Institutional Hypocrisy: FtB's role in infringing Mojang's copyright.

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Zmaster27

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Jul 29, 2019
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so it seems, lets hope some jealous tekkit fanboy doesnt kill FTB off ><

EDIT: I know it would be copyright laws that would kill this off, but i dont think theres much to worry about as Minecon had a freaking Modding Panel. Isnt Minecon run by Mojang anyway? If thats true, and its very likely that it is, then it makes it clear that Mojang actually wants modders.
 

Daemonblue

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Jul 29, 2019
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From my understanding of copyright law, by Mojang not taking actions against mods they have given implicit approval to modify their game. Another thing to note, making a mod that adds onto the code of a game and distributing that is incredibly different from distributing the code of the game. In a way, it's similar to how copyrights for translations are dealt with. For example, let's say that there is a novel written in, say, Spanish. The company that holds the copyright for that novel can either translate it themselves into English, or give the publishing rights to another company to publish it in English. Now, let's say there is are two companies given English publishing rights, one for EU and one for NA. Unless they get permission from each other, they can't use each other's exact translations, as each company holds a copyright to publish their own translations. This is partially why, in the case of anime and manga, it's considered a taboo to use a translation done by a scanlation team (one of the others being they're supposed to be higher quality, so why are they copying them).

Also, Mojang has already announced plans to implement a modding API sometime in the future, giving further implicit approval for people to mod their game, as there would be no point in adding such an API at all if people weren't allowed to use it.

The reason why Tekkit is looked down upon by so many people has to deal with the translation part of my example above. The publisher, Mojang, is giving implicit approval for other "companies," i.e. devs such as those for IC2 and Eloraam, to modify their code, as long as they don't distribute the core coding for the game. This gives the mod makers the publishing rights of their own mods which they can defer to other parties at will. With Tekkit, they don't get permission or, in some cases , are downright refused permission from the mod devs. To tie this in with the example, they're effectively publishing a translation of a work without the translator's permission.
 

upsbud

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Jul 29, 2019
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I remember the good ol' days, back before I had any financial responsibility or deadlines to meet. It was a time where all my peers cared about one thing..having fun. Whether it was playing NES, building tree forts, or flying around with capes, we cared not what people thought about us. I'm gonna be thirty next year and I find that my peers today are quite boring and start threads such as this. Oh the good ol' days....
 
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Pariah

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Jul 29, 2019
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For those who are interested:

This thread was originally closed by Jadedcat claiming that I was trolling without explanation. I then started a private conversation with her and Slowpoke. Unfortunately I cannot copy-paste the conversation directly, as it is considered private and thus would breach privacy ethics. I will however paraphrase:

-Slowpoke posted a message saying he was talking to Mojang regarding clarification.

-Slowpoke posted a follow-up stating that Mojang requested 10 examples of specific misuse of textures in FtB to validate my claim.

-I posted this message: http://pastebin.com/XTwTMH1t which details around 100 specific instances in Industrialcraft 2 alone.

-Slowpoke reopened this thread and posted that they will now follow Mojang's guidelines and copyright law.

In otherwords, this thread has been fully successful in bringing this serious issue to Slowpoke's attention and resulted in action. I will not respond to counterarguments in this thread, as they have all be proven unfounded.

After Feed the Beast corrects their mistakes, I will be able to happily support it :)

Remember, this does not effect the status of mods themselves, which are explicitly allowed by Mojang:

We are also quite relaxed about other non-commercial things so feel free to create and share videos, screen shots, independently created mods (that don't use Minecraft Assets), fan art, machinima, and more on YouTube etc;

From https://minecraft.net/brand

Do however note that mods that use Minecraft assets (which includes textures) is explicitly disallowed, which was the reason for this thread :)
 

Rikki21

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Jul 29, 2019
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Then wouldn't it be the mods themselves using the similar textures and not FTB that are infringing copyright?

Why not post this to the mods themselves? :eek:
 

ramdor

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Jul 29, 2019
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I would guess that Mojang look the other way when modders write something FOR minecraft and they use a texture. If xyz company was to rip all the textures and develop a rival game, then they would have something to say about it I am sure.

Edit: so if mojang clamp down on modders after your quest, and for example, the industrial craft guys can't be bothered to change them and stop IC2 development, what will you think then? Extreme I know, but it could happen.
 

arkangyl

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Jul 29, 2019
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This has zero to do with FTB, frankly. We didn't make the mods who are using the retextured assets, and we don't own or police the rights to begin with. Tell Mojang if you have that petty of a life. It's their stuff. If they pursue it, they'll contact the mod makers. If they don't, which they won't, then that's their prerogative.
 

Pariah

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Jul 29, 2019
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Then wouldn't it be the mods themselves using the similar textures and not FTB that are infringing copyright?

Why not post this to the mods themselves? :eek:

FtB distributes the mods: the point of violation is in the distribution. Also, addressing FtB (the major mod pack currently) gives promise of meaningful mod community change because 1) the FtB team works with the modders themselves 2) The FtB team cares about IP rights. This efficacy has already been demonstrated :)

This has zero to do with FTB, frankly. We didn't make the mods who are using the retextured assets, and we don't own or police the rights to begin with. Tell Mojang if you have that petty of a life. It's their stuff. If they pursue it, they'll contact the mod makers. If they don't, which they won't, then that's their prerogative.

As noted above, the "making" is not the problem, it's distribution that's the problem. Thus it is very relevant to FtB which is in essence a distribution platform.
 

CrafterOfMines57

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Jul 29, 2019
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I will not respond to counterarguments in this thread, as they have all be proven unfounded.
Here's a counter argument that you haven't covered yet, who the hell cares? Are mod makers taking money away from Mojang by modifying their textures? No, therefore who is being harmed by mods using re-skinned vanilla blocks? Restated in more general terms, if person A makes a work of art, and person B sees it and makes a copy with a few changed details, but you can only see person B's artwork if you pay to see person A's artwork first, is there anything wrong with that, or is anyone losing out on money by this occurring?
 

OmegaPython

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Jul 29, 2019
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Here's a counter argument that you haven't covered yet, who the hell cares? Are mod makers taking money away from Mojang by modifying their textures? No, therefore who is being harmed by mods using re-skinned vanilla blocks? Restated in more general terms, if person A makes a work of art, and person B sees it and makes a copy with a few changed details, but you can only see person B's artwork if you pay to see person A's artwork first, is there anything wrong with that, or is anyone losing out on money by this occurring?
To add on to this, people care that Technic & Tekkit haven't got permissions. But no one (except you) cares about the finer points of Mojang's terms that prevent many of these mods.
 

Jadedcat

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Jul 29, 2019
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To clarify something for members. Locking a thread is not the same as censoring. If I or any FTB moderator wished to censor the thread it would have been deleted. And even then it is just hidden from public view and can be restored if needed. Locking the thread was done so the appropriate people could be contacted prior to the thread devolving into a flame war and being rendered useless. I called you a troll because you added people to the conversation in the private message that had nothing to do with the actual conversation , problem or solution. Occasionally a thread like this comes along that while it might have a valid point still qualifies as flame bait not because of the original author's intent but because of the response it may receive. And the moderating headache it generates.

To reiterate this thread was not locked for trolling it was locked as flame bait which is not the same thing at all.
 

Decirium

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Jul 29, 2019
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Here's a counter argument that you haven't covered yet, who the hell cares? Are mod makers taking money away from Mojang by modifying their textures? No, therefore who is being harmed by mods using re-skinned vanilla blocks? Restated in more general terms, if person A makes a work of art, and person B sees it and makes a copy with a few changed details, but you can only see person B's artwork if you pay to see person A's artwork first, is there anything wrong with that, or is anyone losing out on money by this occurring?
That's not really a valid counterargument either as it doesn't change the original facts Pariah is getting at. The advantages to Mojang of having a popular modpack helping make more sales isn't an issue, that the modpack contains mods that infringe the brand/terms of Minecraft content is the issue. Now for me, the ethics from what you are saying mean I have no issue using the FTB packs (it doesn't harm Minecraft or Mojang) but for Pariah it's against their ethics enough to dislike the idea of using the packs. I can respect that but personally I wouldn't let that affect my enjoyment of FTB.
 

Ldog

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Jul 29, 2019
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Here's a counter argument that you haven't covered yet, who the hell cares? Are mod makers taking money away from Mojang by modifying their textures? No, therefore who is being harmed by mods using re-skinned vanilla blocks? Restated in more general terms, if person A makes a work of art, and person B sees it and makes a copy with a few changed details, but you can only see person B's artwork if you pay to see person A's artwork first, is there anything wrong with that, or is anyone losing out on money by this occurring?

Who cares? The same people who care so much about protecting the modders ip but not Mojang's (personally I dont care either, but I think it hypocritical the way some modders and fanbois care only about the 1st but not the 2nd).
That was the point of this thread, which I get, but it doesn't matter if you or I get it, the people at FTB who do matter understood so Pariah made his point.
It also shows Slowpoke and crew ARE more than just talk when it comes to their ethics. An actual issue was brought up and they are dealing with it.
 

CrafterOfMines57

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Jul 29, 2019
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Who cares? The same people who care so much about protecting the modders ip but not Mojang's (personally I dont care either, but I think it hypocritical the way some modders and fanbois care only about the 1st but not the 2nd).
That was the point of this thread, which I get, but it doesn't matter if you or I get it, the people at FTB who do matter understood so Pariah made his point.
It also shows Slowpoke and crew ARE more than just talk when it comes to their ethics. An actual issue was brought up and they are dealing with it.
I guess you're right, I just don't get the point of this thread, if Mojang actually did care about this, I just think somebody who "does matter" would have received some notification about it by now, and I won't see the point of this thread until such time as Greg/Alblaka/some other mod maker that "steals" textures finds a cease and desist order headed their way, at which point I will declare Pariah to be a genius for foreseeing this.
 

Dackstrus

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Jul 29, 2019
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Do however note that mods that use Minecraft assets (which includes textures) is explicitly disallowed, which was the reason for this thread :)

Your one of those guys that drives 20 miles under the speed limit just to be on the safe side are'nt you?

I hear your kind is loved in politics. Just stay out of writing policies, I have a feeling you would do great harm to the world if allowed.
 
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Spacevagrant

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Jul 29, 2019
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First I wold like to apologize to the OP for doubting his intention and arguments in my post on page 1. Second I would wonder what does this mean for FTB going forward? Will all mods that use textures from Minecraft in some form be removed from the packs and if so what would be left?
 
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