So, we have victory for victories sake then. We get to eliminate the need to actually work on our product (bugfixes). Alienate users (not dealing with "those members"). And have xenophobia that somehow prevents us from wanting only certain people to not play our mod. Two out of three of these are directly counter-intuitive to placing something freely on the internet for anyone to use in the first place. The first of them essentially amounts to not wanting to maintain the mod anymore, at which point shouldn't they just quit?
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So, we have victory for victories sake then. We get to eliminate the need to actually work on our product (bugfixes). Alienate users (not dealing with "those members"). And have xenophobia that somehow prevents us from wanting only certain people to not play our mod. Two out of three of these are directly counter-intuitive to placing something freely on the internet for anyone to use in the first place. The first of them essentially amounts to not wanting to maintain the mod anymore, at which point shouldn't they just quit?
I noticed it was an interesting double-edged sword that the mod devs are right about Mojang's position about their mods. I don't think at this stage anyone's seriously questioning that, and if they are they're silly.
What concerns me specifically, as I said, is that like any other company, Mojang can't write their own laws - they can only give to and take from their users and mod devs what they are allowed to by law, and the specifics will vary by country because of different laws in different countries.
Generally though, I aim for and prefer pragmatism, as I have argued elsewhere. Your position is at least consistent but I find it exceptionally counterproductive that we continue to support modders who are, frankly, getting so worked up about a hobby project they're not even paid for that they really should stop and take a break.
What concerns me specifically, as I said, is that like any other company, Mojang can't write their own laws - they can only give to and take from their users and mod devs what they are allowed to by law, and the specifics will vary by country because of different laws in different countries.
Generally though, I aim for and prefer pragmatism, as I have argued elsewhere. Your position is at least consistent but I find it exceptionally counterproductive that we continue to support modders who are, frankly, getting so worked up about a hobby project they're not even paid for that they really should stop and take a break.
Except that it is not a guide (I believe that is what you meant, not being snarky, I am just not sure) at all because it is Notch's (the head of the project at the time, no longer the head at this time) blog post about what he felt that the MineCraft team wanted to do. I don't see why anyone in their right mind would consider that in any way at all related to anything current, considering the official terms (http://minecraft.net/terms) exist, and the standards are already fairly widely set.
And seeing as how we're dealing with the legality here, I am not entirely sure why you keep trying to get away from that topic, especially after some of your previous posts who deal with the legality issue. Why, exactly, are you bringing up a blog post that has no bearing on the discussion of legality? Are you sidetracking to a moral (and thus entirely subjective, and as such worthless to try and discuss at length for obvious reasons) discussion?
I think you are incapable of understanding what I wrote...
This does not include: Modpacks that have the permission of developers, single download files directly from a mod's website, and private usage modpacks that are shared P2P...
It is nowhere near the community killer that you are claiming...
All I said was that the authority for mods is not very clear/well-written outside that it says on the official site. By definition on the site:
I would like to think that this extends as to the authority over distributing those plugins. As that's what you people are contesting, and it is not boldly written, it is not clearly defined. Hence why this thread exists...
I went through it point by point. I think you may have meant something other than what you wrote if you think I did not respond appropriately. Want to try again and explain what you actually meant?
No. What I said still stands. Mod developers (as far as anybody knows at this point) have the right to create AND DISTRIBUTE as they see fit. If you don't like how they distribute their mod...
Then write your own....
(course, for you Goons, you've already succeed at that, and I have no right to discourage you from doing so regardless of my viewpoints...)
Then write your own....
(course, for you Goons, you've already succeed at that, and I have no right to discourage you from doing so regardless of my viewpoints...)
You shouldn't assume that people who often agree with the Goons are actually Goons themselves.
I was actually referring to those that they identified that were both Goons and mod authors (King Lenning, Power Crystals, etc). That's only what that comment meant...[DOUBLEPOST=1362517777][/DOUBLEPOST]
Silly is subjective, much like your viewpoints. Don't think that simple forum manipulation will "win" you some superficial argument in a thread, as if to prevent somebody from doing something you don't like...
You are making statements that things exist which we can all see by direct evidence that they do not. You can talk about how the hinge looks like the gate is closed, or that there is a sign out front saying the gate is closed, but when people actually walk up to the gate it is wide open, and hundreds of people are walking through it as we speak. You can see these people streaming through the gate, you can see the hundreds of unauthorized mod packs on platform, you can see the failed DMCA efforts used on Plus+, but you still somehow insist that they do not exist.
Only because they disrespect the creators of the mods, and directly oppose their wishes. Those modpacks exist because Mojang has not set any rules to regulate mods in general, thus communities are left to fend for themselves in regards to distribution. Distribution is up to the mod author, but the mod author unfortunately has to fight to 'keep it'. The only argument I see out of you about that is that they shouldn't arm themselves in various ways, and that it's 'foolish' to 'make a fuss about it'. Sure, and you expect them to just give up their code into the swarming mass so that their name can be lost in the sea of obscurity...
Sounds more to me like a scam by those modpack owners to simply take what they want without question for their own purposes...
That's why you host a forum and wiki about your mod, you make the community interested in prereleases of your mod via videos, you get Let's Players involved to get the word out, and you generally be a part of the modding community as opposed to secret yourself, because in that case you are asking to be obscured. If a mod author has a problem with obscurity, they should thinking about becoming more active in the community (or possibly disappearing for months on end. That appears to work really well, likewise).
What has been suggested does not in any way solve this issue. Heck, forcing people to go to a mod author's MineCraft forum wouldn't solve the issue, so why would having a "List Of Mods/Authors/Link to Forum" page help at all?
First off, please drop the juvenile smaller font size when saying something that appears to be designed to be offensive as it does not really help continue the conversation.
Secondly, it sounds more like the users of MineCraft wanting easier access to mods, and not wanting to have to be stuck at the whims of mod authors who believe that they can legally limit such decisions. We've got the possibility of that being decided and, in all likelihood, the future of modified MineCraft as well coming up depending on how the ++pack plays out.
Let's hope that it does play out one way or another, because this thread is just a bunch of headbutting and bashing now because neither side is going to change their position.
I say that it is foolish, if we look at what happens when you enter into these futile arms races it is very clear. The mod author puts in a bunch of work, comes out looking worse in the eyes of the community, and the mod pack is unaffected. This is exactly the same fight that game makers are having with pirates right now. Legitimate customers either don't care, or are turned off by the drm. No one ever looks at intrusive DRM and likes a company more for it. In the end the pirates always beat the DRM though. In that situation they keep up the fight because they believe that even small delays to the pirates can result in a return on that investment. Here though there is no profits to be gained, the only currency is respect and recognition, and when it comes to respect and recognition a quality product will obtain it, every time, without fail, regardless of any mod packs. If you want to argue that they would be lost "in the sea of obscurity" then how is that any different than an authorized mod pack? All mod packs list included mods, authorized or not. There is also a mod button in game that lists all forge mods (almost all mods at this point). There is no extra risk of obscurity that comes from giving up these theoretical 'rights'. Mod authors have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by fighting this fight. They have lost, it is time to let it go.
You are not the one to decide that. And someone using piracy as a means to justify their stance doesn't leave much to stand on (no pun intended). Plus, this isn't like war, where you can simply kill the other side and 'win'. This fight can perpetuate for as long as mod authors have the will to fight...
(Or at least, until Mojang makes something more official in regards to mod plugins, lol)...
Of course I do, which is why I stopped posting in this thread for the most part as it's obvious that you fully and utterly believe your position is the correct position to take in this discussion.
Unlike you, though, I am fully willing to admit that my position is not that position. That is why I want this entire thing to play out for the legalities of it to be decided in a way that then gives us a proper decision.
What I don't understand, though, is why you appeared to agree with that point, and then continued to headbutt and bashed. Well, that is my lot in life (not understanding irrational actions), so it goes.
You assume too much... I never said my way was right, I simply did not yield my point of view...
And legal decisions are never 'right' decisions. They are merely decisions as dictated by a somewhat agreed upon law...
I was replied to and I simply gave the opposition a response. If you wish to stay out of it, then stop liking posts/replying in this thread...
Or you can continue your roundabout ways to seem benevolent in your opposition towards me (in some ill-gotten way of saying 'hey look, he's the real villain! see! see')...
Makes no difference to me in how you respond... if at all, that is...
Which ends up causing you to continue attempting to repeat the same argument over and over ad infinium. Your point of view is merely that: A point. It is subjective, and surely has errors as do all subjective artifacts.
You must have misunderstood, as I did not say "right", as that is a subjective word. I said "proper", which means "correct" or "satisfactory" in the context.
A legal deliberation will not be "right" to some people, and it'll be "right" to other people. But it will be, until it is overturned in the future (if it ever is), the correct decision which would give satisfaction to the legal disagreement in this debate, ergo the reason I used the term "proper" versus right.
I will like whatever post I wish to like (when they are posts that I, well, like), and I will post however I wish to like. Thank you very much, though, for your permission and borderline demand to do as I want within a specific range of actions.
You aren't a villain (even if you are fairly passive-aggressive, but that is only villainy if I need to interact with you without my own choice in the matter), and I doubt anyone is specifically "wrong" in this discussion. You just appear to be unwilling to agree with the people you are discussing with to the point that the discussion has looped around, and as such has passed the stage of critical failure into an argument.
Of course it does not. Thank you for pointing that out (in your seemingly standard passive-aggressive way), though, because while I already knew that there may have been someone that thought you were hanging on my every post. I'm glad we can lay their minds to rest!
I have no idea what you are talking about, but this seems like a fairly standard ploy to try and remove yourself from a conversation. So alright, have it your way.
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