Primitive firearms for Tinker's Construct?

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Would anyone want to see black powder firearms implemented in Tinker's Construct?


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Iluvalar

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Jul 29, 2019
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As said earlier, there is already a ranged weapon in TiCo and it's the bow.

There is NO REASON to make a ranged weapon even stronger as mDiyo already balanced the bow to a amount that he judged to be balanced. At best, we'd endup with a new weapon that shoot twice as fast as a bow and do the "pew pew" sound at cost of half the damage per shot.

Everything else being equal, I wouldn't see the point.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

Too Much Free Time
Dec 8, 2012
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It could be a really cool thing or a really bad thing depending on how it was implemented. I'd definitely say it's better as an addon than included into TiCo as a whole.

I can certainly see the appeal in having firearms. It just doesn't make sense for me to have other technological-age tools and be stuck using something like a bow and arrow as my only real ranged option. There is the needle gun from MFR, and that works out pretty well actually.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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As said earlier, there is already a ranged weapon in TiCo and it's the bow.

There is NO REASON to make a ranged weapon even stronger as mDiyo already balanced the bow to a amount that he judged to be balanced. At best, we'd endup with a new weapon that shoot twice as fast as a bow and do the "pew pew" sound at cost of half the damage per shot.

Everything else being equal, I wouldn't see the point.
Have to disagree. There was already a bow in minecraft before the TiCo bow, so preceeding items aren't an argument against upgrades. It just has to be sufficiently different to make sense.

I think a musket would be fun; I love the RoC gravel-gun, but its a bit (massively) overpowered. Something in the middle ground between a bow and that gun would add entertainment value for me.

Or maybe some sort of shotgun/blunderbus that could hit multiple enemies at once.

Whichever: so long as the sound effect is loud and awesome I approve of it.

Edited: Illuvalar's balance concerns notwithstanding.
 
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Iluvalar

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Jul 29, 2019
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Edited: Illuvalar's balance concerns notwithstanding.
ok ok. Mdyio could make a set of "crossbow" and "guns" models. That would actualy do exactly like a bow. Except the gun would go *pew pew* to satisfy some player base. And the crossbow could stay loaded at the cost of some reload time.

He could also make new projectiles, like flechettes, pellets and bullets. Which would be quicker and quicker to reload at the cost of damage. They would also drop less and therefore be easier to aim, but at the cost of the material since you would produce the same amount then arrows for the same amount of material.

Also, a spread modifier why not.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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ok ok. Mdyio could make a set of "crossbow" and "guns" models. That would actualy do exactly like a bow. Except the gun would go *pew pew* to satisfy some player base. And the crossbow could stay loaded at the cost of some reload time.
Now now, I'm not done yet.

It'll go bang bang, not pew pew, because bangs are louder and cooler. It'll do more damage because more damage is better than less damage and balance is boring when it comes to guns.

And it'll bake me a damn pie.

But yeah, if this is some sort of expansion/add-on to the original mod, it's tolerably acceptable that it should have "better" weaponry at some increased cost.
 

Frontrider

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Jul 29, 2019
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Now now, I'm not done yet.

It'll go bang bang, not pew pew, because bangs are louder and cooler. It'll do more damage because more damage is better than less damage and balance is boring when it comes to guns.

And it'll bake me a damn pie.

But yeah, if this is some sort of expansion/add-on to the original mod, it's tolerably acceptable that it should have "better" weaponry at some increased cost.

Ballance is the best thing when it comes to a mod/add-on. Cheap OP stuff is uncool.

Large damage+"long" reload time+hard aiming. And then you have a good gun, whitch can fit into it.
 

null123

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2014
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Is the bow not enough? I could see something like a cross bow, but even then it's kind of "meh." Fire arms just doesn't seem like a tinker's construct thing. Sure, if someone wanted to go out and make a fire arms add-on for TiC, then go right ahead. I really don't think it should be something that's in Tinker's Construct itself.
Cross bows, that would be awesome. It would also fit into TiC. Some kind of T3 workbench would be awesome, with the crossbow being one of the T3 tools. I cant think of anything else that would really go into T3, but Im sure some others could.
 

darkeshrine

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Jul 29, 2019
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The only issue with cross bows is that they aren't different enough from normal bows. Maybe if they didn't fire arrows but weaker bolts. Make it's base attack lower and add another part that could make room for another modifier. In the end, i really don't think there would be enough of a difference between cross bows and normal bows. You'd either make the cross bow better or worse than the normal bow, meaning whichever is better is the only one to really get used.
 

null123

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2014
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The only issue with cross bows is that they aren't different enough from normal bows. Maybe if they didn't fire arrows but weaker bolts. Make it's base attack lower and add another part that could make room for another modifier. In the end, i really don't think there would be enough of a difference between cross bows and normal bows. You'd either make the cross bow better or worse than the normal bow, meaning whichever is better is the only one to really get used.
Maybe. Crossbows (in my opinion) should be like the T2 tools. By this I mean that T2 tools dont replace theit normal counterparts by any means. They just do certain things better. It should be the same thing with the crossbow. Maybe have it fire multiple arrows (or even better; bolts. Bolts could be made only out of metals, to help balance out the crossbow further) at once, at the cost of damage/speed. Or even better (again, in my opinion) have a rather expensive T3 tool forge, which could make the crossbow, (along with other T3 tools). Thoughts?
 

darkeshrine

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Jul 29, 2019
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I like the idea of a solid metal(or any other arrow head material) bolt. It should have the same downside to having heavier arrows just like normal TiC arrows. Cross bows also have a weaker draw strength than a normal short bow. Cross bows have yet another downside, unlike a short bow, there's no premature firing. With a short bow, if you were to need to, you could fire without a complete draw of the bow. Cross bows have a reload time, not a draw speed.

I think, instead of cross bows, i'd much rather see a long bow. A long bow is basically the same, meaning that they could be made with the same parts using the same mechanics. The kicker is that long bow has a slower draw time, but the arrows can go farther. It's definitely something that would be worth it. It always kind of bothered me that TiC had a bunch of different sword types but only one bow.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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The problem with the Crossbow is that, while awesome, it just doesn't fit in Steve's world. The Crossbow was originally invented because archers took for freeking ever to train, were paid as specialists rather than as grunts, and in general were a very valuable resource. The Crossbow was something any grunt with six weeks of training could aim in more or less the right direction and let fly at a mass of bodies (also known as a formation) and hope to have some effect.

In fact, one could say that the musket was the improvement over the Crossbow, rather than the Longbow, since a Longbow still had a greater rate of fire, greater range, and (with the Grey Goose cloth yard shaft) greater penetration. The musket, however, could be fired en masse by impressed/conscripted soldiers with minimal training. It was a quantity over quality thing.

It wasn't until the Winchester Repeating Rifle or the Colt Peacemaker that firearms had any qualitative advantage over a good archer.

However, if you wish to create a gun that would fit in Steve's world, we're going to probably be looking at something like the Kentucky Long Rifle, and do a bit of... creative anachronism.

So, we're looking at a flintlock in the .45 caliber range. Now for the anachronism. We're going to be taking a bit of an idea from the paper cartridge, only without the fulminated mercury. Basically, you carefully measure your powder into a piece of paper, put your shot into it, fold it up and twist it. When you need to reload, you rip off the top with your teeth, pour in the powder, use the paper as wadding, and ram the shot home. This gives Steve the reliability and consistency of burn needed for true marksmanship with a rifle, and without the fumbling around with a powder horn.

Technically, it's only an anachronism because while such paper cartridges were around as early as 1600, perhaps even earlier, they were not often used with rifles, because the entire cartridges were dropped into a musket. So you'd have to rip it off and pour it in to get the advantage of the rifling. This technique was not used en masse until the Civil War era. But hey, if Daniel Boone can do it, so can Steve!

Therefore, here's what we're looking at, mechanics-wise:

To make the shot requires a ball, a gunpowder, and a paper. It's not a shapeless recipe, so you have to do it in a crafting table, to represent the fact that you're carefully measuring the gunpowder before hand rather than being a 'field expediency'. The ball is cast in a smeltery, one lead ingot will cast eight balls. Historically, lead was used because it was malleable (was able to be rammed into the rifling and fit the grooves) and because you could melt it into the cast over a campfire. Since we're still using a fairly primitive means of using rifling, no other metal will really be able to engage the rifling, so only lead will do.

Reloading the rifle requires a combine in your crafting square (shapeless) of your rifle, your shot, and your ramrod. This represents the additional time it took to reload a rifle over a musket.

Now, we need a new table, in addition to the Tool Forge. This is the Gunsmithing Table, and is used to construct the flintlock mechanism. Unlike typical TiCo mechanics, the flintlock mechanism is made on an anvil rather than cast, so we're going to be crafting much like a typical wooden pattern, using iron to make the thing. The barrel is cast, then you need to bore it at the gunsmithing table to give it the rifling. The stock is effectively the 'handle', and affects durability as any handle material would.

The combine for the gun must be done at the Tool Forge (not station). Stock + Flintlock Mechanism + Rifled Barrel = gun.

It should probably start out at 10 hearts, however should not gain any bonuses from modifiers, including modifiers to ammunition. Therefore eventually a bow CAN be a better weapon, but it requires a lot of modifying and resource investment to do.
 

tedyhere

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Jul 29, 2019
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If there was a gun add on with primitive guns. It should take a minimum of 5 seconds to reload and be a multi step process. You should also need a powder horn, wadding made of paper, and lead/stone/iron or any ammunition. Heck get more realistic and make them more like scatterguns so you have to put a small pile of ammo in the end. Powerful but takes forever to reload, great for an opening shot but pretty worthless afterwards.
 

Frontrider

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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If there was a gun add on with primitive guns. It should take a minimum of 5 seconds to reload and be a multi step process. You should also need a powder horn, wadding made of paper, and lead/stone/iron or any ammunition. Heck get more realistic and make them more like scatterguns so you have to put a small pile of ammo in the end. Powerful but takes forever to reload, great for an opening shot but pretty worthless afterwards.

Got the same point as me.