Making Mystcraft Teleportation Less OP?

[Wolfie_Waffle]

The Mystcraft Forum seems to be broken, so I'll post this here...

THE PROBLEM:

There of course have been a lot of people saying Mystcraft is overpowered. That may be the case, but in most cases you can just disable ore symbols and whatnot. However, when making my modpack I noticed that while for the most part it could be balanced, the thing that could not be balanced was the teleportation system.

You can make a quick, almost instant way to get to another location by doing the following: create a linking book and a descriptive book. Both of these are quite cheap. Open the linking book where you want the destination to be, and then go where the start location will be. Open the descriptive book and enter the age. Open the linking book you brought with you (linked to your destination) and put in on a lectern/bookstand.

There! You now have a one-way (and you can add a way back as well) almost-instant trip to anywhere for the cost of some paper and ink. Great, right?

No. At least not for me. This completely undermines railcraft transport, which was supposed to be the least expensive form of transport, as well as qcraft portals and any other forms of transport. I really want to have Mystcraft, but I just can't have that sort of easy transport. So...

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

That's what I'm asking you! Does anybody have any ideas (using minetweaker, any other mods, etc.) to solve this?

My only two ideas were disabling linking books (so you can only get back with portals or star fissures) or using minetweaker to make all crafted linking books have the "relative" property.

But each of these has it's own problems. The linking book disable makes going into ages a huge giant thing requiring portals (which are supposed to be extremely expensive in my pack) or finding a star fissure page before you can even start. Relative allows you to link into peoples bases or accidentally spawn in the ground. It also kind of destroys the Myst "feel."

So does anyone have any ideas of how to make Mystcraft work better in a hardcore type modpack? Specifically the teleportation issue?

 

[immibis]

Disable crafting of link books entirely. Make an addon that gives you a link book out when you enter a Mystcraft dimension, and makes sure you can only use that link book inside that dimension.

 

[Golrith]

Use RFTools dimension system?

 

[Wolfie_Waffle]

Break the tools. Remember Riven. The world designed as a prison, designed to lack the essential nature that makes linking possible? How all the books where diseased and useless, or required massive effort to make them work at all.

No ink mixer. Make them craft ink by hand. Make relative the least expensive. The more useful the ink, the more expensive. Don't be afraid to make a following ink cost a block of nether stars. If there is a rare resource on the server that nobody has automated yet, require it.

Make the linking page be crafted from the specially flavored ink items and vellum. Not just paper but specially treated leather. The more complex and expensive the better. Nitor, a knife, and the hide at the least. Make it require a bottle of experiance, or a pure shard from thaumcraft, or both.



... Honestly? I'd remove mystcraft, and use RF Tools. Lock it down, make the teleportation items more expensive to craft, and just let that be the system. Mystcraft is wonderful, but it's hard to restrict and balance on servers.

Course, there's always a third option. Disable the crafting, disable players being able to make worlds at all. If they want a world, they bring a notebook to an OP, the op makes the world, goes in, sets up the return book, and if the world isn't what was wanted, it's promptly deleted and they have to start over on the notebook and pages again. With an option to have a world made to order from the admin book, for a resource cost.

One thing I forgot to mention is that this is not a server. This will be singleplayer - it is a custom modpack, so I can use Minetweaker or add any mod. Anyways, I do like some of these ideas. If I could, this is what I would do. The problem is, I don't know how well I could do this. Minetweaker is pretty powerful, but I don't think it has Mystcraft support. I think that Mystcraft could benefit from a more complex system, like in Riven as you said with the complicated ink and giant steam system. I still don't know how he figured it out so quick, but he IS Gehn. Anyways, if Mintweaker has Mystcraft support, this would make me so happy. But I don't think it does.

I could disable the ink mixer and use some other machine to make ink (maybe blood magic related?) and have the recipe create already-linked books, because I don't think the unlinked books have NBT, do they?

I would really like to use the Mystcraft ink mixer, because it fits in and looks cool, but for the sake of balance I might have to use other methods.

Finally, I am not going to use the RFTools mod. The dimension creation makes no sense in it's context, and I really like Myst. RFTools adds a ton of other stuff I don't want as well. I am trying to get Mystcraft to be less game-breaking.

Disable crafting of link books entirely. Make an addon that gives you a link book out when you enter a Mystcraft dimension, and makes sure you can only use that link book inside that dimension.

That would be great, but I can only make very basic mods, and how would I restrict the linking book usage to that dimension? Also, how would the linking book know where to link to?

Use RFTools dimension system?

See above.


Well, I think I'll try making books more complicated. If anyone has any other ideas, post them!

 

[Golrith]

One thing I forgot to mention is that this is not a server. This will be singleplayer - it is a custom modpack, so I can use Minetweaker or add any mod. Anyways, I do like some of these ideas. If I could, this is what I would do. The problem is, I don't know how well I could do this. Minetweaker is pretty powerful, but I don't think it has Mystcraft support. I think that Mystcraft could benefit from a more complex system, like in Riven as you said with the complicated ink and giant steam system. I still don't know how he figured it out so quick, but he IS Gehn. Anyways, if Mintweaker has Mystcraft support, this would make me so happy. But I don't think it does.

I could disable the ink mixer and use some other machine to make ink (maybe blood magic related?) and have the recipe create already-linked books, because I don't think the unlinked books have NBT, do they?

I would really like to use the Mystcraft ink mixer, because it fits in and looks cool, but for the sake of balance I might have to use other methods.

Finally, I am not going to use the RFTools mod. The dimension creation makes no sense in it's context, and I really like Myst. RFTools adds a ton of other stuff I don't want as well. I am trying to get Mystcraft to be less game-breaking.



That would be great, but I can only make very basic mods, and how would I restrict the linking book usage to that dimension? Also, how would the linking book know where to link to?



See above.


Well, I think I'll try making books more complicated. If anyone has any other ideas, post them!

Unfortunately there's not much you can do with Mystcraft and minetweaker. There's really only one key component in making anything in mystcraft, and that's the ink. So apart from changing the inks recipe, there's no much that can be done as I think there's even less options to tweak in current mystcraft compared to older versions, as much more of it is through it's own crafting tables/desks using paper, leather and ink.

I did consider making the ink require a mix of more expensive ingredients (depending on your modsetup). While this would balance linking books and random worlds, it has the negative effect of making custom worlds very expensive. Although I've rarely used custom worlds, the randoms have been pretty much "lucky" for me.

Good luck! Mystcraft "balance" has always been an issue, especially the linking books. So they so useful.

 

[Wolfie_Waffle]

Unfortunately there's not much you can do with Mystcraft and minetweaker. There's really only one key component in making anything in mystcraft, and that's the ink. So apart from changing the inks recipe, there's no much that can be done as I think there's even less options to tweak in current mystcraft compared to older versions, as much more of it is through it's own crafting tables/desks using paper, leather and ink.

I did consider making the ink require a mix of more expensive ingredients (depending on your modsetup). While this would balance linking books and random worlds, it has the negative effect of making custom worlds very expensive. Although I've rarely used custom worlds, the randoms have been pretty much "lucky" for me.

Good luck! Mystcraft "balance" has always been an issue, especially the linking books. So they so useful.

Wait, you said you considered changing the ink recipes, does this mean your one of the Mystcraft devs? Or did I read that wrong . Anyways Minetweaker support would be really great.

I don't necessarily think that the recipes would have to be super expensive, my main concern in the teleportation. You can easily just go anywhere for some ink and leather.

One idea that I had for it was that all books would default be relative (but then ICountFrom0 suggested it should just be cheaper, which I agree with) but it wouldn't be EXACTLY relative. Because one problem I had was that I would go into an age, walk to where an unsuspected mountain was in the overworld, and die because I spawned in a mountain. So it would basically be relative but spawn you on the topmost block, or to the safest place within a range. Linking back in the middle of a lava lake wouldn't save you, but linking close enough to the shore would.

One possibility for multiplayer would be a link disruptor, preventing you from linking into someones base. I don't really know if it's necessary, that's just a minor concern.

 

[Golrith]

Wait, you said you considered changing the ink recipes, does this mean your one of the Mystcraft devs? Or did I read that wrong . Anyways Minetweaker support would be really great.

I don't necessarily think that the recipes would have to be super expensive, my main concern in the teleportation. You can easily just go anywhere for some ink and leather.

One idea that I had for it was that all books would default be relative (but then ICountFrom0 suggested it should just be cheaper, which I agree with) but it wouldn't be EXACTLY relative. Because one problem I had was that I would go into an age, walk to where an unsuspected mountain was in the overworld, and die because I spawned in a mountain. So it would basically be relative but spawn you on the topmost block, or to the safest place within a range. Linking back in the middle of a lava lake wouldn't save you, but linking close enough to the shore would.

One possibility for multiplayer would be a link disruptor, preventing you from linking into someones base. I don't really know if it's necessary, that's just a minor concern.

No, not a dev. Just back when I looked at it, mystcraft ink was always just in bottles (no mixer at all), so was considering changing the ink bottle recipe with minetweaker.
I think you still craft ink bottles, but put them in a mixer to empty out now so that's all that can be changed. Paper and Leather is put into the book makers so those can't be changed.

 

[Bagman817]

One thing I forgot to mention is that this is not a server. This will be singleplayer

Wait, what? So, just don't use what you feel is OP. Seems a lot less trouble than messing with recipes and what have you.

 

[Wolfie_Waffle]

Wait, what? So, just don't use what you feel is OP. Seems a lot less trouble than messing with recipes and what have you.

I can't work like that. If I know I can abuse something, it bothers me. I need to be make it so I can't abuse it. I know it sounds weird but that's why I made this thread.

 

[immibis]

I can't work like that. If I know I can abuse something, it bothers me. I need to be make it so I can't abuse it. I know it sounds weird but that's why I made this thread.

Just make sure to write down the rules somewhere. E.g. "Linking books may only be used to get out of a Mystcraft dimension, and they must link to the place I came in from."

 

[Wolfie_Waffle]

Just make sure to write down the rules somewhere. E.g. "Linking books may only be used to get out of a Mystcraft dimension, and they must link to the place I came in from."

Well, yes, that would be ideal. But as I said already, I'm weird and I need it to not just be a written rule. If I could code an addon for Mystcraft, this is exactly what I'd make. You would link each linking book to a descriptive book, and only that book would work in that age, bringing you back to the overworld. But I'm starting to like ICountFrom0's idea of hand-making the ink and making relative link cheaper. Relative link can be abused in certain situations, like to go through walls or invisibly going to any location (by going there in the age and linking back). But I think that's a minor concern, and I think that unless anybody can provide a better solution, I'm sticking with that.

Thanks everyone, I'll probably come back here if I run into any more problems.

 

[GreenZombie]

Disable crafting of link books entirely. Make an addon that gives you a link book out when you enter a Mystcraft dimension, and makes sure you can only use that link book inside that dimension.

Couldn't you create a single link book that was pre-linked to a defined overworld location. And then, I don't know - hide the book but put a command block that can create infinite clones of said book.

 

[keybounce]

Yes, mystcraft TP is OP. No question.

You can disable the writing desk, and require found symbols instead of duplicating them, and that solves the major abuse concerns. (Significantly increase the booster pack rate in library chests, to compensate. That requires a lootchest mod.)

There were add-ons in the past that could tame the teleportation, but they are not current.

Minetweaker can change the recipe for the book binder, so you can gate mystcraft access to later; you can change the recipe for the L-book, so getting the books needed to make the teleportation link can be made very expensive.

Other than that, I think Xcw is planning to address this concern in two more programming arcs (book quality comes earlier, I think).

All I can say is, as someone who has also observed the same issue, we _did_ play with restrictions of "only permitting books to be used back at the spawn point/cobble platform", so player restrictions can work.