Primitive firearms for Tinker's Construct?

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Would anyone want to see black powder firearms implemented in Tinker's Construct?


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    42

FastTquick

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Jul 29, 2019
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After seeing how many varieties of tools and weapons the player could craft in Tinker's Construct, I just realized that there's been a type of weapon that I feel has been overlooked here. Since there are very few mods I know that allow players to craft firearms, I think that mDiyo should add various firearms to the list of weapons players could craft.
To keep things balanced, the firearms that players could create shouldn't be based on modern firearms. Instead, they should be based on the primitive black powder weapons that were prevalent from the 1500s until the late half of the 1800s like muskets, blunderbusses, and hand cannons. One general rule should be that the weapons could be made out of three parts, the stock, the firing pin, and the barrel. The barrel could be made out of metals from iron all the way up to manyullyn and the stronger the material used, the more durable and more accurate the weapon could be. The stock can be made out of any material from wood all the way up to manyullyn and the strength of the material used could determine the reinforced durability of the weapon or be used to add extra modifiers such as stonebound or add extra modifier slots. Finally, the firing pin is just made out of iron and a flint n' steel in a normal vanilla crafting recipe. Another general rule is that firearms should be more powerful and have greater range than a bow, but it can only fire one shot before reloading and it takes longer to reload than a bow.

Here is a list of the various types of firearms I would suggest for this mod:

Musket: A weapon that is made out of four parts, the barrel, the firing pin, the stock, and the bayonet to give it melee capabilities. The weapon is capable of hitting targets at long range and the player can deal damage up close using the bayonet. However, crafting the musket is pretty expensive and uses a good amount of materials to make the individual parts.
Pistol: A cheaper version of the musket that the player can create with fewer resources, but at the cost of less overall range, less damage, and the lack of melee capabilities.
Blunderbuss: A powerful weapon that's lethal only at close range. Is really effective in tight corridors against a group of mobs like zombies for example. Requires players to spend an extra bit of resources to get a large barrel and a large stock.

Players can craft different types of ammo and firearms must be loaded with specific types of ammo and gunpowder for each specific type of gun. Players can craft bullets for the musket or pistol while they can also craft shot for the blunderbuss. Ammo can be made out of three materials such as stone, quartz, and lead, and the damage they do is determined by the material used. Stone is the weakest material to make ammo with, but is easier to craft since the material is the most common. Quartz is much stronger, but the material is obviously harder to come by. Finally, lead ammo is the most powerful material, but it requires the player to craft it out of lead ingots.

Overall, I think firearms would be a great idea for Tinker's Construct and I hope that mDiyo takes my idea to heart. What do you guys think?
 

Sidorion

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Jul 29, 2019
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1st: mDiyo never 'should' something in his mod. You'd appreciate a lot, if he would.;)

2nd: A musket is a weapon with a smooth barrel (not drawn) which shot round bullets that were significantly smaller than the caliber of the weapon. Both characteristics lead to a slow flying instable unprecise projectile with a maximum effective range of about thirty yards (further away you cannot do any damage even when you hit) not to mention the spreading which makes it nearly impossible to hit a man-sized target at that distance. In fact in historical battles fought with muskets only about 5% of the bullets shot actually harmed anybody.
The far ranged weapon of that time you're looking for is called rifle. Early forms of that weapon only were used for hunting and it took a long time to reload them (the bullet had to be stuffed into the barrel with the loading stick and a hammer) and beacuse of the crusts the gun smoke left in the barrel the gun had to be cleaned after every shot.

3rd: I'd suggest (since you mentioned 15th to 18th century) replacing the needle with a flint lock.
 

AlCapella

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Jul 29, 2019
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Let's follow UNIX's mantra: Let's do one thing at a time, let's do that one thing well :)

1. There's actually a mod just for weapons, with medieval weapons and shooting weapons (yes, it has a musket)
2. And if you want to go all gung-ho on weapons, there's flan's mod for that. :)

I know it is a pain to add new mods (specially if you are playing on a server running a specific mod pack), but if popular mods start to leverage their existing modpack ubiquity and subsume other mods' features into themselves, that would be unfair to the other mods, yes? Remember the early days of IE being bundled into Windows to cut into Netscape's user base?
 

Vasa

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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i remmember when my friend destroyed my marble temple back in 1.2.5 . :s
 

darkeshrine

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Jul 29, 2019
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Is the bow not enough? I could see something like a cross bow, but even then it's kind of "meh." Fire arms just doesn't seem like a tinker's construct thing. Sure, if someone wanted to go out and make a fire arms add-on for TiC, then go right ahead. I really don't think it should be something that's in Tinker's Construct itself.
 

Sleepyscumbag

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Jul 29, 2019
102
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Is the bow not enough? I could see something like a cross bow, but even then it's kind of "meh." Fire arms just doesn't seem like a tinker's construct thing. Sure, if someone wanted to go out and make a fire arms add-on for TiC, then go right ahead. I really don't think it should be something that's in Tinker's Construct itself.
What would be really cool in TConstruct is Oriental weapons.
 

boondockArtist

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Jul 29, 2019
165
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Alright, so I also have been wanting an add-on for firearms in TiC style, to an extent that I'd try to make it myself or at least help the best I could, now here's my thoughts on this.
-Most of your ideas are nice! When I was thinking I was only considering like, one type of firearm, but three sounds alright too.

-Hm...since they ARE guns, I'd say since they're that primitive, they'd need at least some gunpowder to operate, alongside your ammunition. It'd be smart to keep a stack of that crap on you if you ever plan on getting into many fights.

-The firearms could have "Tiers" or grades, as well as a separate grade for ammunition. Meaning, it isn't exactly smart to be shooting fully decked-out manulynn ammunition in an iron gun, it tears the gun apart, literally and metaphorically, really killing durability.

-I thought that there could at least be a wooden grade of firearms, but they are mostly for desperate beginners that want to have a taste on what it's like to shoot some lead into the zombies that roam the night. The downside to this bashfulness of jumping right in is the fact that this grade of firearm could not fire any real ammunition and only acorns and pebbles, which you'd get from either if you're using something like ExNihilo or by placing two leaf blocks in a crafting table (acorns) as a shapeless recipe, same for two pieces of dirt or cobble, and that in no means is a substitute at all for ExNih and wouldn't be registered in the forge dictionaray-abobber, and the acorns/pebbles would not be able to have modifiers slapped onto them. Also the wooden grade of firearm would break after a couple shots, and would require twice the amount of gunpowder to use, plus a long reloading/aiming time. Overall, it's for those who can't really afford to jump right into smithing their first few firearms but want to shoot dem things dead right.

-An infinity modifier. I guess mDiyo has a fair reason to not have one, but maybe this could be slapped onto vanilla TiC bows as well as Tinker's firearms? To be fair, that is a really powerful ability to be shooting an unlimited amount of arrows maxed out with quartz and blaze powder, the same for ammunition. So to even it out, you may have get out your milk and diamond gear, because here we go we need to go slaughter another Wither to steal it's core. The recipe would require a few steps too, expensive to boot. It would require four clocks coated with the pure, undistilled power of redstone blocks (which in turn would be four blocks of redstone around a clock, basically in reverse of a regular clock) to get Haywire Clocks. These on their own have no use, but mixing them with even more redstone blocks and the Nether Star would result in the Infinite Clock. Slapping that onto your bows or firearms get you the Infinite modifier. Oh oh almost forgot, if you do have the Infinite modifier, if you shoot an arrow/ammunition and it misses or hits the target, you won't be able to pick it up, to hopefully remove the risk of duplication bugs or cheating.
--To a further extent of this, maybe there could be a quiver/gun belt that would go in the knapsack slot? It most definitely wouldn't have it's own inventory. Heck, maybe not even a full nine slots but like six or seven. In this storage device, you could finally stack tinker's arrows (only of the same type combination down to the modifier) as well as your ammunition (same would apply to these) and pulling out a Tinker's bow or a Tinker's firearm would present you with a small bar on the top left-hand side (configurable in config perhaps?) that shows the ammunition you have in there to choose from. Plus it'd be neat to see the extra slots given by TiC even more usage than before.

-For musket shells and the smeltery business, I'd say one or two ingots-worth would result in 9 musket shells that cool all at once and you can pick up.

-Possibly some modifiers specifically for ammunition along with what arrows already have? Like chain (can't craft that into chainmail armor, sorry those wanting easy steel!) would make ammunition that results in immobilizing an enemy shot by them for a short time, or just a very strong slowness debuff, could be made with two ingots of iron in a shapeless recipe, and a few others sometime. And of course, not really necessary, but modifying ammunition with tnt causing minor terrain damage and a small aoe damage zone, with the size configurable with the amount of tnt slapped on up to four times maximum, could be fun -u-. Of course, to prevent server griefing, this could be disabled by default and an option in the configs could be there for it.

Aaand that's about it, hopefully you like those thoughts or whatever else these'd be.
 
Last edited:

ThatOneSlowking

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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This, if it becomes part of TiC or and addon, either way, could,be thebest gun mod in modded minecraft. It fits, is,balanced (without modifiers) and TiC tool crafting is awesome.
 

epidemia78

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think it would be cool if all monsters were modified to shoot projectiles. It is after all, a first person perspective game. Only then would guns not be OP. Combat is a chore in minecraft, but that could make it more fun.
 
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FastTquick

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
151
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Alright, so I also have been wanting an add-on for firearms in TiC style, to an extent that I'd try to make it myself or at least help the best I could, now here's my thoughts on this.
-Most of your ideas are nice! When I was thinking I was only considering like, one type of firearm, but three sounds alright too.

-Hm...since they ARE guns, I'd say since they're that primitive, they'd need at least some gunpowder to operate, alongside your ammunition. It'd be smart to keep a stack of that crap on you if you ever plan on getting into many fights.

-The firearms could have "Tiers" or grades, as well as a separate grade for ammunition. Meaning, it isn't exactly smart to be shooting fully decked-out manulynn ammunition in an iron gun, it tears the gun apart, literally and metaphorically, really killing durability.

-I thought that there could at least be a wooden grade of firearms, but they are mostly for desperate beginners that want to have a taste on what it's like to shoot some lead into the zombies that roam the night. The downside to this bashfulness of jumping right in is the fact that this grade of firearm could not fire any real ammunition and only acorns and pebbles, which you'd get from either if you're using something like ExNihilo or by placing two leaf blocks in a crafting table (acorns) as a shapeless recipe, same for two pieces of dirt or cobble, and that in no means is a substitute at all for ExNih and wouldn't be registered in the forge dictionaray-abobber, and the acorns/pebbles would not be able to have modifiers slapped onto them. Also the wooden grade of firearm would break after a couple shots, and would require twice the amount of gunpowder to use, plus a long reloading/aiming time. Overall, it's for those who can't really afford to jump right into smithing their first few firearms but want to shoot dem things dead right.

-An infinity modifier. I guess mDiyo has a fair reason to not have one, but maybe this could be slapped onto vanilla TiC bows as well as Tinker's firearms? To be fair, that is a really powerful ability to be shooting an unlimited amount of arrows maxed out with quartz and blaze powder, the same for ammunition. So to even it out, you may have get out your milk and diamond gear, because here we go we need to go slaughter another Wither to steal it's core. The recipe would require a few steps too, expensive to boot. It would require four clocks coated with the pure, undistilled power of redstone blocks (which in turn would be four blocks of redstone around a clock, basically in reverse of a regular clock) to get Haywire Clocks. These on their own have no use, but mixing them with even more redstone blocks and the Nether Star would result in the Infinite Clock. Slapping that onto your bows or firearms get you the Infinite modifier. Oh oh almost forgot, if you do have the Infinite modifier, if you shoot an arrow/ammunition and it misses or hits the target, you won't be able to pick it up, to hopefully remove the risk of duplication bugs or cheating.
--To a further extent of this, maybe there could be a quiver/gun belt that would go in the knapsack slot? It most definitely wouldn't have it's own inventory. Heck, maybe not even a full nine slots but like six or seven. In this storage device, you could finally stack tinker's arrows (only of the same type combination down to the modifier) as well as your ammunition (same would apply to these) and pulling out a Tinker's bow or a Tinker's firearm would present you with a small bar on the top left-hand side (configurable in config perhaps?) that shows the ammunition you have in there to choose from. Plus it'd be neat to see the extra slots given by TiC even more usage than before.

-For musket shells and the smeltery business, I'd say one or two ingots-worth would result in 9 musket shells that cool all at once and you can pick up.

-Possibly some modifiers specifically for ammunition along with what arrows already have? Like chain (can't craft that into chainmail armor, sorry those wanting easy steel!) would make ammunition that results in immobilizing an enemy shot by them for a short time, or just a very strong slowness debuff, could be made with two ingots of iron in a shapeless recipe, and a few others sometime. And of course, not really necessary, but modifying ammunition with tnt causing minor terrain damage and a small aoe damage zone, with the size configurable with the amount of tnt slapped on up to four times maximum, could be fun -u-. Of course, to prevent server griefing, this could be disabled by default and an option in the configs could be there for it.

Aaand that's about it, hopefully you like those thoughts or whatever else these'd be.

-I did mention that guns should be loaded with gunpowder as well as ammunition towards the end. How else can firearms shoot projectiles at high speed?

-I love that durability idea. I guess it will incentivise players to make a stronger and more durable gun before they make stronger ammo. I forgot to mention earlier that this ammo can be crafted by using a special tool to form bullets that I forgot the name of. Also, I intend for ammo to be formed out of materials that are easily disposable. I never took manyullyn bullets or something like that into consideration, but considering players could easily make manyullyn using a clever use of Minefactory Reloaded, I guess that'd be cool. I don't like the idea of modifiers for ammo though as it is intended to be disposable.

-I've never really heard of wooden firearms. It sounds like the wood would not be able to handle the pressures from igniting gunpowder and the gun itself would just explode after one use. Why would anyone want to make something like that? Also, my Tinker's Construct black powder firearms are intended to be more advanced than the bow and require the player to have made some progress and have a lot of material on hand before getting started.

-The infinity modifier sounds a bit risky. There's probably a reason that mDiyo hasn't implemented something like that in yet. In vanilla Tinker's Construct, the player can recover custom arrows after they have loosed them. Having an infinity modifier for bows and firearms could make it possible for players to duplicate custom arrows for no cost, making things rather unbalanced.
--I do like the ammo belt idea, but I think it should be a satchel instead that can hold only ammo and gunpowder and it should be on the knapsack slot like you suggested earlier.

-Like I said before, I'd like to see ammo crafted using a couple stone or metal ingots and a mold tool for bullets. If you want to make shot for your blunderbuss, you should have some way to crush the stone or metal into shards though some sort of means I haven't figured out.

-Like I said before, I don't like having modifiers on firearm ammo. Especially considering that firearms are pretty powerful as they are and it's practically impossible to recover ammo after shooting.

Thanks for the ideas, man. Cheers!
 

Sleepyscumbag

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Jul 29, 2019
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-I've never really heard of wooden firearms.
Me neither, but I can imagine one would resemble the firearms gremlins from Heroes of Might and Magic: V carry, just with wood instead of metal.
They would probably be low-powered and inaccurate, but at least you can fire the damn thing.
-The infinity modifier sounds a bit risky. There's probably a reason that mDiyo hasn't implemented something like that in yet. In vanilla Tinker's Construct, the player can recover custom arrows after they have loosed them. Having an infinity modifier for bows and firearms could make it possible for players to duplicate custom arrows for no cost, making things rather unbalanced.
Just make arrows (ammo) fired from a bow (or any other ranged weapon) with the infinity modifier impossible to pick up. Maybe nerf them a little with a damage penalty, something like that. There's no risk of losing your arrow after all.
-Like I said before, I'd like to see ammo crafted using a couple stone or metal ingots and a mold tool for bullets. If you want to make shot for your blunderbuss, you should have some way to crush the stone or metal into shards though some sort of means I haven't figured out
Use gravel. It's basically ground stone. Maybe make a new item called gravel piles (smaller version of gravel, like IC2 ore piles).
-Like I said before, I don't like having modifiers on firearm ammo. Especially considering that firearms are pretty powerful as they are and it's practically impossible to recover ammo after shooting.
Yup, pretty much. What would be cool, however, is if silver or golden bullets have smite on them, or cactus bullets have bleed.
 
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AlCapella

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think it would be cool if all monsters were modified to shoot projectiles. It is after all, a first person perspective game. Only then would guns not be OP. Combat is a chore in minecraft, but that could make it more fun.

I am a mobster (homonymically (sounding similar) by name at least), and I approve of this quote! ;)
 
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cobhalla

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think it would be cool if ammo by default had its own buffs depending on the type

Wood splinters and covers a large area with low damage projectiles

Iron flys farther

Cobalt is super accurate

Ardite causes fire 1

manylium gets 2x damage

Slime have slow1(green)
Slow 2(blue)

And like Sleepyscumbag said:
Gold and silver have smite
And cactus has splinter(which i guess would be like wood but with a higher dammage)


Come work for the CobbleCo
 

Frontrider

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Jul 29, 2019
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-There is a myth about us (magyars ( i've seen it this way in english text too, so i stick with it)) that we made wooden cannons.The mythbusters tested it out and its works. Should require metal, but just a few nuggets, maybe 3-4 planks and 2-3 nuggets.Low durablity, short range, but cheap.Stone bullets should be the best with them, metals use it up faster.

-No modifiers.
 

Revemohl

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Jul 29, 2019
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I don't think that would fit at all with the mod. In fact, guns themselves don't fit at all with Minecraft.
I wouldn't mind it that much if you made a separate modular firearm mod, though.
 

SynfulChaot

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Jul 29, 2019
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I love the idea of more firearms, especially 'primitive' ones of the black powder or revolver era, but I also think it'd probably be better as an add-on rather than integrated into TCon. TCon seems to fit closer to extending Vanilla, and firearms are a pretty far shot from that.