Is "discovering" fun?

[DZCreeper]

I personally like the cross that Gregtech is taking in the recent versions, you still get the feelings of discovery, but there is a chance the chest loot from dungeons and other such world gen is a manual. There are a couple manuals and they explain how shit in that mod works. So you get the discovery feeling, but not having those manuals won't kill your gameplay like Thaumcraft research does.
Discovering is fun, but it shouldn't be the only way to move forward, much like the manuals are just an shortcut or a replacement for the online wiki. Playing any mod should not turn into a full time job that you need to devote 3 hours a day to progress in.

 

[Golrith]

At the very least in TC3 you should have the option to pick what you are trying to research. That would help no end.

My first TC3 playthrough, I was trying to get golems. Ended up going through everything else that had Motus(?? - Animation one) before RNG gave me the golems I wanted. Trying to work out Theory of Everything (which isn't everything, and includes aspects not commonly used) was a pain.

 

[Dravarden]

I love the thaumcraft research, the first time was fun, specially with my friend, he had some researches I didn't have and vice versa, we just helped each other, the second time was a speed run, and now that I will add thaumic tinkerer to my thaumcraft server its twice the fun!

 

[PhilHibbs]

Get some tropicals running for the silky propolis which you run through the squeezer again for a chance of normal propolis and then make yourself some apiarist pipes to automate the production... At basic level you want to have tropicals running for propolis for more apiarist pipes...

Tropicals, eh? Thanks. I think I have one tropical princess. I guess you find those in jungles?

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Yes. Just plain "jungle"s, as opposed to "extreme jungle"s or any other variants, best I can make out.

However, squeezing regular honey drops (which come from most sorts of combs) also provides a chance of giving you a normal propolis. The industrious branch of bees (which are one of the earliest ones you want to breed towards) give stringy combs which always give a propolis (... but never anything else) so you'll eventually be swimming in the things anyways.

A propolis can be centrifuged further to get resin. You'll be swimming in rubber, too.

 

[PhilHibbs]

However, squeezing regular honey drops (which come from most sorts of combs) also provides a chance of giving you a normal propolis.

Oh, I didn't know you could squeeze honey drops, I've just been feedig them to my Beealyzer and Treealyzer, but actually I need all the honey drops I can get just for that anyway. I've got two production aviaries (meadows) with impregnated frames and two breeding aviares with chocolate frames.

The industrious branch of bees (which are one of the earliest ones you want to breed towards) give stringy combs which always give a propolis (... but never anything else) so you'll eventually be swimming in the things anyways.

Looks like I need to do some reading 'cos I've no idea which way is "towards" industrious.

Well, actually I need to fix my world first, 'cos I get disconnected every time I try to log in now...

 

[Golrith]

I'm with you Phil. Just got a cultivated and common species stabilised (I hope), and by pure luck I may have a noble species. I bred 2 drone hybrids with Noble, and have managed to finally get a Noble Princess. Just need to breed it a few more times to fix. Had my first Dripping Comb that produced some HoneyDew (that I have no use for!).
As an experiment, I mixed a rocky with a cultivated, and I think I now have a nocturnal, highly tolerant bee species now. If it stablises then it might be my source of constant honey at this point.

But the main problem with bees is that it doesn't really tell you what you can get from bee breeding. Of course, could always do a system like the Yogs, which just randomly cycles drones and princesses together, and gradually pick out the best bees out of the mess.


I think it's only a 5% chance to get propolis from honey drops, so you'll need a lot to be able to start any decent automation.

I'e got seven apiaries just producing mundane world gen drones and honey, 3 that I'm breeding my common, noble and cultivated, and one last apiary that is my experimental setup.

I guess the next thing for me to do is see what happens when I mix common+noble and noble+cultivated. I'm trying to avoid looking at Wikis at this point.

 

[PhilHibbs]

If I start cross-breeding with Rocky bees, is there a chance that I will be able to gain the nocturnal/flyer traits but also keep the species I have (e.g. Meadows, Forest, Cultivated etc.)?

 

[Ako_the_Builder]

It's not fair to compare Thaumcraft to a technology mod. Different modders have different opinions on what should be easy and what should be possible, Arcane Ear is awesomely cool even though I can't think of a single use for it.

You've got to remember that thaumcraft could be used as a stand alone mod which would make the ear more important as it is a kind of wirelesss redstone.

As for FTB uses, I use it (along with a rp2 state cell) to power down my arcane elevator so I can go up/down the same space (using an arcane plate and a noteblock at the top). This could of course be done with wireless redstone but I did it the thaumcraft way just because.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Honey dew can be treated the same as honey drops; works in the squeezer, works in the beealyser. Only difference is that it doesn't give propolises when squeezed, but trust me, that's no loss. Oh, and since it has a 100% chance of being centrifuged from every dripping comb, you're going to want to keep those bees from the noble branch in production pretty much forever.

Remember that apiarist pipes have six sides, and can hence handle automation of more then one apiary (so long as they're not all of the same race).

Yes, breeding with rocky bees may give you their great traits while keeping your desired species. It may also give you rocky bees that're no longer immune to night/rain. Luck of the draw. Oh, and as soon as you mutate your bees to a new species you'll lose those traits anyway. Unless you've got a lot of the things (and a lot of tolerance for pain), I recommend waiting until you've reached the end of the noble line - the imperial bees waiting for you there give the magic ingredient for the advanced genetic machines that'll solve all your trait-related problems.

You can find the breeding paths here. Getting back on topic, no, you don't want to work them all out for yourself; it'd take longer then the average server lifetime. As an example, there are two species of bee that're found at random from any hive (and rarely in dungeon chests); they can be bred together to get a third species, but... only if you're trying to mutate them in a forest biome. Doesn't work anywhere else. No, there are no clues in the game about this requirement, and other bees have similar rules.

Getting imperial and then industrious bees is the first milestone for any budding bee keeper. Working out how to get them without a wiki is viable, but I don't recommend trying to progress past them without one.

 

[Golrith]

Just looked at the wiki compiled by MilConDoin, just looked at the bees I currently have, and what they can mutate into. That's usual information. I wish the analyzer showed that sort of information. It's mutation tab isn't really that helpful. At least then you'd know what to crossbreed, and then discover what they produce and mutate further into.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

The apiarist databank's interface is somewhat of an improvement over the beealyser, especially in regards to mutations. You could also make an apiarist database (the handheld version), but I prefer the convenience of a block to something that clogs inventory space.

Be warned that the databank shows you the base traits for each species of bee, which might not be the traits you end up with when you actually get that species (as sometimes the parent traits leak through and override them). Always refer to the databank with each new mutation so you know what you "could've" got, don't just rely on the beealyser to tell you "everything".

There is a "master" version of the apiarist database that shows all mutations (even before you've got them), but it can only be accessed by cheating.

 

[connerity1]

is listed on the neesirojgaming bee wiki

google does not help me in finding this, point me to it please?

 

[Golrith]

The apiarist databank's interface is somewhat of an improvement over the beealyser, especially in regards to mutations. You could also make an apiarist database (the handheld version), but I prefer the convenience of a block to something that clogs inventory space.

Be warned that the databank shows you the base traits for each species of bee, which might not be the traits you end up with when you actually get that species (as sometimes the parent traits leak through and override them). Always refer to the databank with each new mutation so you know what you "could've" got, don't just rely on the beealyser to tell you "everything".

There is a "master" version of the apiarist database that shows all mutations (even before you've got them), but it can only be accessed by cheating.

Thanks. I'll check out the databank. Tonight I have plans to build some tanks for liquid honey and future DNA, so databank will be perfect to add to my setup as I'm working on that area.

 

[Ako_the_Builder]

google does not help me in finding this, point me to it please?

http://mc.nessirojgaming.eu/bees/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[Dravarden]

or you can just create a new test world and place the flora-in-a-box apiary database and go party with it

 

[Dreossk]

I don't think there is fun in discovering in Thaumcraft. You waste so much resources to search for something that everyone will check the recipe on the wiki to know what to search for so there is no discovery really. After that, it's not fun either because even in thorough mode, you still progress very slowly and it can take one stack of an item to finish a research and you feel like you are wasting so much it's just infuriating. I didn't try the bees yet so I can't speak about that.

 

[PonyKuu]

But on the other hand, all the mods have fixed recipes. In Thaumcraft noone knows how much resources you will need to discover the thing and actually make it. That might be interesting.

 

[PhilHibbs]

...because even in thorough mode, you still progress very slowly and it can take one stack of an item to finish a research and you feel like you are wasting so much it's just infuriating.

I burned up over a hundred pairs of leather boots trying to research one thing... I think it was golem armor plating. Damn icon just kept on not moving. That's on top of all the bronze armour I'd already thrown in.

 

[Golrith]

But on a plus, you can also make use of resources you don't normally have much use for (such as XY craft....) and since it's aspect based, you are not fixed to gathering one type of resource. There's only a few aspects that are limited, but thankfully you'll hardly need them.

I think a side effect of the goggles and the clothing is the increased chance of obscured aspects being revealed as you research. That would help reduce the "pain" of TC3 research.[DOUBLEPOST=1369055170][/DOUBLEPOST]

I burned up over a hundred pairs of leather boots trying to research one thing... I think it was golem armor plating. Damn icon just kept on not moving. That's on top of all the bronze armour I'd already thrown in.

Yeah, there's a few annoying recipes like that.