LivingAngryCheese. (going by the statement about charity getting more, otherwise just pulling numbers out of the air)
What do you mean the user could turn it off client-side? Why on earth would a user want to disable their own perks? If you mean a mod-author can toggle perks on and off on a per-user basis whenever they wish, for whatever reason they choose, I still maintain that is a slippery slope.
As a side note, I think I got my dander slightly ruffled with the reference to the community being "snakes". As someone earlier in the forum pointed out when referring to the Ex Nihilo 2 funding effort, one should also not ignore the fact that a large portion of the target audience does not necessarily have disposable income, whether due to young age, limited or no income, or some other reason. The distinction wasn't really made.
I don't think the idea that mod/content creators should be able to request compensation for their mod is a bad one if people want to donate. I personally think a simple framework and associated API could be written that allow just this sort of "added perks" thing for modders to use without all the extra bells and whistles of a website and a middleman. If a mod author uses that API to toggle optional "cosmetic only" content and it doesn't inherently violate the Minecraft EULA, that's way less complicated than what it sounds like is proposed above.
In regards to "donations", like everything else ("that's why we can never have nice things!") some will take it to the extreme, and push the limits until they bleed. The "pay-to-win" types pretty much covered that base. Regardless of your stance on the topic, it is what it is, and that contributes to the general atmosphere whenever the topic is brought up.
I think Patreon provides a pretty decent alternative for several modders, and though I'm sure Patreon gets a chunk of those donations too, it gives users a personalized portal to each mod author, and provides various social gizmos and sparkly-things to incentivize donors to keep donating. This, combined with the framework/API idea I mentioned up above, would seem to satisfy almost everything a mod author would want, short of a potentially larger cut of the donations.
What @LivingAngryCheese needs to propose is an offering that brings something of significant tangible benefit to both the mod author and the donor. Capes can (and have) been done. Per-mod, per-user perks are either entirely client-side ("Ooh, I look like a sparkle pony!" -- "Not on my screen. You just look like Steve.") or they require other clients/servers to also have the mod installed. The site needs to then communicate with each client/server on some sort of semi-regular basis to communicate which users have what perks. This needs to be fairly frequent and consistent, or the "toggle" mentioned above could have a significant delay before the change goes into effect.
If this requires others to have the mod as well for the "perk" to have any significance, you then need to provide some sort of incentive for people who have no interest in the mod themselves to have it installed anyway so Mr. Sparkle Pony can look that way to people other than just himself. A modder building this into their own mod already provides a reason for their mod to exist on a server or client. @LivingAngryCheese needs to have one as well. See the difference?
As I said at the beginning, I am not trying to disparage the idea. I'm trying to point out possible deficiencies in the concept. If this results in a better idea, great. If not, no harm done.
Edit: Minor quoting snafu.
I personally think it's a good idea, however @Senseidragon raises some pretty good points relative to the turning off perks client side.
There is a lot of things like this already, which is a point that's already been brought up several times but hell, I'll add on to it, so what's to stop someone else from making something like this, just removing the minimum amount needed to go to charity, and a slight amount to you? Yes it would be unethical considering this is your idea originally, but hey, ethics doesn't always play a part online.
There is a lot of things like this already, which is a point that's already been brought up several times but hell, I'll add on to it, so what's to stop someone else from making something like this, just removing the minimum amount needed to go to charity, and a slight amount to you? Yes it would be unethical considering this is your idea originally, but hey, ethics doesn't always play a part online.
One of the reasons Ex Nihilo 2 just didn't make it's wanted goal, it just wasn't a project a lot of people saw worth donating for, a lot of people, myself included, wanted to support the person, but would much rather just give the moral support than pay money for a KickStarter project for a singular mod, knowing that the project might not even make it ( which it didn't, partially to a lot of people have the same thought train i had).
It's early in the morning, so I don't know if I'm understanding everything properly but here we go. I'll simplify it. Cosmetic perks. Not even small perks like making sifting 5% quicker for example. Only cosmetic. Charity donation is still an option, but donation to me is not, With my mod you can donate to me though for cosmetic perks. I think this is fair because it puts me on the same level as other modders. Forget the powers over your own mod. I legitimately didn't realize how fishy it sounded. To be honest, I just thought, well hey! It's optional! Maybe I could still try to make money out of modding! Yes I meant they could turn it off client side. Well why would they want to do that? Well maybe if you've donated to two different modders, the cosmetic things might conflict, like two hats for example. I know this won't be a common issue, but it might be for some people. But I still feel that I would work on cosmetic perks for modders who are more generous to charity first, I don't understand what's wrong with that, it would help if you could clarify that.
I want referring to the ex nihilo 2 effort, I was referring to the steam moment, and someone's blog the creator of ex nihilo retweeted. They upset me really. That was why I wanted to make this project.
I want referring to the ex nihilo 2 effort, I was referring to the steam moment, and someone's blog the creator of ex nihilo retweeted. They upset me really. That was why I wanted to make this project.
note I will use the word bought here as it is technically what you want people to do and I don't want to write a sentence to describe it every time I need to use it. It is not a point of criticisms or bad in my opinion.
If you make this , first make the site and the database in such a way that it is easy to expand and include more software.
If you have done that go ahead and make an api for mods if you so desire.
This way modders don't need your api to get the needed information and thus it could easily be adopted for other things. The only thing that is troublesome is the fact that different companies have different login systems meaning that the site needs some more info
when a player wants to donate he needs an account for your site this way you can easily keep track of who bought what. Then an user makes a profile for certain games if more will be supported. So lets say user foo wants to use it.
foo creates account -> chooses games gives information needed to get his UUID for said game->buys stuff
then when he launches said game a mod would send a request to your server including a special key so that the server knows what information the mod needs and the UUID from user foo
this way the only reason why you would want an api for minecraft is to let players disable or enable certain bought features/content.
This wall of text is not to discourage you from making it or to force you to go this route, it is only written to show one of the ways it is possible to accomplish your goal and the one I would choose. If you want to do it another way go ahead and if you need help always feel free to ask no matter how you are trying to accomplish it.
If you make this , first make the site and the database in such a way that it is easy to expand and include more software.
If you have done that go ahead and make an api for mods if you so desire.
This way modders don't need your api to get the needed information and thus it could easily be adopted for other things. The only thing that is troublesome is the fact that different companies have different login systems meaning that the site needs some more info
when a player wants to donate he needs an account for your site this way you can easily keep track of who bought what. Then an user makes a profile for certain games if more will be supported. So lets say user foo wants to use it.
foo creates account -> chooses games gives information needed to get his UUID for said game->buys stuff
then when he launches said game a mod would send a request to your server including a special key so that the server knows what information the mod needs and the UUID from user foo
this way the only reason why you would want an api for minecraft is to let players disable or enable certain bought features/content.
This wall of text is not to discourage you from making it or to force you to go this route, it is only written to show one of the ways it is possible to accomplish your goal and the one I would choose. If you want to do it another way go ahead and if you need help always feel free to ask no matter how you are trying to accomplish it.
Hmmm I was thinking kind of the opposite. You would enter your email address and pay, then it would send you a one-time use code that could be used in game to claim your cosmetic perk.